VSHORAD Tender for Air Defence

Discussion in 'Indian Air Force' started by Neil, Jan 8, 2012.

?

WHICH : VSHORAD SHOULD INDIA BUY??

  1. RBS 70/NG – SAAB’s RBS 70

    28.8%
  2. StarStreak

    22.0%
  3. MISTRAL-2

    20.3%
  4. IGLA-S (SA-24)

    22.0%
  5. CHIRON

    6.8%
  1. ezsasa

    ezsasa Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2014
    Messages:
    7,165
    Likes Received:
    11,344
    Location:
    Hyderabad, Andhra Pradesh, India
    Army’s VSHORAD tender to go for re-confirmatory trials

    The $5.2 billion contract is intended for Army and Navy
    SAAB of Sweden has begun training engineers of Bharat Forge under a proposed joint venture in anticipation of a contract to supply air defence systems to the Army.

    The move comes even as SAAB is gearing up for confirmatory trials for the Very Short Range Air Defence Systems (VSHORAD) tender, while it makes an aggressive pitch for the Short Range Surface to Air Missile (SRSAM) tender.

    These systems are meant to replace the legacy Russian air defence systems in service and have seen repeated delays.

    In June, the Defence Acquisition Council (DAC), the highest authority for defence procurements, reviewed the status of both air defence programmes and decided to “keep the ongoing procurement process going in a multi-vendor situation.”

    Missiles and launchers
    The VSHORAD tender is intended for the Army and Navy and worth over $5.2-billion for 5,175 missiles and 1,276 single and multi-launchers with stipulated technology transfer requirement for the Defence Public Sector Undertakings (DPSU).

    There are three contenders — SAAB, MBDA of France and Rosoboronexport of Russia. SAAB has fielded its RBS 70 system for the tender. The trials which began in May 2012 are still ongoing.

    “Trials will continue on the VSHORAD which are called confirmatory trials in the coming months. Since all three vendors have been called for new trials all have some non-compliances,” said Bo Almqvist of SAAB, who handles air defence systems for the Swedish defence and aerospace major which clocked $3 billion in sales in 2015. Explaining their non-compliance, he said according to the Request for Proposal (RFP), the missile should weigh 25 kg, man portable firing station 25 kg and sight with power pack 20kg. “We have that in a different order. Our sighting system includes the beamer and weighs 25 kg and the firing station includes the stand with the power pack which is 20 kg. That is our non-compliance,” Dr. Almqvist added.

    The stand itself was redesigned after inputs from the Indian Army that it was too heavy, he said adding that the lighter variant was now standard feature for all systems under production.


    Dr. Almqvist said that both their systems are “command line of sight” which means the target is tracked till impact due to which the system is “jamming resistant” and can be aborted after launch.

    Joint venture
    The SRSAM requirement is for two regiments consisting of 52 missile firing units, 18 radars and 1980 missiles and is worth about Rs.12,000-14,000 crore.

    SAAB has fielded its BAMSE system with a range of 20 km which is mounted on an Ashok Leyland truck. In anticipation of the order, it has begun training engineers from Kalyani Strategic Systems Ltd (KSSL), the defence arm of Bharat Forge at its facility in Karlskoga, company officials said.

    “The idea is to set up an Assembly, Test and Integration (AIT) facility and some part of production as part of our long term commitment under Make in India,” Dr. Almqvist said.

    The possible location of the JV is Satara in Maharashtra which will be finalised once the winner is announced likely by end of this year. KSSL is already supplying rear steering fins for the BAMSE missile by 3D printing.

    The Army which is inducting the indigenously developed Akash SRSAM with a range of 25 km is looking for a quick reaction missile for which the current tender is under way.

    (The writer was in Sweden at the invitation of SAAB)

    http://www.thehindu.com/news/nation...-for-reconfirmatory-trials/article9204513.ece
     
  2. SajeevJino

    SajeevJino Long walk Elite Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2012
    Messages:
    5,826
    Likes Received:
    3,128
    Location:
    Inside a Cage
    for what purpose Navy also need these VSHROD... The bloody government spent few more penny to accelerate the Maitri project and fit those SR SAM in mini boats
     
  3. Prashant12

    Prashant12 Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2014
    Messages:
    1,895
    Likes Received:
    8,537
    Location:
    Mumbai
    As Army evaluates foreign missile systems, govt considers building indigenous variant under Make in India

    A defence ministry proposal has suggested that the DRDO develop very short-range air defence systems under Make in India even as the Army looks at foreign vendors for a similar missile system.


