US & Pakistan: The Growing Tensions
- Thread starter LETHALFORCE
- Start date
Blackwater
Senior Member
- Joined
- Jan 9, 2012
- Messages
- 21,156
- Likes
- 12,211
Blackwater
Senior Member
- Joined
- Jan 9, 2012
- Messages
- 21,156
- Likes
- 12,211
Pakistan should be dismantle on the basis of Yugoslavia ...
nrj
Ambassador
- Joined
- Nov 16, 2009
- Messages
- 9,658
- Likes
- 3,911
You know fellas math here is simple. A country which has thrown 20+ billion $ into Pak since 2002 will not just say bye-bye unless they earn more than the investment. US will milk Pak till the last drop.
They'll exploit Af-pak as long as they can & will leave a mess behind for India if at all current headache was not enough for GOI.
In the meantime Pak will keep wanking with cheap tricks.
They'll exploit Af-pak as long as they can & will leave a mess behind for India if at all current headache was not enough for GOI.
In the meantime Pak will keep wanking with cheap tricks.
Last edited:
thakur_ritesh
Ambassador
- Joined
- Feb 19, 2009
- Messages
- 4,435
- Likes
- 1,733
Its really a case of blowing hot and cold on part of the US if anything. Pakistan has been backstabbing the US for way too long now, but they are yet to make up their mind on how to deal with this mess called Pakistan, even today the little measures the US has taken seem to be no more than half-hearted measures at best.
Their long term interests suggest they stick around with Pakistan, short-mid term interests suggest otherwise and even there they seem to be caught in the indecisive territory in their thinking because they cant let go of them completely because of the US interests in afpak, CAR, iran.
Anyways its good to see Michael mullen, leon panetta, david petraeus and Hillary Clinton have started doing some hard talk with the Pakistanis which is now making the Pakistanis feel nervous and is forcing the pakistanis to come up with all these statements, but then just the talk bit wont help, its high time they started to hit the haqqani network wherever they are present in Pakistan irrespective of Pakistan joining in or not and not waste time which would give those terrorists enough time to move their assets out with the help of their masters in the Pakistani establishment.
Their long term interests suggest they stick around with Pakistan, short-mid term interests suggest otherwise and even there they seem to be caught in the indecisive territory in their thinking because they cant let go of them completely because of the US interests in afpak, CAR, iran.
Anyways its good to see Michael mullen, leon panetta, david petraeus and Hillary Clinton have started doing some hard talk with the Pakistanis which is now making the Pakistanis feel nervous and is forcing the pakistanis to come up with all these statements, but then just the talk bit wont help, its high time they started to hit the haqqani network wherever they are present in Pakistan irrespective of Pakistan joining in or not and not waste time which would give those terrorists enough time to move their assets out with the help of their masters in the Pakistani establishment.
johnee
Senior Member
- Joined
- Apr 1, 2009
- Messages
- 3,473
- Likes
- 499
Same thoughts. But for this balkanising plan to work, India will have to be part of it. US controls Bstan. India controls Pakjabistan and Sindh. India and US work in Astan(pashtun). Russia and China would want a part of the pie...
nrj
Ambassador
- Joined
- Nov 16, 2009
- Messages
- 9,658
- Likes
- 3,911
What are the chances Iran won't screw the party for a piece of cake?
pmaitra
Senior Member
- Joined
- Mar 10, 2009
- Messages
- 33,262
- Likes
- 19,594
Minus the massacres. Yugoslavia's disintegration was one of the most painful in recent history, for all the sides.
agentperry
Senior Member
- Joined
- Oct 24, 2010
- Messages
- 3,022
- Likes
- 690
i think present thing is in favor of india as with democracy they will ultimatly learn poliics and diplomacy which will be challenging for us only. its better for us to make pakistan spend solely ( still insignificant) on defence such that its middle class can wither away and sooner or later it can be bought on table to trade remaining kashmir and ultimately peace BY MAKING THEM SURRENDER.
im sorry for my inhuman thoughts ( high five devil)
im sorry for my inhuman thoughts ( high five devil)
- Joined
- Mar 24, 2009
- Messages
- 24,324
- Likes
- 11,757
The Gloves Come Off
On Sept. 22, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Adm. Mike Mullen and Defense Secretary Leon Panetta testified before Congress that the Haqqani network, the group that launched the Sept. 13 attack on the U.S. Embassy in Kabul, is a "veritable arm" of the Pakistani Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) Directorate. Public testimony has been matched by tough talk in private, including in meetings between CIA chief David Petraeus and ISI chief Ahmed Shuja Pasha and between U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton and her counterpart, Pakistani Foreign Minister Hina Rabbani Khar.
