Warship captain sacked after misguided order leads to death

[bhramos]

New Delhi: The captain of the INS Talwar, a frontline frigate of the Indian Navy, has been removed from command after his order caused the death of a young officer at sea.(sevenoya)

Captain Rahul Parmar allegedly ordered young officers on board his ship to dive into the sea off the coast of Gujarat. He allegedly wanted to test their bravery and readiness for emergencies. One of them- a sub-lieutenant and the youngest officer on the ship - drowned. The tragedy occurred on December 20.

The INS Talwar was on patrol duty; it has been used for anti-piracy operations in the recent past.

A Board of Inquiry has been completed by the Navy; it has asked for the removal of Captain Parmar.

Warship captain sacked after misguided order leads to death​

 

[W.G.Ewald]

What emergency requires jumping off a ship into the water? I believe abandoning ship involves rafts or lifeboats; PFDs at the minimum.

What is the water temperature at that location at that time of year? Just a tragedy for the junior officer's family for his life to be sacrificed to the ego of a martinet.

Captain Rahul Parmar allegedly ordered young officers on board his ship to dive into the sea off the coast of Gujarat. He allegedly wanted to test their bravery and readiness for emergencies.

A real leader would have been the first to dive in.

 

[Ray]

One has to wait for the full report to know the case.

Media tends to be selective.

 

[Blackwater]

New Delhi: The captain of the INS Talwar, a frontline frigate of the Indian Navy, has been removed from command after his order caused the death of a young officer at sea.(sevenoya)

Captain Rahul Parmar allegedly ordered young officers on board his ship to dive into the sea off the coast of Gujarat. He allegedly wanted to test their bravery and readiness for emergencies. One of them- a sub-lieutenant and the youngest officer on the ship - drowned. The tragedy occurred on December 20.

The INS Talwar was on patrol duty; it has been used for anti-piracy operations in the recent past.

A Board of Inquiry has been completed by the Navy; it has asked for the removal of Captain Parmar.

Warship captain sacked after misguided order leads to death​

WTF, why sacked the captain. If he orders to jump and if our young Jawan can't handle, that its their fault. That sub-LT was not fit for navy.. we dont want soft and sensitive soldier in navy. Imagine during war time, if his duty calls him to jump from ship and he piss in his pants .what will happen

 

[Ray]

In the military, to ensure that one is not subjected to a psychotic orders that have nothing to do with military training or good order , the Acts contain a section that one can disobey an unlawful command.

A senior officer commanding a unit is supposed to be a responsible person who is entrusted with the safety of unit and its personnel.

The issue is whether the order to jump was in line of duty or was it that the Captain was just afflicted with a touch of megalomania or seized with a bout of sadism and went beyond the law.

The Board of Inquiry is instituted for just that reason.

Imagine ordering chaps to be singed with cigarette butt just to 'toughen them up' or making them go through waterboarding just to check that the troops can endure the same.

 

[W.G.Ewald]

One has to wait for the full report to know the case.

Media tends to be selective.

As usual, the voice or reason.

 

[Blackwater]

In the military, to ensure that one is not subjected to a psychotic orders that have nothing to do with military training or good order , the Acts contain a section that one can disobey an unlawful command.

A senior officer commanding a unit is supposed to be a responsible person who is entrusted with the safety of unit and its personnel.

The issue is whether the order to jump was in line of duty or was it that the Captain was just afflicted with a touch of megalomania or seized with a bout of sadism and went beyond the law.

The Board of Inquiry is instituted for just that reason.

Imagine ordering chaps to be singed with cigarette butt just to 'toughen them up' or making them go through waterboarding just to check that the troops can endure the same.

But ray sir, Water, swimming is part of navy life.Every cadet must ready to jump.It's part of war preparation...

 

[Ray]

But ray sir, Water, swimming is part of navy life.Every cadet must ready to jump.It's part of war preparation...

You are right.

But then we have not been told the circumstances under which the order was given.

I am sure that there would be some lapse and that is why the Board of Inquiry has recommended the removal of the Captain from command of the ship!

Even so, I would still think it is wise to wait for the details!

Let us take a hypothetical example.

If a ship is moving and a chap jumps, one can in the wash be pulled towards the propellers and be cut into ribbons!

Now that would be disastrous and the command would be careless and not correct for a Captain with so many years of service.

The Captain would be held culpable.

 

[W.G.Ewald]

That sub-LT was not fit for navy.. we dont want soft and sensitive soldier in navy. Imagine during war time, if his duty calls him to jump from ship and he piss in his pants .what will happen

Fishermen of Gloucester, Massachusetts, not soft or sensitive in any way, have historically not learned to swim, believing it would only prolong their suffering in the event their ship was sunk.

 

[bhramos]

Captain of INS Talwar relieved of command

Sea survival training

The exercise is part of a sea survival training during which young officers are made to swim in the sea. The warship is first of the three Talwar class frigates built by Russia and commissioned in 2003.

http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/article2790783.ece​

 

[pkpremkant]

New Delhi: The captain of the INS Talwar, a frontline frigate of the Indian Navy, has been removed from command after his order caused the death of a young officer at sea.(sevenoya)

Captain Rahul Parmar allegedly ordered young officers on board his ship to dive into the sea off the coast of Gujarat. He allegedly wanted to test their bravery and readiness for emergencies. One of them- a sub-lieutenant and the youngest officer on the ship - drowned. The tragedy occurred on December 20.

The INS Talwar was on patrol duty; it has been used for anti-piracy operations in the recent past.

A Board of Inquiry has been completed by the Navy; it has asked for the removal of Captain Parmar.

