US should do more to boost India's defence capabilities: Singh

[ice berg]

Why the china comparison? Indian nuclear deal has many military reactors also part of the deal.

The point been civilian reactors has nothing to do with this topic. And your source that many military reactors also part of the deal?

 

[LETHALFORCE]

The point been civilian reactors has nothing to do with this topic. And your source that many military reactors also part of the deal?

USA has allowed all future fast breeder reactors to be on the military side
Just one example. All fissile material on military side second example.
Indigenous uranium for military use and us uranium for civilian use third example.
And since you like comparisons more fissile material than china.

 

[drkrn]

Does india really need the technology? Look at p8i as an example
US hardware and the software was indian, look at smerch deal with
Russia trucks Russian 32 different rocket options made in india.
The issue is not technology but lack of political will by India.

what about situations when there are sanctions??
we can not rely on us

 

[LETHALFORCE]

what about situations when there are sanctions??
we can not rely on us

This design is more or less abandoned but nuclear deals with other countries have progressed.

 

[nimo_cn]

who is gonna buy American weapons if US helps everyone build their own?

Sent from my HUAWEI T8951 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Virendra]

for starter, india is not an ally of US, thus limit on type of technology US will be selling. F35 type is out of question. also most india equipment are from russia, so integrate with US tech would be a headche.

I think the Russians would be smiling at their predecessors foresight, when they compare their transaction history with & buying capacity of India vis a vis Pakistan. Both are clients of Russia and US respectively.
They have a good long term customer in us. It will be difficult and time consuming for India to move away even if it wanted to.

Regards,
Virendra

 

[DivineHeretic]

@DivineHeretic



That idea is a red flag to many on DFI, too. Surprised there has not been an outcry from the usual suspects.

I believe you may have misjudged the intent of my comment

I have not commented on what he has said, rather I've only pointed out that nothing of that sort has been said by the General, either explicitly or by implicit.

But yes, what you say is quite true and is not for no reason. We have suffered the consequences of several US led sanctions, one during the 1965 war, the next after the 1974 Nuclear Test and more recently after the 1998 Shakti tests.

Each time our military suffered and assets became liabilities. So forgive us if we dont have the same enthusiasm as we did in '62. 51 years have taught us enough.

But, yah, I do wish for better ties between the two nations.
But only as equals.

The article implies the general asking US to toss us freebies to strengthen us. It would mean that we have to beg or request the US for more capability. Im essence we would have placed the responsibility of boosting Indian capability upon the US. That riles me up, primarily beause no self respecting nation bows down to others and demand freebies from them.

I do not mean to say We should not buy assets from the US, but anything we buy must be financed by us, and JV must be invested by us as much as them, and any deal between the two nations should be amongst equals.

Nothng more, and absolutely nothing less.

 

[DivineHeretic]

I think the Russians would be smiling at their predecessors foresight, when they compare their transaction history with & buying capacity of India vis a vis Pakistan. Both are clients of Russia and US respectively.
They have a good long term customer in us. It will be difficult and time consuming for India to move away even if it wanted to.

Regards,
Virendra

The Russians have even more to thank the US than just that.

The USSR had effectively abandoned India in 1962, choosing to side with brothers 'China' over friend 'India'. Almost every man in Delhi at the time knew this. The Americans had come to our aid when we were at out lowest as a nation. When we had no one to turn to.

And yet, thanks to the stupidity of successive US administrations, 9 years later nobody even cared what the US had done a decade back on the streets. The USSR, stung by brother China in 1969, found India just as they had her, alone and weak and grateful for their support.

I personally believe the Soviets were stunned by their good fortune. One they have milked till this day.

 

[drkrn]

who is gonna buy American weapons if US helps everyone build their own?

Sent from my HUAWEI T8951 using Tapatalk 2

by the time we start building the weapons we get via tot,a whole lot new generation of weapons arise in USA,the bed of R&D
then the whole world will be watching it with open mouths astonished at their tech marvel

 

[drkrn]

The Russians have even more to thank the US than just that.

The USSR had effectively abandoned India in 1962, choosing to side with brothers 'China' over friend 'India'. Almost every man in Delhi at the time knew this. The Americans had come to our aid when we were at out lowest as a nation. When we had no one to turn to.

