What "East Turkestan"? It called xinjiang, China!

maomao

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But what about slave people of Tibet, Uigurs and Mangols etc....who have been repressed for ages in China by Han/PLA/CCP?

I am sure, all these cosmetic development which is nothing but Ghost towns, hidden debt, cooked books et al, does not represent majority people such Slum dwellers of Shanghai who live outside the main City and only move in and out of Shanghai to do cheap exploitive labor!! I am sure they would love to reveal the truth about CCP and the freedoms and rights Chinese Elites and Slaves enjoy!!
 
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maomao

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delete........................................................................................
 

amoy

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"the notion of an imminent terrorist threat in Xinjiang or from Uyghur groups is exaggerated"2.
the ETIM is a viable organization" with a more analytical and critical eye.

that reminds me of EU and the US's condemnation of Russia's "oppression" in Chechenia. In their doublespeak actually there're 'good' terrorists and 'bad' terrorists depending on who they're attacking? then 911 must have been a fiction!

Regardless of your opinion about this ETIM thing, pls bear below FACTS in mind
1) Xinjiang is consisting of many ethnic group. Uigur is but a minority mostly in S. Xinjiang
2) Even in a 'free' France there're such suppression and denial of freedom as below
French senate approves burqa banBURQA
A woman wearing a niqab veil participates in a protest against a ban earlier this year in Tours, central France.The French senate approved Tuesday a law banning any veils that cover the face -- including the burqa, the full-body covering worn by some Muslim women -- making France the first European country to plan such a measure.

The law passed by a vote of 246 to 1, with about 100 abstentions coming essentially from left-leaning politicians.

The legislation was overwhelmingly approved by the lower house of parliament in July and will go into effect next spring.

French people back the ban by a margin of more than four to one, the Pew Global Attitudes Project found in a survey earlier this year.
French MPs vote to ban Islamic full veil in public The bill envisages fines of 150 euros for women wearing the full veil Continue reading the main story
Related stories
Making veil-wearers criminals Should France ban the full veil? Behind France's Islamic veil France's lower house of parliament has overwhelmingly approved a bill that would ban wearing the Islamic full veil in public.

There were 335 votes for the bill and only one against in the 557-seat National Assembly.

It must now be ratified by the Senate in September to become law.

The ban has strong public support but critics point out that only a tiny minority of French Muslims wear the full veil.

Many of the opposition Socialists, who originally wanted the ban limited only to public buildings, abstained from voting after coming under pressure from feminist supporters of the bill.

President Nicolas Sarkozy has backed the ban as part of a wider debate on French identity but critics say the government is pandering to far-right voters.

Continue reading the main story Muslim headscarves
The word hijab comes from the Arabic for veil and is used to describe the headscarves worn by Muslim women. These scarves come in myriad styles and colours. The type most commonly worn in the West is a square scarf that covers the head and neck but leaves the face clear. The niqab is a veil for the face that leaves the area around the eyes clear. However, it may be worn with a separate eye veil. It is worn with an accompanying headscarf. The burka is the most concealing of all Islamic veils. It covers the entire face and body, leaving just a mesh screen to see through. The al-amira is a two-piece veil. It consists of a close fitting cap, usually made from cotton or polyester, and an accompanying tube-like scarf. The shayla is a long, rectangular scarf popular in the Gulf region. It is wrapped around the head and tucked or pinned in place at the shoulders. The khimar is a long, cape-like veil that hangs down to just above the waist. It covers the hair, neck and shoulders completely, but leaves the face clear. The chador, worn by many Iranian women when outside the house, is a full-body cloak. It is often accompanied by a smaller headscarf underneath. BACK 1 of 7 NEXT
After the vote, Justice Minister Michele Alliot-Marie said it was a victory for democracy and for French values.

"Values of freedom against all the oppressions which try to humiliate individuals; values of equality between men and women, against those who push for inequality and injustice."