Warship captain sacked after misguided order leads to death​

Some corrections/
the incident occur on 29.
and I still believe that my brother is still alive somewhere

 

[Sridhar]

[h=2]Wednesday, January 11, 2012[/h] [h=3]Indian Navy Frigate Captain Relieved Of Command[/h]

INS Talwar at the President's Fleet Review on 20 Dec 2011

The Commanding Officer of the Indian Navy's frontline missile frigate INS Talwar has been relieved of command to make way for an investigation into the death of a young officer out at sea just before New Year. Captain Rahul Parmar, a veteran with the navy's work-up force, will stay off the ship and its command as a Board of Inquiry (BoI) looks into whether the death of Sub Lieutenant Vipin Kumar on December 29 was caused by negligence or unnecessary pressure.

It took that photograph of the Talwar on December 20 off Mumbai, nine days before the incident in question: a sea swimming survival drill in the Arabian Sea, which involved officers and sailors jumping from the ship and rapidly swimming 50-meters away, simulating a jump-ship in the event of a hit or other accident. Sub Lt Kumar jumped, but failed to surface (ironically, he was a seasoned swimmer, ex-NDA). Elaborate search operations were conducted but he couldn't be found. First designated missing, he was later designated dead. On the ship's return, Captain Parmar was relieved of command. The navy has, however, said that the CO has been asked to step aside only so that the investigation isn't prejudiced.

The Talwar-class of ships are superb vessels, but this is the second time that a CO of one of these ships has lost command. On December 27, 2005, INS Trishul collided with a merchantman outside Mumbai harbour, an incident that first led to its commanding officer Captain Sunil Edwin David being relieved of command, but finally to his exit from service as well.

Photo of INS Talwar / Shiv Aroor

 

[Ray]

Some corrections/
the incident occur on 29.
and I still believe that my brother is still alive somewhere

We also hope that your brother is safe.

 

[Ray]

It is said that this happened during a drill.

 

[lemontree]

WTF, why sacked the captain. If he orders to jump and if our young Jawan can't handle, that its their fault. That sub-LT was not fit for navy.. we dont want soft and sensitive soldier in navy. Imagine during war time, if his duty calls him to jump from ship and he piss in his pants .what will happen

You must refrain from making such insulting comments against officers and ORs who have lost their lives in the line of duty. The officer did as he was told, he did not flinch, something must have gone wrong.

For the knowledge of the civilians here - in all military training 3% casulty is acceptable.

 

[ace009]

But ray sir, Water, swimming is part of navy life.Every cadet must ready to jump.It's part of war preparation...

Firstly, if swimming and surviving in water is mandatory for Navy personnel and is part of being "tough", then do you expect airforce pilots to learn to fly to be "tough" and eligible? That is one screwed up argument.

Secondly, any non-combat loss of life is unfortunate and if it happens due to unlawful/ irrelevant orders, is deplorable. Stop supporting a**-holes just because they are officers. If the Navy found the Captain guilty and relieved him of his command, then he was guilty.

Finally, be more compassionate and empathic towards our armed forces personnel - just because they have vowed to protect our country and us with their lives, does not mean that they are expendable and should be callously called "weak" in death. This kind of heartless false machoism is expected from Pakistanis, not from Indians.

 

[Bhadra]

Firstly, if swimming and surviving in water is mandatory for Navy personnel and is part of being "tough", then do you expect airforce pilots to learn to fly to be "tough" and eligible? That is one screwed up argument.

Secondly, any non-combat loss of life is unfortunate and if it happens due to unlawful/ irrelevant orders, is deplorable. Stop supporting a**-holes just because they are officers. If the Navy found the Captain guilty and relieved him of his command, then he was guilty.

Finally, be more compassionate and empathic towards our armed forces personnel - just because they have vowed to protect our country and us with their lives, does not mean that they are expendable and should be callously called "weak" in death. This kind of heartless false machoism is expected from Pakistanis, not from Indians.

Fatality in training is a combat loss.

 

[Tronic]

WTF, why sacked the captain. If he orders to jump and if our young Jawan can't handle, that its their fault. That sub-LT was not fit for navy.. we dont want soft and sensitive soldier in navy. Imagine during war time, if his duty calls him to jump from ship and he piss in his pants .what will happen

A very insensitive post. Maybe when you grow up a bit, put aside your GI-Joes, you can attempt joining the armed forces to know how much pressure these chaps are under; especially during a drill. Until than, learn to show some respect to men in uniform. You don't know the circumstances, and soft and sensitive soldiers don't make the cut into the armed forces, something you can find out for yourself if you ever attempt on joining the forces.

 

[Ray]

Firstly, if swimming and surviving in water is mandatory for Navy personnel and is part of being "tough", then do you expect airforce pilots to learn to fly to be "tough" and eligible? That is one screwed up argument.

Secondly, any non-combat loss of life is unfortunate and if it happens due to unlawful/ irrelevant orders, is deplorable. Stop supporting a**-holes just because they are officers. If the Navy found the Captain guilty and relieved him of his command, then he was guilty.

Finally, be more compassionate and empathic towards our armed forces personnel - just because they have vowed to protect our country and us with their lives, does not mean that they are expendable and should be callously called "weak" in death. This kind of heartless false machoism is expected from Pakistanis, not from Indians.

He has not been relieved of command because he was found guilty.

He was relieved of command so that the Board of Inquiry is done in total fairness, where the Captain could not influence the ship's company.

 

[Ray]

Fatality in training is a combat loss.

Technically, 3% is acceptable during training since all live training is full of risks.

The Inquiry will establish the reasons for the casualty and pinpoint responsibility, if any.