And yet, thanks to the stupidity of successive US administrations, 9 years later nobody even cared what the US had done a decade back on the streets. The USSR, stung by brother China in 1969, found India just as they had her, alone and weak and grateful for their support.

I personally believe the Soviets were stunned by their good fortune. One they have milked till this day.

valid points.

why did us policy shifted away from india then??

 

[no smoking]

The Russians have even more to thank the US than just that.

The USSR had effectively abandoned India in 1962, choosing to side with brothers 'China' over friend 'India'. Almost every man in Delhi at the time knew this. The Americans had come to our aid when we were at out lowest as a nation. When we had no one to turn to.

Can you tell what aid USSR provided to Chinese in 1962? I really don't think there is any. At that time, Sino-Soviet dispute already started. On the contrary, soviet had taken the side of india in Sino-India border issue.

http://www.du.edu/korbel/jais/journal/volume1/volume1_abitbol.pdf

Quote:
"The Soviets pressured the PRC to acknowledge Indian border claims, and Sino-Soviet relations strained under their own border issues (Vertzberger 1984, 88)."

"Not only did the Soviets urge China to a settlement counter to their interests, but they openly aided India in both the construction of a domestic MIG program and a pledge to help them develop nuclear energy (Vertzberger 1984, 87)."

 

[drkrn]

Can you tell what aid USSR provided to Chinese in 1962? I really don't think there is any. At that time, Sino-Soviet dispute already started. On the contrary, soviet had taken the side of india in Sino-India border issue.

http://www.du.edu/korbel/jais/journal/volume1/volume1_abitbol.pdf

Quote:
"The Soviets pressured the PRC to acknowledge Indian border claims, and Sino-Soviet relations strained under their own border issues (Vertzberger 1984, 88)."

"Not only did the Soviets urge China to a settlement counter to their interests, but they openly aided India in both the construction of a domestic MIG program and a pledge to help them develop nuclear energy (Vertzberger 1984, 87)."

where did the post mention ,that ussr supplied aid to china?

 

[no smoking]

where did the post mention ,that ussr supplied aid to china?

Then tell me how you come to the conclusion:

"The USSR had effectively abandoned India in 1962, choosing to side with brothers 'China' over friend 'India'."?

 

[drkrn]

Then tell me how you come to the conclusion:

"The USSR had effectively abandoned India in 1962, choosing to side with brothers 'China' over friend 'India'."?

one is better than the other simple.our relation with russia is not mature enough as we are not a communist nation

 

[DivineHeretic]

@no smoking, @drkrn.....

I apologise for not furnishinh proof of my post earlier.

Khrushchev had got the Russians involved in the Cuban Missile crisis. He invited the Chinese ambassador to a banquet and gave a long speech saying that if India is a friend, China is our brother. Also that Russia was willing to sacrifice the MiG-21 deal with India. The next day, Pravda actually published an article saying India is at fault — that demoralised the Indian leadership.

It so happened that, after the first week of attack, there was a pause. By that time the Cuban missile crisis had been solved and Khrushchev announced that the MiG-21 deal would go through

USSR didnt have to supply anything overtly to China, they simply demoralised Indian leadership.

http://www.hardnewsmedia.com/2012/10/5670?page=show

 

[no smoking]

@no smoking, @drkrn.....

Khrushchev had got the Russians involved in the Cuban Missile crisis. He invited the Chinese ambassador to a banquet and gave a long speech saying that if India is a friend, China is our brother. Also that Russia was willing to sacrifice the MiG-21 deal with India. The next day, Pravda actually published an article saying India is at fault — that demoralised the Indian leadership.

It so happened that, after the first week of attack, there was a pause. By that time the Cuban missile crisis had been solved and Khrushchev announced that the MiG-21 deal would go through

USSR didnt have to supply anything overtly to China, they simply demoralised Indian leadership.

Face to Face: Air Commodore Jasjit Singh (1962 Indo-China war) | Hard News

Yes, Khrushchev annouced that MIG-21 deal would go through immediately after the Cuban missile crisis was solved while Sino-India war was still carrying on. To Chinese, Russians didn't demoralise Indian but sending a clear message to Nehru: we are on your side.