    Even as the army evaluates the missile systems of global vendors for a deal expected to be worth over Rs 12,000 crore, the defence ministry is moving towards indigenous development of similar very short-range air defence systems to promote Make in India.

    A discussion took place at a high-level meeting in the defence ministry by top government and military officials where it was proposed that the DRDO (Defence Research and Development Organisation) should go ahead to develop the Very Short Range Air Defence System (VSHORAD) in the country itself, defence sources told Mail Today.

    The development is taking place at a time when foreign vendors from three countries - Russia, France and Sweden - have fielded their systems for procurement by the Army to replace their vintage IGLA shoulder-fired air defence systems.


    The plan to develop the missile system which can strike targets at ranges of six to seven kms indigenously is being considered as the NDA government has come up with a missile policy which states that the country should become self-reliant in fields of missile by the year 2022, the sources said.

    In recent times, the NDA government has moved very fast in favour of indigenous missile systems over the ones to be procured from foreign vendors as it decided to go in for home grown Akash air defence missiles over the ones developed by foreign vendors which were being tried by the army.

    The government is also thinking of doing away with the plans to build a single-engine fighter aircraft programme in favour of the light combat aircraft Tejas which is still in the evolution stage in terms of technology and capabilities.


    The ongoing global tender for the VSHORADS is also moving very slowly as after over five years in trials and re-trials, the defence ministry has reached the general staff evaluation stage and formed a technical oversight committee to look into the procedures followed by the tender procedure.

    Under VSHORAD tender, Indian Army and Indian Navy plan to procure 5,175 missiles and 1,276 single and multi-launchers worth over Rs 15,000 crore with the transfer of technology to Indian defence sector partner for local manufacturing in the country.

    Sources in the army said even though every contender has been given opportunity to make themselves compliant with the requirements of the tender as some of them were non-compliant in some fields.

    The army has been giving chances to the vendors as it does not want to come to a single vendor situation as the defence ministry is strictly against single-vendor cases as they create a monopoly situation.


    http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/...us-variant-under-make-in-india/1/1091365.html
     
    Kay likes this.
  4. Wisemarko

    Wisemarko Regular Member

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2016
    Messages:
    147
    Likes Received:
    243
    Location:
    California
    Even as low bidder, Russia’s Rosoboronexport may still loose air defense program in India
    By: Vivek Raghuvanshi   Defense News

    [​IMG]
    Venezuelan Defense Minister Padrino Lopez mans a Russian-made 9K338 "Igla-S" (SA-18) man-portable air-defence (MANPAD) surface-to-air missile launcher during a military training in Caracas. Rosoboronexport emerged as lowest bidder in the Indian army’s $1.5 billion very short range air defense program, pitching the Igla-S, but the Russian company may still loose the contract. (Juan Barreto/AFP/Getty Images)

    NEW DELHI – Even though Rosoboronexport has emerged as lowest bidder in the Indian army’s $1.5 billion very short range air defense or VSHORAD program, the Russian company may loose the contract following serious complaints from the other competitors in the fray.

    The Indian Ministry of Defence last week opened the commercial bids of the long pending VSHORAD program, in which Rosoboronexport was declared lowest bidder against Saab of Sweden and MBDA of France, a senior MoD official said.

    “But the Russian defense company is not going to get [VSHORAD] contract any time soon and the program may face cancellation following complaints from one of the competitor,” he noted.

    The Indian Army floated a restricted global tender for purchase of more than 5,000 VSHORAD portable systems to Saab of Sweden, Rafael of Israel, MBDA and Thales of France, Raytheon of United States, Rosoboronexport of Russia and LIG Nex 1 of South Korea. Rafael, Thales and LIG Nex 1 did not qualify after the technical evaluation and Raytheon did not participate in the bid. Only Igla-S by Rosoboronexport, RBS 70 NG by Saab and Mistral by MBDA were qualified for trials after completion of technical evaluation in 2012.

    The Indian army conducted two rounds of separate trials before opening the commercial bids last week. A senior service official said the “Indian army discovered Igla-S system fielded by Rosoboronexport to be non-compliant and not-recommended for induction into the service because it failed missile locking and direct hit repeatedly during both separate trials.”

    However, the Russian system was permitted and eventually approved by some officials within the service and MoD, despite the strict defense procurement guidelines that non-compliant systems should be rejected outright.

    MoD is not expected to award this contact anytime soon, given the current funds crunch in India. Any award to a Russian company could also lead to U.S. sanctions under the Countering America’s Adversaries through Sanctions Act or CAATSA, another MoD official noted. He also pointed to plans for a thorough review before any decision is made to move forward or cancel this program.

