What do you think about the Caste System

[abhi_the _gr8_maratha]

there is no topic to this thread cause the starter of this thread don't have any knowledge about India ( may it roma or calling indian a negro or many more)

 

[ghost]

Can you explain the caste system to me, also do the different castes look different like brahmins are white and sheduled castes are black etc. or do they look similar etc. and tell me what makes sheduled castes "untouchables" etc. and how they live, does untouchable mean you are not allowed to have any contact with them like touching their hand or like that. and would roma be perceived as untouchables. some genetic study showed them to be descend of untouchables.

European Roma descended from Indian 'untouchables', genetic study shows - Telegraph

@Soul83 it's nice and refreshing to see your enthusiasm and eagerness to learn about your roots and culture, as most people of today generation do not care and are ignorant of their roots.I would suggest you to visit India and experience India and its culture firsthand for once,as all this knowledge would be incomplete in your quest for your root and identity unless you experience India first hand.:thumb:

Regarding your query :

The Indian Caste System is historically one of the main dimensions where people in India are socially differentiated through class, religion, region, tribe, gender, and language. Although this or other forms of differentiation exist in all human societies, it becomes a problem when one or more of these dimensions overlap each other and become the sole basis of systematic ranking and unequal access to valued resources like wealth, income, power and prestige. The Indian Caste System is considered a closed system of stratification, which means that a person's social status is obligated to which caste they were born into. There are limits on interaction and behavior with people from another social status. This paper will be exploring the various aspects of the Indian caste system and its effects on India today.

The caste system is a classification of people into four hierarchically ranked castes called varnas. They are classified according to occupation and determine access to wealth, power, and privilege. The Brahmans, usually priests and scholars, are at the top. Next are the Kshatriyas, or political rulers and soldiers. They are followed by the Vaishyas, or merchants, and the fourth are the Shudras, who are usually laborers, peasants, artisans, and servants. At the very bottom are those considered the untouchables. These individuals perform occupations that are considered unclean and polluting, such as scavenging and skinning dead animals and are considered out castes. They are not considered to be included in the ranked castes.

The varnas are then divided into specialized sub-castes called jatis. Each jati is composed of a group deriving its livelihood primarily from a specific occupation. People are born into a certain caste and become members. They then acquire the appropriate occupation according to their jati. Maintaining this hereditary occupational specialization and hierarchical ranking of occupations is said to be done through an elaborate ritual system regulating the nature of social interactions between the jatis. Vedic texts from the Hindu religion, which have been compiled,legitimized, and interpreted by the Brahmans, provide the rationale for the hierarchical classification and the rituals governing social behavior. There were, and still are, rules that are laid down concerning appropriate occupational pursuit, appropriate behavior within and between castes, as well as rules related to marriage.Since India's independence from Britain in 1947, there has been considerable relaxation of rules related to the caste system. There was more sharing between members of the middle and upper castes, but those in the lowest castes continued to eat separately from the rest. There was also a significant change in occupational goals and pursuits among men from 1954 to 1992.Earlier, most men were dedicated to their traditional caste related jobs, but by 1992, most had taken up newer occupations.Although some caste-based prejudice and ranking still existed, wealth and power was now less associated with caste. Caste became a lot less significant part of daily lives of people who lived in urban areas compared to rural areas, but its significance still varies by social class and occupation. Among urban middle-class professionals, caste is not openly discussed
and is pretty insignificant, except when it comes to marital arrangements. Even then, there are adjustments made with considerations towards education, occupation, and income, as we
ll as religion and language. Although discrimination on the basis of caste has been outlawed in India,is still exists in the community today.

@Soul83 for more in depth knowledge and detailed view http://digitalcommons.calpoly.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1043&context=socssp

 

[Ray]

In today's environment, I wonder if caste plays any major role or taken to be an impediment or even a boon.

 

[Dovah]

Say bye to the old atheisthindu. This is a new atheisthindu.

On a scale of Super homo to ******, how would you rate the new atheisthindu?

 

[LordOfTheUnderworlds]

Can you explain the caste system to me, also do the different castes look different like brahmins are white and sheduled castes are black etc. or do they look similar etc. and tell me what makes sheduled castes "untouchables" etc. and how they live, does untouchable mean you are not allowed to have any contact with them like touching their hand or like that. and would roma be perceived as untouchables. some genetic study showed them to be descend of untouchables.

European Roma descended from Indian 'untouchables', genetic study shows - Telegraph

It's complicated.

Dalits facing social boycott in Rajasthan village

The Dalits of Thabola village in Rajasthan's Bhilwara district are facing social and economic boycott for a month now after two grooms from the community decided to defy the diktats of the upper caste villagers. Shahnawaz Akhtar reports.

Rajasthan boasts of lavish weddings with elaborate rituals, of which the bridegroom mounting a horse and riding around a certain area days before the wedding for the Bindoli ritual is a common norm.

But how would you react if someone barred you from taking out Bindoli from their area if you belong to a Dalit community?

Well, one would report the matter to the police to ensure the safe passage of the procession. That was exactly what two cousins belonging to the Dalit Balai community did when they were asked not to mount the horse at Thabola village in Rajasthan's Bhilwara district last month.

