We have inadequate air defense to stop chinese airdropped divisions.

[BunBunCake]

MKI has been fully developed unlike Chinese J-10 and Junk Fighter-17

You aren't putting up a rational argument by saying this. These are your opinions..

which have been induced first and developed latter!

Well they aren't secret projects, so they were induced and made known to the public first. And developed latter??? (of which two/what are you talking about)

You can tell your pakistani friends when Tejas gets IOC and FOC we will talk about in details and surely we all know how pakistanis were running around French and UK firms for Avionics and Radar....there goes Chinese a/c being superior!!

Agreed we don't have all areas covered, however, in no scenario all areas can be covered, however, if you want to cover all towns, villages and rooftops we have to work on it; but it is not a cake walk to Drop in troops and take over.....!!

As you agreed, that is why we need more SAM's. To cover all major cities!
Also, I didn't say we need all towns, and gullys covered.

Pakistan in 1965 tried it on one of our airfields and failed miserably, almost 111 of their Elite SSG commandos got killed or captured by Police/Villagers/Soldiers on the Indian side and only around 10-11 returned....these suicidal missions undermining Supply lines never work in the Long run, we all know what happened to Nazis at the Russian corridor, here we are talking about a bigger force behind enemy lines, logistical issues will cause failure in the mission.....they have to secure supply routes first and it not easy to know the terrain and PLA withdrawing back is a Historical fact!

PAKISTAN isn't China. And try the 60's with now, where their capabilities improved, while our defenses got weaker. (again, where are the SAMs?!??!)

 

[Shaitan]

you expect people to sit and have tea when army is losing ? couple of million is a small fraction of the population.

Happened throught out history, why not? Would you do something? I dont have the balls most people dont.

China can beat India, its not Pakistan!

Its almost like a war between Pakistan and India. India on paper sure can beat Pakistan..

 

[Shaitan]

Similar to how India is flying a head of Pakistan militarily and economically. China is doing that to India. Face it..

Almost like how some Chinese say they can beat America. If USA was serious you know the outcome.

 

[maomao]

You aren't putting up a rational argument by saying this. These are your opinions..

If calling J-10 inferior to SU-MKI is irrational, then you need to update your knowledge!

Well they aren't secret projects, so they were induced and made known to the public first. And developed latter??? (of which two/what are you talking about)

JF-17 is one of the most evident example, I am amazed you fail to realize a clear fact, even after me mentioning pakistan has been asking French and British companies for Avionics, after getting refused they have fallen back to inferior Chinese avionics!!

As you agreed, that is why we need more SAM's. To cover all major cities!
Also, I didn't say we need all towns, and gullys covered.

By your logic, don't you think even people living in towns and villages need protection? How unfair of you for considering small town Indians and Villagers inferior!!

PAKISTAN isn't China. And try the 60's with now, where their capabilities improved, while our defenses got weaker. (again, where are the SAMs?!??!)

I think you need to learn, read and analyse a statement first and then comment, I had clearly said Pakistan tried it and Failed in such a mission, Nazi which had way bigger force could not sustain logistics, hence failed at the hands of Russian (even though they were not behind enemy lines!!). Therefore having a Big "Chinese" force across enemy lines without secured supply lines is a logistical nightmare and supply-chain disaster. Even US had to secure supply-chian first then went about attcaking by Land and air NOT dropping delta foce directly on key installations and Baghdad!

 

[RAM]

A fullblown war in NE is difficult to happen as PLA cannot surmount IA as theres enough numbers of IA in the ground to protect/defend any pincer attack from Chinese. However the Airdrops can happen to counter this/to cut off supply routes and if it happens so the magnitude will be less as this will be almost certainly a covert operation only.However if that happens,with less force (to avoid detection) by PLA's execution ,it will be difficult to achieve its primary military objectives.

Though we have Air Defence porosity for the time being ,Mountain radars are being installed along with AKASH + AWACS(for survelliance)+ SUKOI can have adequate air defense which is progressing -slowly but surely happening.However I admit the fact the numbers favours Chinese When it comes to the amount of combat aircrafts they can operate at, on a given time may be a deciding factor which need to be addressed by the Govt/IAF as soon as possible.The key point is -if in the next 7-9 years if we hav enough numbers of SUk + MRCA in NE all chinese designs for territiorial agressions/ambitionswill be doomed to failure.


Regarding Nuke war -I don't think this will happen easily unless the the war reaches the door step of Indian Metro cities. A nuke war can be extremely
damaging to Chinese as well.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

LF, we're talking about DEFENDING our borders, not taking out Chinese radars. And, it'll be easier for Indian aircraft to enter Western China, which isn't as heavily protected as the Eastern part is.