 

[CCTV]

@no smoking, @drkrn.....

I apologise for not furnishinh proof of my post earlier.

Khrushchev had got the Russians involved in the Cuban Missile crisis. He invited the Chinese ambassador to a banquet and gave a long speech saying that if India is a friend, China is our brother. Also that Russia was willing to sacrifice the MiG-21 deal with India. The next day, Pravda actually published an article saying India is at fault — that demoralised the Indian leadership.

It so happened that, after the first week of attack, there was a pause. By that time the Cuban missile crisis had been solved and Khrushchev announced that the MiG-21 deal would go through

USSR didnt have to supply anything overtly to China, they simply demoralised Indian leadership.

Face to Face: Air Commodore Jasjit Singh (1962 Indo-China war) | Hard News

B.M. Kaul 's mi-8 helicopter is from Russia and captured by PLA.

 

[sob]

The Russians have even more to thank the US than just that.

The USSR had effectively abandoned India in 1962, choosing to side with brothers 'China' over friend 'India'. Almost every man in Delhi at the time knew this. The Americans had come to our aid when we were at out lowest as a nation. When we had no one to turn to.

And yet, thanks to the stupidity of successive US administrations, 9 years later nobody even cared what the US had done a decade back on the streets. The USSR, stung by brother China in 1969, found India just as they had her, alone and weak and grateful for their support.

I personally believe the Soviets were stunned by their good fortune. One they have milked till this day.

Early 60s were a very crucial period for defining the Indo US relationship for coming 30 years. In Ambassador Galbraith India had a friend who had direct access to the then US President Kennedy. In fact in one of his books Ambassador Galbraith mentions the entusiasm with which President Kennedy looked forward to the visit by Pandit Nehru and held Pandit Nehru on a very high esteem. Unfortunately during the visit of Pandit Nehru due to his health reasons or otherwise, it turned out to be a big disappointment to President Kennedy.

The outcome of the meeting could be gauged from this book based on interviews with the then First Lady

John F Kennedy, his wife Jacqueline did not vibe well with Jawaharlal Nehru, Indira Gandhi: Book - Economic Times

When Nehru visited the US in November 1961, the then American President Kennedy called it as "the worst head-of-State visit" and considered the former Prime Minister's last days as "the town preacher being caught in the whorehouse".

Kennedy also did not like Nehru's company while the First Lady Jackie Kennedy hated his daughter and future Prime Minister Indira Gandhi, calling her as real prune.

However, the first couple loved reading cables from the then US Ambassador to India, John Kenneth Galbriath, as they were all piece of great literature.

We also have another source on the meeting from the book by Robert J McMahon a Historian who wrote The Cold War on the Periphery: the United States, India, and Pakistan (1994),

In his book he mentions the highly successful visit of Ayub Khan to the US and compared to that during the visit of Pandit Nehru, both he and President Kennedy clashed on every issue. However there is a Chapter Tilting Towards India 1961-63 makes for a very interesting reading.

The Cold War on the Periphery: The United States, India, and Pakistan - Robert J. McMahon - Google Books

 

[SamwiseTheBrave]

here`s an idea although it sounds a bit weird : how about india should do more to boost India`s defence capabilities

 

[Tshering22]

It is not USA's fault that:

1- IJT-36 in a limbo despite quick delivery of Russian engines.

2- Tejas has become what Pakistanis and Chinese manage to name it Last Chance Aircraft.

3- Arjun Mk2 is already being opposed for expensive foreign imports.

4- No domestic attack submarine development taking place, with infinitive delays for Scorpene.

5- No artillery guns from DRDO reached the military till now -- so much for 'indigenous'.

6- No heavy howitzers from US have been delivered.

7- AMCA has been frozen indefinitely.

8- 8 years and still not sight of a single MRCA aircraft.

9- FINSAS program is long forgotten.

10- Even after 66 years of independence, it takes the regime 20+ years to raise mountain strike corps from Arunachal and SIkkim- 2 most potent and strategic border states.