VVIP chopper scam effect: Defence procurement policy to be changed

Yusuf

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Basically means massive delays in modernization plans

NEW DELHI: In the wake of chopper scam, the government on Monday announced it would change its defence procurement policy, which will be unveiled in a few months."Within a few months we are going to change the defence procurement procedure again," defence minister A K Antony told the Lok Sabha during the Question Hour.The defence procurement policy was revised as recently as 2011.The minister was replying to questions on the allegations of kickbacks to the tune of Rs 362 crore in the Rs 3,600 crore deal to procure 12 VVIP choppers from AgustaWestland.His statement assumes significance as the government has come under sharp attack over the chopper scam, with allegations that former Air Chief S P Tyagi was a beneficiary in the kickbacks.Antony said the government has to import defence equipment because the Services require the most modern equipment to meet their operational necessity."Because of the operational necessity of the Services, on the request that they need the most modern equipment to meet the operational necessity, government moves to import any high value equipment from foreign sources," Antony said.Dubbing indigenisation as the "ultimate solution to the scourge of corruption", Antony said the government would give "more priority to indigenisation so that Indian public sector and private sector can play a major role in producing state-of-the-art equipment for the Indian forces."Referring to the CBI investigation in the VVIP chopper deal, Antony said it would be early to opine on the extent to which this case was likely to affect other defence deals in the pipeline

VVIP chopper scam effect: Defence procurement policy to be changed - TOI Mobile | The Times of India Mobile Site
 

arnabmit

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Only silver lining of the scam cloud is the MoD push to allow private sector to venture into defense industries. :sad:

Basically means massive delays in modernization plans

NEW DELHI: In the wake of chopper scam, the government on Monday announced it would change its defence procurement policy, which will be unveiled in a few months."Within a few months we are going to change the defence procurement procedure again," defence minister A K Antony told the Lok Sabha during the Question Hour.The defence procurement policy was revised as recently as 2011.The minister was replying to questions on the allegations of kickbacks to the tune of Rs 362 crore in the Rs 3,600 crore deal to procure 12 VVIP choppers from AgustaWestland.His statement assumes significance as the government has come under sharp attack over the chopper scam, with allegations that former Air Chief S P Tyagi was a beneficiary in the kickbacks.Antony said the government has to import defence equipment because the Services require the most modern equipment to meet their operational necessity."Because of the operational necessity of the Services, on the request that they need the most modern equipment to meet the operational necessity, government moves to import any high value equipment from foreign sources," Antony said.Dubbing indigenisation as the "ultimate solution to the scourge of corruption", Antony said the government would give "more priority to indigenisation so that Indian public sector and private sector can play a major role in producing state-of-the-art equipment for the Indian forces."Referring to the CBI investigation in the VVIP chopper deal, Antony said it would be early to opine on the extent to which this case was likely to affect other defence deals in the pipeline

VVIP chopper scam effect: Defence procurement policy to be changed - TOI Mobile | The Times of India Mobile Site
 

Armand2REP

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Yusuf said:
Antony said.Dubbing indigenisation as the "ultimate solution to the scourge of corruption"
Seriously??? Look at China... most corrupt military in the world and domestic production just makes it worse.
 

arnabmit

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Well, Indian & Chinese industry are classical examples of production paradigms...

China = Quantity at the cost of Quality
India = Quality at the cost of Quantity

Luckily, quality product can be produced in quantity with better management, but the other way round.

Seriously??? Look at China... most corrupt military in the world and domestic production just makes it worse.
 

LurkerBaba

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Well, Indian & Chinese industry are classical examples of production paradigms...

China = Quantity at the cost of Quality
India = Quality at the cost of Quantity

Luckily, quality product can be produced in quantity with better management, but the other way round.
Let me be harsh.

India = No Quality because there is no quantity. Basically, India can't hold a candle in-front of Chinese manufacturing
 

Illusive

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Well, Indian & Chinese industry are classical examples of production paradigms...

China = Quantity at the cost of Quality
India = Quality at the cost of Quantity

Luckily, quality product can be produced in quantity with better management, but the other way round.
What quality products does India produces which China cant match?
 

nrj

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CEP of Shaurya is enough to tell you about quality of Indian manufacturing against China, Period.
 

arnabmit

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Illusive

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LurkerBaba

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OT
I hope you get your answer here...
http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/economy-infrastructure/45181-made-india-indian-firms-shine-across-globe.html

Whereas whenever we inquire about any warranty on chinese products, only answer we get is "Good Luck Warranty"

@LurkerBaba
CEP of Shaurya is enough to tell you about quality of Indian manufacturing against China, Period.
I'm not talking about quality. eg: Compare the quality of a Chinese microprocessor and an Indian one. The Indian made microprocessor does not exist !