The vote is being closely watched in other countries, the BBC's Christian Fraser reports from the French capital Paris.

Spain and Belgium are debating similar legislation, and with such large-scale immigration in the past 20 or 30 years, identity has become a popular theme across Europe, our correspondent says.

'Open-faced democracy'

The bill would make it illegal to wear garments such as the niqab or burka, which incorporate a full-face veil, anywhere in public.

It envisages fines of 150 euros (£119) for women who break the law and 30,000 euros and a one-year jail term for men who force their wives to wear the burka.

The niqab and burka are widely seen in France as threats to women's rights and the secular nature of the state.

Continue reading the main story
"
Start Quote
Democracy thrives when it is open-faced"
End Quote
Michele Alliot-Marie

French justice minister

Should France ban the full veil? Hewitt: Criminalising veil-wearers "Democracy thrives when it is open-faced," Ms Alliot-Marie told the National Assembly when she presented the bill last week.

She stressed the bill, which makes no reference to Islam or veils, was not aimed at "stigmatising or singling out a religion".

Berengere Poletti, an MP from Mr Sarkozy's centre-right UMP party, said women in full veils wore "a sign of alienation on their faces" and had to be "liberated".

Andre Gerin of the Communist opposition compared the veil to "a walking coffin, a muzzle".

'Fear of foreigners'
The bill is also seen as a touchstone for the Sarkozy administration's policy of integration. It is grappling with disaffected immigrant communities as it seeks to prevent a repeat of the mass unrest of 2005 on run-down French housing estates.

Continue reading the main story
PATH TO VEIL BAN
Ratification: Becomes law if passed by Senate in September Review: French Constitutional Council studies new law once it is ratified Introduction: Takes effect six months after ratification Ruling: Challenge possible through the European Court of Human Rights in Strasbourg Face-veil driver fined in France But critics point to government studies showing that many women do not fit the stereotype of marginalised, oppressed women.

There are estimated to be only about 2,000 women wearing the full veil in France though the bill is opposed by many of France's five million Muslims.

Mohammed Moussaoui, the head of the French Council of the Muslim Faith, a government advisory body, has supported taking steps to discourage women from wearing the full veil but has said a legal ban would stigmatise a vulnerable group.
AdvertisementJean-François Copé, Leader of the UMP party explains why he thinks the House voted in favour of the ban
Jean Glavany, a Socialist MP, said he opposed the ban on the grounds that it was "nothing more than the fear of those who are different, who come from abroad, who aren't like us, who don't share our values".

The Council of State, France's highest administrative body, warned in March that the law could be found unconstitutional.

If the bill passes the Senate in September, it will be sent immediately to France's Constitutional Council watchdog for a ruling.

Another challenge is possible at the European Court of Human Rights in Strasbourg, where decisions are binding.

In another development, a French businessman, Rachid Nekkaz, said he would set up a 1m-euro fund to help women pay fines imposed under the new law.

A ban in the street would violate constitutional principles, he argued.
Armand = In Guangzhou there're tens of thousands of foreigners and minority Muslims. Nobody denies their rights like wearing Burqa or Veils. As u admit Chinese treat foreigners like u quite well!
 

maomao

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What Burkha ban has to do with Mass Murder and Genocide conducted by Han Chinese, CCP, PLA on ethnic minorities and Slave people of China?

I would have loved if CCP would have Baned Burkha instead of killing millions of innocent people!!
 
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Armand2REP

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Armand = In Guangzhou there're tens of thousands of foreigners and minority Muslims. Nobody denies their rights like wearing Burqa or Veils. As u admit Chinese treat foreigners like u quite well!
That is funny that you bring that up. My flatmates are a Muslim couple, guy is Arab and his girlfriend from Tajikistan. She wants to wear her hijab on the street but it draws too much attention to her. She only wears it at Friday prayers because Chinese find it too offencive to wear in public. It is social castigation that prevents it rather than the law, but it is just as bad.
 

niharjhatn

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If you want label a communist label on China, then I can label a untouchable label on India.
Do you simply believe India has better human rights than China? lol
LOL, even though China too had a caste system in the past.