On Sept. 22, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Adm. Mike Mullen and Defense Secretary Leon Panetta testified before Congress that the Haqqani network, the group that launched the Sept. 13 attack on the U.S. Embassy in Kabul, is a "veritable arm" of the Pakistani Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) Directorate. Public testimony has been matched by tough talk in private, including in meetings between CIA chief David Petraeus and ISI chief Ahmed Shuja Pasha and between U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton and her counterpart, Pakistani Foreign Minister Hina Rabbani Khar.
Iamanidiot
Senior Member
- Joined
- Dec 21, 2009
- Messages
- 5,325
- Likes
- 1,504
Absoultely none Pak is nowhere close to be declared a terrorist state
- Joined
- Aug 18, 2010
- Messages
- 1,314
- Likes
- 149
US fires fresh salvo at Pakistan, tells it to rein in ISI
Getting more interesting... Join the game US
Brushing aside Islamabad's rebuttal, the US has fired fresh salvos charging Pakistan's military-run ISI of not only supporting the Haqqani terror network but also 'encouraging' it to launch more brazen strikes on American installations in Afghanistan.
Demanding a "strong and immediate action" against the outfit, US officials said Haqqani group's activities have become "more brazen, more aggressive and more lethal".
Captain John Kirby, spokesperson of Chairman Joint Chiefs of Staff Admiral Mullen, told Pentagon reporters last evening that there has been a long-standing historical relationship between the ISI and extremist groups.
Kirby said: "There has been a lot of activity over the course of this summer - the hotel attack in Kabul, Wardak truck bomb, attack on the embassy and others smaller level operations. It has been a very busy summer for the Haqqani network. It has gone worse."
He added "Their (Haqqani's) activities have become more brazen, more aggressive and more lethal. Information has become more available that these attacks have been supported or encouraged by the ISI. The Chairman (Mullen) just had the conversation with (Pakistan army chief) General (Ashfaq Parvez) Kayani last week in Spain. He said this because this is the truth."
"All I can tell you that we are confident that the ISI continues to support and even encourages the Haqqanis to launch these attacks. I am not going into, at this point, specifics of the intelligence that we have about the support they have we believe," he said.
However, Kirby said Mullen has not spoken to Pakistan Army chief Gen Ashfaq Pavrvez Kayani after his Congressional testimony on Thursday in which he described the Haqqani network as a "veritable arm" of the ISI.
US remarks unfortunate: Kayani
The war of words between Pakistan and the US on the ISI's alleged links with the Haqqani terror network has further escalated with Pakistan Army chief Gen Ashfaq Parvez Kayani describing US military chief Admiral Mike Mullen's accusations as "not based on facts".
In a statement issued by the military last evening, the powerful army chief described Mullen's remarks as "as very unfortunate and not based on facts".
He added: "This is especially disturbing in view of a rather constructive meeting with Admiral Mullen in Spain."
The Pakistani military had maintained a studied silence as several US officials linked the Inter-Services Intelligence agency to the Haqqani terror network and called on Islamabad to take action against the Taliban faction based in the North Waziristan tribal region.
Kayani responded a day after Mullen accused the ISI of supporting the Haqqani network in carrying out a string of deadly terror attacks, including an assault on the US Embassy in Kabul on September 13.
Mullen said the Taliban faction was a "veritable arm" of Pakistan's spy agency.
The Pakistani military statement said: "On the specific question of contacts with the Haqqanis, (Kayani) said that Admiral Mullen knows fully well which all countries are in contact with the Haqqanis. Singling out Pakistan is neither fair nor productive."
The statement did not name the other countries that are in contact with the Haqqani network.
Kayani categorically denied US accusations of "proxy war and ISI support to Haqqanis" and said the "blame game in public statements should give way to a constructive and meaningful engagement for a stable and peaceful Afghanistan, an objective to which Pakistan is fully committed".
US fires fresh salvo at Pakistan, tells it to rein in ISI - The Times of India
Getting more interesting... Join the game US
Brushing aside Islamabad's rebuttal, the US has fired fresh salvos charging Pakistan's military-run ISI of not only supporting the Haqqani terror network but also 'encouraging' it to launch more brazen strikes on American installations in Afghanistan.
Demanding a "strong and immediate action" against the outfit, US officials said Haqqani group's activities have become "more brazen, more aggressive and more lethal".