You need to have real products to compare quality
 
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arnabmit

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Yes, India doesn't produce a lot of things that China does. But I was talking about the things we do produce.

India doesn't produce a lot of things, because political economic & foreign investment framework blunders, not for the lack of ability.

OT

I'm not talking about quality. eg: Compare the quality of a Chinese microprocessor and an Indian one. The Indian made microprocessor does not exist !

You need to have real products to compare quality
 

nrj

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I'm not talking about quality. eg: Compare the quality of a Chinese microprocessor and an Indian one. The Indian made microprocessor does not exist !


:dude: You first talk about Quality here -

Lurkerbaba said:
Let me be harsh.

India = No Quality because there is no quantity
Now you talk about microprocessors. What is quality of Chinese microprocessor? Whats wrong with traditional instruction set architecture? Something like processor is means to end i.e application in this case. Key differentiator is software behind it, not hardware. Its all about application you need at hand. What vintage processor Russian missiles are still reliably using?


You need to have real products to compare quality
Duh! I gave you product. Targeted projectiles like missiles are the best 'product based' example to compare. Shaurya is one of the most accurate missile in the world. CEP of that missile family is shining proof of Indian manufacturing quality.
 

Armand2REP

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:
Duh! I gave you product. Targeted projectiles like missiles are the best 'product based' example to compare. Shaurya is one of the most accurate missile in the world. CEP of that missile family is shining proof of Indian manufacturing quality.
Is there any footage of India's land attack CEP? That would be shining proof. Not those staged Brahmos tests with radar reflectors.
 

nrj

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Is there any footage of India's land attack CEP? That would be shining proof. Not those staged Brahmos tests with radar reflectors.
Like everybody is exhibiting footage of their CEP.
 

Bhadra

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LurkerBaba

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:dude: You first talk about Quality here -

.
No, I'm talking about the actual product, There is no product (no quantity) hence talking about quality is irrelevant (no quality)

Let me be harsh.

India = No Quality because there is no quantity
Lurkerbaba
Now you talk about microprocessors. What is quality of Chinese microprocessor? Whats wrong with traditional instruction set architecture? Something like processor is means to end i.e application in this case. Key differentiator is software behind it, not hardware. Its all about application you need at hand. What vintage processor Russian missiles are still reliably using?
Again, we don't have a product of our own. So we can't make comparisons
 

nrj

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No, I'm talking about the actual product, There is no product (no quantity) hence talking about quality is irrelevant (no quality)





Again, we don't have a product of our own. So we can't make comparisons
There is quantity. Moreover, you don't need volumes to test quality. It is a subjective matter. Not every product has mass production demand. You talk of microprocessors, quantity, quality, manufacturing. These are different subjects hanging on a relevance of a very thin thread.
 

LurkerBaba

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There is quantity. Moreover, you don't need volumes to test quality. It is a subjective matter. Not every product has mass production demand. You talk of microprocessors, quantity, quality, manufacturing. These are different subjects hanging on a relevance of a very thin thread.
This is where it all started.

Well, Indian & Chinese industry are classical examples of production paradigms...

China = Quantity at the cost of Quality
India = Quality at the cost of Quantity

Luckily, quality product can be produced in quantity with better management, but the other way round.
My point is, we need to have actual products before making fun of cheap Chinese crap.
 

nrj

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This is where it all started.



My point is, we need to have actual products before making fun of cheap Chinese crap.
Fun is to be made of cheap crap, be it Chinese or Martian. We have tested products and they stand tall in quality. I gave you example of Shaurya or even IGMDP. Chinese industry as what is today came from counterfeiting and still contributes to 8% of Chinese GDP.

And it is not just Indians who make fun of Chinese products by calling it 'Cheap crap'. There is reason why China itself wants to drop that association to make something more than 'Made in China'. Indian products do not share that bad name. Post you quoted is blunt and I do not agree with it as the issue is complex and such superficial summary can not be drawn. China developed ever crashing crap products domestically because of isolation it has in international technology market. That is not the case with India today.
 

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