What the two grooms never anticipated was that this gesture of theirs would amount to socio-economic boycott of their entire community that is continuing for almost a month now.

"A day before we were to take out Bindoli in the area on May 6, Gopi, Bansi and others belonging to upper caste warned us not to take out the procession or else they will kill us. So my cousin Kailash informed the police and in their presence the Bindoli ritual was performed," Narayan Balai told Rediff.com.

Both Kailash, 24, and Narayan, 22, are second year graduation students.

There are 20 Dalit families residing along with Jats and Brahmins in Thabola village which has a total population of 2,500.

However, problems of the two cousins had just begun. From the cooks to the event organisers -- all backed out from the wedding as the two cousins defied the diktats of the upper caste, leaving the family in the lurch. Even the vehicle owner who was supposed to ferry the 'baratis' refused to give his vans. In fact the whole situation snowballed into a crisis for the entire community.

Things didn't stop there. Later auto-drivers refused to take their children to school, even the dairy owners refused giving milk and general store owners shut their doors to those from the community.

While police at first helped the duo in taking out the Bindoli procession, they did not support them later. The FIR regarding the warning before the Bindoli has also not been registered yet.

Finally the Dalits of Thabola village decided to complain to the Bhilwara district collector and urged him to interfere in the matter.

"We have been facing such a situation since the last three decades where they (upper caste villagers) had even barred us from drawing water from public hand pumps installed in the village and did not even allow us from participating in any religious process. Once stones were pelted on a religious procession in 2012," the letter written to the collector mentioned.

After the dispute, the upper caste residents of the village had on judicial papers agreed that they would not disturb the Dalits.

However, no relief came to the community. And when Rediff.com contacted Bhilwara Collector Dr Ravikumar, he said Sub Divisional Magistrate Ram Charan Berwa is looking into the matter.

Berwa was not available for comment.

Amid all these, the Mandal police station officials who refused to file an FIR when the brothers had initially complained finally registered the case on June 5 following court orders.

"Since the upper caste people have decided to boycott us, police have also turned deaf ears on our plight. So we have to move the court," said Narayan.

But Circle Inspector Mahendra Meghwansi of Mandal police station claimed, "After lodging complaint, the brothers did not turn up for their statements else we could have registered the case".

Meghwansi also alleged "the brothers are only doing such things for propaganda and there is nothing like as social and economical boycott against Dalit in the village."

When asked why Dalits would do propaganda, what would they gain out of it, the officer had no answer.

"I do not know why they are doing so."

http://www.rediff.com/news/report/dalits-facing-social-boycott-in-rajasthan-village/20140606.htm

Despite Punjab's honour killings, 22 per cent of marriages in state are across caste lines

On Monday, a dalit boy in Ahmednagar in Maharashtra was found hanged to death from a tree. His crime was that he had merely met an upper caste girl. This was not a rare incident. A man in Mysore was stabbed on Tuesday for marrying outside his caste. Such incidents take place in rural areas and among the urban elites alike. In March, a technology professional in Hyderabad was murdered by her parents for marrying outside her caste.

Using data from the National Family Health Survey (NFHS-III, 2005-2006), a paper by four scholars at Princeton University – Kumudin Das, KC Das, TK Roy and PK Tripathy – found that 10% of marriages in India cross the boundary of caste, whereas only 2.1% marriages are inter-religious.

Studying only the inter-caste marriages amongst Hindus, they found that inter-caste marriage is the highest in western India (17.0%) and low in south Indian (9.7%), despite south India's relatively better performance in education and economy. It should not be surprising that the Hindi heartland states have low figures: Rajasthan (2.4%), Chhattisgarh (3.4%), Madhya Pradesh (3.6%), Bihar (4.6%) and Uttar Pradesh (3.6%). The surprises in this bracket are Tamil Nadu (2.6%) and Jammu & Kashmir (1.7%).

Punjab and Haryana are often in the news for honour killings, but that seems to be reflection of how many people are crossing the boundary. Haryana has 17.6% inter-caste marriages while Punjab has 22.4%. Other states that exceed the 20% mark are Meghalaya (25.0%), Kerala (21.4%) and the winner is Goa (26.7%).

Other good performers are Manipur (18.3%), Tripura (17.8%), Maharashtra (17.8%) and Karnataka (16.5%) and Assam (16.8%).

Based on this data, here is a map of Hindu inter-caste marriage in India.

http://scroll.in/article/663304/Des...-of-marriages-in-state-are-across-caste-lines

 

[LordOfTheUnderworlds]

@Soul83
I read somehwere that Roma people also have their own caste system. Is it true?

 

[abhi_the _gr8_maratha]

I have a serious question ! Why every thread of thread starter starts with 'what do you think of'

 

[Peter]

I have a serious question ! Why every thread of thread starter starts with 'what do you think of'

The OP is a non Indian who wants to know about India. As a Roma living in Austria he probably feels a kinship with us. He just wants to know more about his original homeland and I find nothing wrong in it.