Captain John Kirby, spokesperson of Chairman Joint Chiefs of Staff Admiral Mullen, told Pentagon reporters last evening that there has been a long-standing historical relationship between the ISI and extremist groups.
Kirby said: "There has been a lot of activity over the course of this summer - the hotel attack in Kabul, Wardak truck bomb, attack on the embassy and others smaller level operations. It has been a very busy summer for the Haqqani network. It has gone worse."
He added "Their (Haqqani's) activities have become more brazen, more aggressive and more lethal. Information has become more available that these attacks have been supported or encouraged by the ISI. The Chairman (Mullen) just had the conversation with (Pakistan army chief) General (Ashfaq Parvez) Kayani last week in Spain. He said this because this is the truth."
"All I can tell you that we are confident that the ISI continues to support and even encourages the Haqqanis to launch these attacks. I am not going into, at this point, specifics of the intelligence that we have about the support they have we believe," he said.
However, Kirby said Mullen has not spoken to Pakistan Army chief Gen Ashfaq Pavrvez Kayani after his Congressional testimony on Thursday in which he described the Haqqani network as a "veritable arm" of the ISI.
US remarks unfortunate: Kayani
The war of words between Pakistan and the US on the ISI's alleged links with the Haqqani terror network has further escalated with Pakistan Army chief Gen Ashfaq Parvez Kayani describing US military chief Admiral Mike Mullen's accusations as "not based on facts".
In a statement issued by the military last evening, the powerful army chief described Mullen's remarks as "as very unfortunate and not based on facts".
He added: "This is especially disturbing in view of a rather constructive meeting with Admiral Mullen in Spain."
The Pakistani military had maintained a studied silence as several US officials linked the Inter-Services Intelligence agency to the Haqqani terror network and called on Islamabad to take action against the Taliban faction based in the North Waziristan tribal region.
Kayani responded a day after Mullen accused the ISI of supporting the Haqqani network in carrying out a string of deadly terror attacks, including an assault on the US Embassy in Kabul on September 13.
Mullen said the Taliban faction was a "veritable arm" of Pakistan's spy agency.
The Pakistani military statement said: "On the specific question of contacts with the Haqqanis, (Kayani) said that Admiral Mullen knows fully well which all countries are in contact with the Haqqanis. Singling out Pakistan is neither fair nor productive."
The statement did not name the other countries that are in contact with the Haqqani network.
Kayani categorically denied US accusations of "proxy war and ISI support to Haqqanis" and said the "blame game in public statements should give way to a constructive and meaningful engagement for a stable and peaceful Afghanistan, an objective to which Pakistan is fully committed".
US fires fresh salvo at Pakistan, tells it to rein in ISI - The Times of India
Sikh_warrior
Professional
- Joined
- May 18, 2010
- Messages
- 504
- Likes
- 273
it will never happen!
dream on.....
dream on.....
- Joined
- Sep 15, 2010
- Messages
- 1,662
- Likes
- 526
"Pakistan" as a state is reresentated by several organizations/ groups -
1. there is the Military establishment - which has both pro-western side(s) and pro-silamic sides (opposed to each other), not to mention pro-"nationalistic" sides, which may overlap with the other two.
2. there is the political class, educated elite - again divided into pro-western, pro-islamic and pro-nationalistic groups.
3. there is the ISI/ intelligence network - whose allegiance is partly to the military and partly to the political bosses - with all it's own divisions and internal issues. Generally anti-western, extremely anti-Indian and thinks of itself as the godfather of Islamic insurgency in the south asian region.
4. there are the mercantile and business classes - who woud support any side to further their dollar interests.
None of them sadly represent or are represented by the Pakistani people - who have been brain washed with anti-Indian, anti-minority and anti-western rhetoric for the last 2-6 decades. Still, the average Pakistani is neither a terrorist, nor a muslim fundamentalist - they are like every other average citizen of the third world - trying to find a decent living with all the corruption and irrationality inherent to their society.
Yet - what is the definition of a "terrorist state"?
A state which by design allows / supports insurgents/ terrorists in another soverign country. Pakistan in taht respect has been a terrorist state for ages - sicne the 1980s. when they started arming and supporting the Mujahideens in Afghanistan, followed by the insurgents in J 7 K.
the real question is, WHO makes the definition and for what purpose -
We all know the real certificate has to come from USA - through the UN/ NATO. USA already knows what Pakistan did, has been doing and will do.
What will it take for the US government to make that leap, from knowledge to action?