India has taken solid steps to helping these people of Scheduled castes and scheduled tribes - firstly by recognizing they exist, and implementing measures such as the quota system, which although not necessarily the best for advancing our economy, is helping break down old barriers such as that.

What has china done to minority groups in China? Championed their rights?

LOL at comparing human rights of China and India. If I don't like what the government does, I can at least vote against it!!

Please post with some self-dignity in mind, rather than a one-eyed "50 cent"er.
 

Ray

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If you want label a communist label on China, then I can label a untouchable label on India.
Do you simply believe India has better human rights than China? lol
Sure you can label what you want.

Has India denied it or has to pretended that it never existed?

Yet, there is a concerted effort to wipe it out and there is a whole lot of measures taken by law, wherein what you may like to term 'as lowest of the low' castes are holding highest of the high offices in the government and in politics.

Take Mayawati and the last to last President.

Take China, in comparison. They still claim to be Communist. They follow Communist repression for their safety in internal affairs and on the other hand, they follow their hated icon - the US in so far as economy is concerned!!

Human Rights are better than China , sure!

Even terrorists are given a fair trial.

Heard of Kasab?

He will get a whole lot of chances to appeal to higher courts and finally to the President.

There is NO instant execution as in China.

Now, compare it with the 'instant' execution of the Uighurs and others.

I love this 'LOL' used by you.

Remember, he who laughs last, laughs best!
 
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Ray

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You must forget China also claims South Tibet, which makes it a disputed land. So from Chinese perspetive, it should be called South Tibet.

In the case of xinjiang, is there any country that doesn't acknowledge Chinese sovereignty over it? Does India have any problem with Xinjiang being part of China? If not, what is the point of insinuating that Xinjing is an independent country by calling it "East Turkestan", while your own government denies that.

No one is depriving you of your speech freedom, all we are asking for is your due respect for your government's official stance. The day your government starts calling it "East Turkestan" and questioning Chinese sovereignty over Xinjiang, you are free to call it whatever you want, and I will shut myself up.
Good point.

Do you mind if we claim the Henan Province since the Shaolin Temple was established by a Buddhist monk from India named Buddhabhadra, or Ba Tuo in Chinese, who came to China during Emperor Xiaowen's reign during the Northern Wei Dynasty period in 495AD? Therefore, we can also say that Henan is a disputed territory too!

That much for South Tibet!

The Indian Govt may have its own views, but it does not mean that it is an universal view.

That is the difference between Communism and democracy!

Freedom of Thought and Choice.

None can bamboozle us while it will be kosher in China to toe the Govt line or be in the state of Liu Xiaobo or be sent to jail (re-education as so cutely phrased in China to avoid the stigma on the repressive policies).
 
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Ray

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In so far as caste system is concerned the undermentioned says it all:

The Southern and Northern Dynasties showed such a high level of polarization between North and South that northerners and southerners referred to each other as barbarians. The Mongol Yuan Dynasty also made use of the concept; Yuan subjects were divided into four classes, with northern Han Chinese occupying the second-poorest class and southern Han Chinese the poorest one.

Traditional Yi society in Yunnan was class based. People were split into the Black Yi (nobles, 5% of the population), White Yi (commoners), Ajia (33% of the Yi population) and the Xiaxi (10%). Ajia and Xiaxi were slaves. The White Yi were not slaves but had no freedom of movement. The Black Yi were famous for their slave-raids on Han Chinese communities. After 1959, some 700,000 slaves were freed.