You saying the MKI is better than the J-10 is the same thing as a Pakistani saying the JF-17 is better than the Tejas. They too doubt the capabilities of the unproved Tejas. What should I tell them?

The # of S-300's we have aren't enough to cover all major cities in India. And once again, Akash is a short range SAM.


Kunal, PAD is a BMD. It doesn't shoot down aircraft.... SAM's do that. So PAD is irrelevent.

They can use both... not just cruise missiles, in that case we need BMD like PAD and AAD. But this thread is about SAM's that's why i mentioned the bombers..

You shouldn't underestimate the J-10's capabilities, because it's very similar to the Tejas, Gripen, Etc..

Akash is a SHORT range SAM, and as KB said, we have SIX S-300's. Rest should be self explanatory

He is right!
He is taking abt HARPO UAVs, Anti radition drones can be used against enemy surveillance radars and SAM radars..


Check out capabilities of MKI in terms of payload and radar and engines! to J-10.. MKI is way better than MKK regarding Radar..

Besides, How come comparing Light fighter with Heavy class fighter??


How much KM u need to shoot down BMs?
How many batteries u need for single incoming BM?
What type of radars you need for surveillance & trace and the BM?


How BMDS works?
Find out u will understand it can shoot aircraft or not..


Elaborate yourself..


Again its a medium class fighter, Why to compare with a totally different category fighter?


AKash is a medium range..
What is self explanatory?


WIKI is a good source of knowledge..

 

[LETHALFORCE]

But that would invite nuclear war and the response from chinese would be massive... If nukes are to be used they should be for once for an all. Because the second strike would be fatal. there is nothing called tactical nuke.

This is in the upper atmosphere not against any cities or battalions.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

LF, we're talking about DEFENDING our borders, not taking out Chinese radars. And, it'll be easier for Indian aircraft to enter Western China, which isn't as heavily protected as the Eastern part is.

Chinese have to fly across China for this air drop scenario. I gave the air scenario which would be coordinated with Ground scenario.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

we will definetly not want Dongfeng series to come into picture after that. Thats why we will have to limit as much as we can......

If they have to jump to Dongengs from our conventional weapons then they should not be fighting a war,either way we reportedly have AGNIS on the Eastern border.

http://frontierindia.net/indian-agni-missiles-deployed-in-tunnels-on-chinese-border
Indian Agni missiles deployed in tunnels on Chinese border

http://news.rediff.com/report/2010/aug/24/agni-2-missile-to-be-deployed-near-china-border.htm
Agni-II missile to be deployed near China border?

 

[LETHALFORCE]

On paper it seems China can beat India.

How many wars has China fought at long distances?? Why did they lose a small border war to Vietnam???

 

[Shaitan]

Regarding Nuke war -I don't think this will happen easily unless the the war reaches the door step of Indian Metro cities. A nuke war can be extremely
damaging to Chinese as well.

I heard Chinese nukes are much more advanced and can do much more damage. India has 60-80, China 160-240.

That can take out all of India right? But India cant do that to China.

Thats not wise..

India needs to do what China has been doing for like 40 some years. Have a low profile and get stronger..And not talk so much.

Its obviously trying to build up to counter USA. India seems like a nuisance to China similar to Pakistan to India. China is building up to counter any attack from USA, India is doing the same with China.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

I heard Chinese nukes are much more advanced and can do much more damage. India has 60-80, China 160-240.

That can take out all of India right? But India cant do that to China.

Thats not wise..

India needs to do what China has been doing for like 40 some years. Have a low profile and get stronger..

90% of Chinese economy is confined to 5% of their Eastern seaboard,India has the ability to wipe that out.

 

[SHASH2K2]

I heard Chinese nukes are much more advanced and can do much more damage. India has 60-80, China 160-240.

That can take out all of India right? But India cant do that to China.

Thats not wise..

India needs to do what China has been doing for like 40 some years. Have a low profile and get stronger..

Indian nukes are pointed either at china or at Pakistan While china has many more countries to care or target its nukes.
Also 100 nukes will damage India but it will not finish us. we will have a lot left.

China never compromised its national security even when they were not so strong economically. Infact we should learn from them and do whatever is required to protect our intrests.

 

[Shaitan]

China never compromised its national security even when they were not so strong economically.

This is very true. Under Mao, China never took any shit from anyone. Even USA.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

How is our Eastern border with China heavily protected?? I gave the air scenario which would be coordinated with Ground scenario.

@LF Sir,
This is old map, As per new their are 11 new fighter capable airfields in CHENGDU..


Chengdu Airbase 30°37'N 104°06'E

Chongqing Airport 29°03'N 106°35'E

Kunming Airbase 25°04'N 102°41'E

Lhasa Airbase 29°41'N 91°10'E

Mengzi ??