    Of the 5,175 missiles and associated equipment sought in the VSHORAD program, 2,315 missiles are to be bought in fully formed condition, 260 semi- knocked down condition and 1,000 missiles in completely knocked down condition and 600 missiles will be produced in India. In addition, Indian army is seeking other equipments including launchers, sensors, thermal imaging sights and command & control units.

    An executive with the industry group, Federation of Indian Chambers of Commerce and Industry or FICCI, who requested anonymity alleged that the Russian company never followed the technology transfer norms in the VSHORAD program. Since the tender involved domestic transfer of technology, Saab teamed up with state-owned Bharat Electronics Ltd and MBDA tied-up with private sector Larsen & Toubro Ltd, but Rosoboronexport chose to go alone.

    “Indian defense forces including army and the air force have large requirements of short range air defense systems,” said Mahindra Singh, a retired army major general. “It makes sense to produce these systems in the country with full transfer of technology from suitable overseas original equipment manufacturers.”
     
    binayak95 likes this.
  5. darshan978

    darshan978 Regular Member

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2017
    Messages:
    284
    Likes Received:
    364
    nice paid article by western companies .................
     
    aditya10r and undeadmyrmidon like this.
  6. BON PLAN

    BON PLAN -*- Senior Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2015
    Messages:
    2,667
    Likes Received:
    963
    Location:
    South of PARIS, France
    a fail is a fail. From a russian equipment or not.
     
  7. Wisemarko

    Wisemarko Regular Member

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2016
    Messages:
    147
    Likes Received:
    243
    Location:
    California
    Are you saying Russian missile passed all the tests?
    Or that India doesn’t care if Russians pass or fail?
    Or that India doesn’t care who wins the tests because no one is going to get any contract?

    Sometimes accusations need little more details.
     
  8. AUSTERLITZ

    AUSTERLITZ Regular Member

    Joined:
    May 25, 2013
    Messages:
    40
    Likes Received:
    45
    Location:
    India
    Useless waste of money by army and navy.Army doesn't have money or competence to get basic assault and sniper rifles,and lmgs for our dying troops at LOC wasting billions on this shit.They even cancelled BMS part of F-INSAS.
    Why does navy need this?Use baraks or CIWS.

    Outdated attitudes and mismanagement of resources by both services as well as MoD.
     
    Samsung J7 likes this.
  9. Chinmoy

    Chinmoy Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2015
    Messages:
    3,509
    Likes Received:
    4,711
    Where is IN even mentioned in it?

    And you are talking about procurement of basic AR and sniper rifles and then again talking about dropping BMS. If you have followed the trends, you would have known that BMS was dropped for those basic weapon procurement as per Vice COAS.
     
  10. AUSTERLITZ

    AUSTERLITZ Regular Member

    Joined:
    May 25, 2013
    Messages:
    40
    Likes Received:
    45
    Location:
    India
    We need both BMS and rifles.Instead army wastes money on bmp-2 uppgrade and vshorads.Face it,there isn't going to be a huge mechanized war anytime soon under nuclear umbrella ,so spending billions on old bmp-2 upgrade and short range MANPADs should be much less priority than equipping our soldiers on the LOC facing lief and death every day.Only after infantry needs are met should these fancy items be looked at.First and foremost we need to take care of infantry and artillery because our top priorities should be LOC and china border ,both of which are mountainous.
     
    Samsung J7 likes this.
  11. Chinmoy

    Chinmoy Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2015
    Messages:
    3,509
    Likes Received:
    4,711
    Your point on BMS only is correct. Everything else is false to the core.

    BMP upgrade is not necessary? Are you sure? You are saying about providing basic ammenities to a combatant and you are ignoring the basic troop movement equipment in a warzone for that?
    Mechanized warfare is to be here and you can't ignore it. Recent exercise by IA showed their doctrine. Nuclear umbrella or no nuclear umbrella, you can't win a war unless you take the war to your enemy. Going by your logic, we should shun our tank force too.

    MANPADS are one of the most important part of any air defence on ground troop level. Just imagine if something like Kargil happens again and PAF plays an active part in it. You can't depend entirely on IAF for 24/7 protection of ground force. Neither you could have the umbrella protection of SAM over there.

    By not giving priority at time to these aspects has brought us where we are today.
     