Class differences are what you call as castes.
 

pmaitra

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Regardless of your opinion about this ETIM thing, pls bear below FACTS in mind
1) Xinjiang is consisting of many ethnic group. Uigur is but a minority mostly in S. Xinjiang
I'm pretty sure that only today Uighurs are a minority. Historically, they were not. This is a result of mass settling of Han Chinese in non-Han lands, like Tibet and Xinjiang or East Turkestan as I prefer to call it and forcibly transporting Uighurs out of East Turkestan into other regions of PRC in a desperate attempt to dilute thier presence in their own homeland, i.e. East Turkestan.

^^^^^ LOL egg on the face.....China is officially a (Sham) communist country by its own constitution, whereas, Untouchablity in India is a legal/punishable offence, and practiced by none-other than Commies in India!! :)
Can you provide references to substantiate your claims that communists in India practice untouchability? It sounds like your comments are influenced by your domestic political affiliations.
 

Singh

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Guys lets not Discuss Bengal in a thread on Turkestan !!
 

kickok1975

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i like what Den Xiaoping said "it doesn't matter whether the cat is black or white so long it kills the rat it is a good cat" therefore if China is making its average citizen richer i don't see why the hell we should be bothered point is

PEOPLE WANT CARS,LUXURY it is only when they don't get that things start getting ugly for the political elite.

Sure freedom of speech is great but we all know that even in democracies it has its limits
Can't agree more with you. You have to feed people first
 

kickok1975

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As a yang guizi living in China, I don't really feel that oppressed. I can easily get around the Great Firewall with a VPN. I can go out and eat what I want, shop where I want, buy what I want. I can get on any English or French forum and say what I want. Jing Jing and Cha Cha are not coming on my screen. As long as I don't criticise the regime in public or take a bunch of pictures in none tourist areas, I really feel fine. I have been here a month and have yet to get my papers checked. Police don't bother me nor do the white license plates of the military in their Mercedes Benz. I can move freely without anyone checking hokou since I don't have one. My Chinese girl says she is hassled less with yang guizi boyfriend.
Now you are speaking some insightful information! To some extent China is a more free country than most western democracy. Chinese police has more things to worry about than harassing regular people. And many Chinese citizens don't like and don't afraid of them. Here in America it's very easy to get behind the bar for small violation.
 

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Sure you can label what you want.

Has India denied it or has to pretended that it never existed?

Yet, there is a concerted effort to wipe it out and there is a whole lot of measures taken by law, wherein what you may like to term 'as lowest of the low' castes are holding highest of the high offices in the government and in politics.

Take Mayawati and the last to last President.

Take China, in comparison. They still claim to be Communist. They follow Communist repression for their safety in internal affairs and on the other hand, they follow their hated icon - the US in so far as economy is concerned!!

Human Rights are better than China , sure!

Even terrorists are given a fair trial.

Heard of Kasab?

He will get a whole lot of chances to appeal to higher courts and finally to the President.

There is NO instant execution as in China.

Now, compare it with the 'instant' execution of the Uighurs and others.

I love this 'LOL' used by you.

Remember, he who laughs last, laughs best!
It's very interested to notice that India was allied with the fundamental communist, Soviet Union, during the cold war against "the free world". Now, it becomes a free country with the same value as west countries.
 

JBH22

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i would rather have a communist xinjiang rather than have an East Turkestan that is fundamentalist or sympathetic to islamist cause.
 

jazzguy

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Nothing will endure forever.
We all know the reason why India want Tibet and Xingjiang to be independent from China. If they become two independent small countries, India will be able to take the lands from them, particularly South Tibet and Aksai Chin. I don't have problem to give whole west part of China including Tibet, Yunnan, Si Chuan, etc. to India. The only issue is India army do not want to take them.
 

Ray

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It's very interested to notice that India was allied with the fundamental communist, Soviet Union, during the cold war against "the free world". Now, it becomes a free country with the same value as west countries.
Not allied.

Equal partners and not servile and subservient as it would have been if we were allied with the US.

Look at the fate of your most trusted ally and you will realise it!

It was always free.

Not in the habit of kowtowing as some fraternal brethren did to the USSR.
 

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