Usefullness of BVR combat

bennedose

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Iraq vs NATO/USA is the worst possible example to say BVR combat is the future.

The coalition forces used to maintain "no fly zones" where anything flying would be shot down at BVR ranges.

But in a combat scenario where two sides are more evenly matched, IFF will be a big problem and that will lead to more WVR

In other words - If India wants to take on USA - they will be shooting down IAF at BVR ranges.

Against Pakistan or China there will be more WVR.
 

HeinzGud

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Iraq vs NATO/USA is the worst possible example to say BVR combat is the future.

The coalition forces used to maintain "no fly zones" where anything flying would be shot down at BVR ranges.

But in a combat scenario where two sides are more evenly matched, IFF will be a big problem and that will lead to more WVR

In other words - If India wants to take on USA - they will be shooting down IAF at BVR ranges.

Against Pakistan or China there will be more WVR.
There is no such thing as BVR kill. It is almost impossible unless your opponent is an idiot. BVR will eventually develop into the WVR. It is the policy of your side whether you should take on enemy in WVR or BVR. AFAIK US pilots were specifically ordered not to fall into WVR fights with Iraqi MiG 29s during dessert campaigns.
 

p2prada

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Did i raise LCA name? It was a generic sentence...:namaste:
LCA is generic too. It just means Light Combat Aircraft. Not a direct reference to Tejas. :thumb:

Maybe I was talking about JF-17 or Gripen.
 

ersakthivel

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May be that is why IAF is not happy with it.
I guess.
They love to splash 20 billion on the 4.5th gen plane with world's smallest asea radar among all modern 4.5th gen fighters!!!!
 

ersakthivel

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Fighter planes cant pull 8Gs, 9Gs with full external load of weapons and external fuel tanks.

So no matter

how good the plane,

how heavy a plane ,

how many BVR missiles it can carry,

how much tech it has,

it has to shed all its external weapons as the first rule before taking evasive actions.

because most of the 9G airshow stunts can be pulled only in full monty, i.e, clean config with no external weapons(or at the most with a few WVR missiles).

So effectively the mission is over once you are found out and fired at.

100 million , 200 million or 26 million may be the cost of the plane. but it has to drop its LGBs excess fuel tanks, fire off its BVR missiles before taking high G evasive turns.

Because there is no guarantee that counter measures will work in tomorrow's EW environs. A skilled pilot and a costly plane can not be risked on the reliability of the electronic counter measures against BVR missiles alone.He must be ready to take those 9 g turns to save his plane and himself.

Then WVR battle follows.

So it does not matter whether the enemy is a light fighter or heavy fighter, number of fighters in air is non negotiable.

Thats why there is always a school of though that strongly believes that investing more and more in a single platform, making it costly and heavy with attendant higher detection possibilities against higher wavelength and QWIP equipped IR missile seekers is an unrealistic exercise grounded in fantasy realm of all BVR fights.

Thats why I said number of pylons, thousands of Kms of ranges, tons and tons of weapons carried alone may not always be the winner against well equipped smaller modern 4.5th gen lighter fighters which have fewer BVR missiles and lesser detection possibilities across the spectrum of detection techniques .

And lesser cost more in number for the same budget smaller fighters will be at four places at the same time, while four times costly heavy fighter can be only at one place for the same cost, which makes a world of difference in the WVR battle that happens after all the BVR missiles are fired.
 
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Anoop Sajwan

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I have no clue about it so do elaborate
Sending signal track and easily give away your location...?
Will It not increase the response time...?
Can or Can it not be manipulated?
Sending signal will help enemy to locate your location without use of his radar, that's why author mention that IFF will give your position to your enemy and you would be exposed.

Response is just in limte under few mili-seconds, so not that problem. But still it is on pilot that he take IFF output as authentic or wait for further confirmation like vai awacs, or visual pods etc.

Yes it can be manipulated but not that easy. Even IAF which import nearly every thing uses Indian IFF. To manipulate an IFF, you need certain codes which is used in your enemy. If you get access to those than you can send fake singals to your enemy and make him think that you are friendly. That's why pilots still have to hear their heart rather than believing in IFF. But it certainly have few advantages.
 

Pulkit

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I have no knowledge in this field, but whenever i play my FA-18 hornet simulator(bad graphics but still pretty accurate), many times it fails to distinguish b/t enemy and friend. There might be radio contact possible b/t friendly fighters in real world, Cannot confirm though :confused:
same here boss ....
Sending signal will help enemy to locate your location without use of his radar, that's why author mention that IFF will give your position to your enemy and you would be exposed.

Response is just in limte under few mili-seconds, so not that problem. But still it is on pilot that he take IFF output as authentic or wait for further confirmation like vai awacs, or visual pods etc.

Yes it can be manipulated but not that easy. Even IAF which import nearly every thing uses Indian IFF. To manipulate an IFF, you need certain codes which is used in your enemy. If you get access to those than you can send fake singals to your enemy and make him think that you are friendly. That's why pilots still have to hear their heart rather than believing in IFF. But it certainly have few advantages.
so i short that is a short fall for BVR....

Lets say you are A, you have your radar on, on the radar you see a reading B. Now, B is already being hit by your radar waves. He has a small device in his aircraft called IFF transponder. When B's IFF transponder is hit by radar waves, it sends back a response. A will catch that response and analyze it. If the response is same as is used by A and his friends, B is A's friend, else B is an enemy.

What?
@Defcon i think the first two posts address my query but your post is a bit confusing to me....
 

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