    Zer0 and Prashant12 like this.
  12. AUSTERLITZ

    AUSTERLITZ Regular Member

    Joined:
    May 25, 2013
    Messages:
    40
    Likes Received:
    45
    Location:
    India
    Man,you are not realistic.You see MoD telling army to get leaner,that there is no money and you act as if there is.Bulk (over 60%) of budget goes to salaries and pensions and maintainence of current assets leaving very little to capital acquisitions.So we have to prioritize.So now you tell me what is more of a priority,to bring our soldiers dying everyday on the LOC to world class level in terms of electronics,armour and weapons or ignoring them and focusing limited resources on first equipping mechanized formations and point defence sams even though we are getting s-400 and barak-mrsam and akash and spyder.And we also have tunguskas.PAF can do shit against us atm.Under nuclear umbrella mass mechanized warfare should be secondary priority than china border and LOC,but army HQ thinks this is still era of blitzkrieg and they are rommels.BMP-2 is an old vehicle which won't last long,it is an obsolete vehicle with terrible armour and we shouldn't waste billions upgrading it.We should instead after a few more years just replace it altogether with FICV on the armata/kurganets model.
     
    Samsung J7 likes this.
  13. Samsung J7

    Samsung J7 Regular Member

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2018
    Messages:
    480
    Likes Received:
    494
  14. Samsung J7

    Samsung J7 Regular Member

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2018
    Messages:
    480
    Likes Received:
    494
  15. darshan978

    darshan978 Regular Member

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2017
    Messages:
    284
    Likes Received:
    364

    Attached Files:

  16. Chinmoy

    Chinmoy Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2015
    Messages:
    3,509
    Likes Received:
    4,711
    You are not realistic as a matter of fact.

    You are quoting something which government coined 4 years back regarding raising a new mountain corp.

    Equipment like VSHORAD are basic equipment for troops posted in LOC. These are not something which you would use on a full blown war scenario only. These weapon systema re to take down any aerial threat on a day to day basis. This threat level could be anything from a surveillance drone to a attack helicopter.

    You are talking about S400, MRSAM, Akash to replace VSHORAD? Are you serious? These are area defence weapon, not point defence. On one hand you are talking of equiping soldiers on LOC and on other hand you are talking of system which you can't deploy on LOC. Moreover system like Tunguska are for mechanised infantry again, not for a infantryman on border patrol. Just try to think before you write.

    On one hand you are crying on low budget and on other you want us to wait for and go to system like Armata. Do you think they would come cheap? Moreover do you think they would come equip for your NBC warfare?

    India is upgrading is current fleet of BMP to fight a NBC warfare. It would have to upgrade your Armata and FICV fleet too for your so called war under nuclear umbrella. You simply can't ignore your mechanized infantry because your opponent is talking about nuke at a drop of hat. Try to get realistic.
     
  17. porky_kicker

    porky_kicker Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2016
    Messages:
    1,034
    Likes Received:
    3,487
    Yes you are correct

    Many assume that different types of SAMs work in standalone mode.

    They actually complement each other to provide fullproof air defence capability.

    Long range SAMs have the lowest kill probability when the odds r against them, in the worst case scenario their job is to force the hostile to either abort their mission or force them to drop altitude so that they end up in the kill zone of either medium range SAMs or VSHORADs

    The medium range SAMs have better kill probability than long range SAMs , but even then in worse case scenario they will get a mission kill or force the hostile to drop altitude so that they end up in the kill zone of VSHORADs/short range SAMs or in the best case scenario get a K-kill.

    VSHORADs or short range SAMs have the best kill probability of the three SAM types.
    They have high probability of K kill against the hostiles trying to out manuver/dodge the persuing long or medium range SAMs.

    A fighter aircraft will not take to high altitudes if a long or medium range missile is on to them.
    They will only do so if they detect the same from far and then drop their load and engage the afterburner to outrun it. Otherwise they will drop altitude and try to out manuver it ,hoping to gain advantage from the ground clutter and more pronounced energy bleed at lower altitudes etc.
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2018
    Chinmoy likes this.
  18. Enquirer

    Enquirer Regular Member

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2018
    Messages:
    250
    Likes Received:
    196
    I think you have the cause and effect reversed!
    If you look at historical statistics, it might be true that most aircraft fell prey to VSHORADS. But that's not because they're the most potent et al. It's just that historically there weren't that many long range SAMs deployed - even today there're only a handful of countries that've deployed long range SAMs! But every country worth its name has MRSAMs & VSHORADS!!
    Secondly, fighter aircraft in CAS role are the most vulnerable - flying low & flying slow! These are easy targets for VSHORADS!
    That said, the deterrence provided by long range SAMs is more effective than the lethality itself!
    Most countries (including Iran, Iraq, Pakistan etc) ground their aircraft and hide them when confronted with an adversary that has MRSAM or LRSAM (but will risk their aircraft against VSHORADS!).
     
    Chinmoy likes this.

Share This Page