 

[abhi_the _gr8_maratha]

The OP is a non Indian who wants to know about India. As a Roma living in Austria he probably feels a kinship with us. He just wants to know more about his original homeland and I find nothing wrong in it.

but I do , one thread he calls up negro in another he calls up brown and now he says many indians are white .

 

[Peter]

but I do , one thread he calls up negro in another he calls up brown and now he says many Indians are white .

What is the problem with that. In India you will find people with lots of skin tones. If you come to Bengal you can see this more distinctly. Obviously he does not know much about India and wants to learn more about us.

 

[abhi_the _gr8_maratha]

What is the problem with that. In India you will find people with lots of skin tones. If you come to Bengal you can see this more distinctly. Obviously he does not know much about India and wants to learn more about us.

if he want to learn about india then why his title of thread is like that of AAJ TAK or american media or BBC , means firm and confirm without any significant logic

 

[Hari Sud]

What I know about caste system is that we should not talk about it. It is the Christian Missionaries of 1830s under British occupation of India that they began to talk about caste system in India. They were looking for converts and caste system was their trump card. So when they got ejected out in 1857 and came back, they began this great talk of caste system in India. Legally it does not exist since 1947, but old habits die hard. Now with reservations, the lower casts have risen. They are ministers, high civil servants, judges etc which previously was not possible.

Similarly the western countries do not wish anybody to talk about the colour of their skin. They distinguish you by the colour of your skin. Again 95% of the 13% of black people in America are very poor. They make their both ends meet with the welfare checks or simple picking up the utmost menial jobs not fit for white folks. These comparably are the lower cast people, if you must compare to understand. Legally the colour distinction was banned in 1964 after Martin Luther King's persuasive crusade. But did you ever think that distinguishing you by the colour of your skin ever vanished in America. In 1972 I went as a student from Missouri to Kentucky for a presentation. The colour distinction had been removed seven years earlier, but to my utter surprise they had three washrooms one each for men, women and coloured people. I went their after 30 years, the system was partially still there as the colour people washroom had been by boarded up, i was told only a decade back. My point here that old habits die hard. In America this habit of 300 years earlier took thirty to forty years to die in public, in India habits of four thousand years back would die in a generation or two. Education and reservation has already made the difference. I can see in my village in Himachal Pradesh, where the village Sarpanch in not the high caste person but a scheduled caste.

I suggest we talk less and less. This system is already on its way out.

To the propagandists with high morals of the west, remind them that till 1964, it was official that the black people were inferior. After that, the same feelings are expressed in private.

 

[mattster]

The common thread about most Hindus who write anything regarding Christians in India(that includes Most DFI members) is that most don't know a damn thing about the origin of Christianity in India.

Let me educate you since I am a Malayalee Syrian Christian.

The Christian population in India consists of 2 different categories: newer recent converts from the North-East states and the long standing Christian communities like the ones in Kerala, and Tamilnadu have been Christians for over a thousand years. The Goan Christians thru Portuguese missionaries have been Christian since the 16th century.

In fact the Christians and Jewish communities of Kerala go back as far as the European Christian communities.
Only the Syrian, Egyptian Coptic, and other Iraqi Arab and Armenian Christian Groups have a longer history.

Christianity has been in India even longer than Islam.

 

[archie]

Those Who talk about caste systems only talk about the Half the knowledge and only the part where it was codified...

Ancient Caste systems were not purely based on birth .. The time when the ancient education system was in force had the ability to classify the skills of students... when the Ancient system was broken the entire system went disarray...

Further Prized knowledge was always kept within the community and the community thrived which is also classified as caste systems. Those of us who have lived In India would not deny the common stereotyping of certain traits based on what caste / Community the person is from. All of this organisation and stratification is a set of Formal and Informal Knowledge system that passed incredible amount of knowledge through the generations..

One of The examples is Sanskrit The language itself has not undergone much change in the past 5000 Years( (Compared to any other language that is alive today) and the Vedas have been passed verbally without much distortion through the generations

This Socio Economic fabric was broken in the past 800 years and the needs deep and unbiased research back to the roots to uncover the full extant of this System and functioning

 

[ITBP]

Caste system is Hinduism's worst perhaps only 1 fault.

To stop this, some actions are needed,

1) Government should declare there are no more Brahmins, Shudras etc.

2) Every one can be priest, not only Brahmins. Every one..

3) Hindu Shastras should be rewritten, but for this we need another Adi Shankaracharya.

 

[pkroyal]

There are three theories which seem logical :-

One - Division of labour for management & running day to day affairs of a society
Senior management ( brahmins ? )
Middle management ( Kshatrityas)
Junior management ( vaishyas)
workers / labour ( shudras)

Two - The head
Limbs
Internal organs
Remaining all other bodily systems

Three - A safety net or NGO, having no bearing on Kingly discharge of duties or on running the affairs of the state.

The problem arose when apparently mobility between each strata froze, whereas human nature is dynamic, promotions and rising up in hierarchy a social need. Modern democracy with its many flaws addresses this need in a succinct manner. No human system is perfect. In any case " pindasya brahmandam" ( the body is the universe) we cannot do without the other, because every thing that exists in the Universe is interrelated & interdependent.

 

[LurkerBaba]

Thread closed