Xining Airbase 26°35'N 101°55'E


11 more added recently..
SU-27/J-11 are primary aircraft in this region..

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Keep aside Nuke war..
If we ever have a war with China it will be a conventional..

 

[LETHALFORCE]

@LF Sir,
This is old map, As per new their are 11 new fighter capable airfields in CHENGDU..

you are right Kunal,but as far as I know no Bomber/transportation divisions,which does not mean in the future there will not be. This is a newer map check the transportation divisions.

 

[BunBunCake]

He is right!
He is taking abt HARPO UAVs, Anti radition drones can be used against enemy surveillance radars and SAM radars..

Please take time to read what I said next time. He said the UAV's can be used to destroy chinese radars.
I never disagreed with him.
I said this thread is about DEFENDING our borders, and our UAV's shooting down Chinese RADARS are NOT REVLEVENT to "We have inadequate air defense to stop chinese airdropped divisions."

Check out capabilities of MKI in terms of payload and radar and engines! to J-10.. MKI isway better than MKK regarding Radar..

Being a Defence Professional, I'd expect better from you.
NO information about the J-10's radar been released, and yet you still compare their radars?

Engines/Payload,...... on and on, that's because they're a different CLASS.

Besides, How come comparing Light fighter with Heavy class fighter??

Why don't you stop making false accusations and click back to the previous pages and see who was 'comparing' the J-10 and MKI. It wasn't me.

here's what i said:

You shouldn't underestimate the J-10's capabilities, because it's very similar to the Tejas, Gripen, Etc..

That's comparing it to the MKI?

How much KM u need to shoot down BMs?

....

What type of radars you need for surveillance & trace and the BM?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swordfish_Long_Range_Tracking_Radar

You can't use AKASH to shoot down a BM.
There's a reason why Russia, America spend billions making S-Xxx and the Patriot.

Also, Usually multiple missiles are fired to shoot down BM's.

How BMDS works?
Find out u will understand it can shoot aircraft or not..

You are ******** me, you honestly think ABM/BMDs can shoot down aircraft?

Please enlighten me on how the AAD and the PAD (both BMDs) can be used to shoot them down. Either I'm ignorant or you're wrong.

Akash is a medium range..

There is no official classifications so, i will rest my case on this. I shouldn't have called it short range either.

What is self explanatory?

Again, you didn't read any of the thread.

He said:

S-300s are gud enough, however we have installed other assets, Akash are under mass production and will be good enough for us

reply

Akash is a SHORT range SAM, and as KB said, we have SIX S-300's. Rest should be self explanatory

The self explanatory part is that six S-300's are NOT good enough.

WIKI is a good source of knowledge..

yes, take time to read it.
gl
gl

 

[BunBunCake]

Chinese have to fly across China for this air drop scenario. I gave the air scenario which would be coordinated with Ground scenario.

Chinese have air refuelers...

@also I think we have a misunderstanding here, both of us.

You mentioned INDIAN UAV's shooting down chinese radars, and I said that was irrelevent since we were talking about INDIAN DEFENCES.
And also, I didn't say Eastern INDIA is not protected, I said that about Eastern China.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

we still have many operational SA-6 's and we are also developing hundreds of thousands MAITRI'S with the French.

http://livefist.blogspot.com/2010/02/indo-french-maitri-sr-sam-awaits.html

Indo-French Maitri SR-SAM Awaits Workshare Clearance

A comprehensive workshare proposal has been put together by DRDO and technology partner MBDA for the MAITRI short range surface-to-air missile (SR-SAM) programme. According to sources at DRDO and MBDA, both sides have identified all collaborative development areas and are are fully prepared to complete development and the first phase of testing within three years from the time the project is given formal sanction by the Cabinet. The partnership began in 2007 as part of the umbrella government-to-government agreement between India and France on missiles. Like at AeroIndia 2009, where it made its public debut, a full-scale model of the Maitri will make a reappearance at DefExpo 2010 which kicks off next week.

The ownership of the Maitri programme is envisaged as being fully Indian. With baseline technologies from the Trishul SAM programme, the Maitri programme basically envisages the sale of certain key technologies by MBDA to DRDO (seeker, endgame avionics, thrust vector control, propulsion modifications), though production will not be under a corporate joint venture on the lines of BrahMos, but would rather be carried out entirely by Bharat Dynamics Ltd (BDL), India's state-owned munitions production agency.

The Maitri is being built in two basic variants -- a ship-borne point defence and tactical air defence version for the Navy and a land-based self-propelled (wheeled and tracked) launcher-based system for the Air Force and Army.