MQ9 Predator Acquisition from U.S, News Updates and Discussions

sorcerer

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India looks for Unmanned Combat Aircraft from U.S.
New Delhi: The Indian armed forces have suffered from time and technology challenges over the last 30 years, but apparently to make up for the lost time, the government has now approved the Indian Air Force's (IAF) requirements for unmanned combat aircraft, technically called Unmanned Combat Aerial Vehicles (UCAVs).

India has been buying Unmanned Aerial Vehicles (UAVs) from Israel from the late 1990s for the Army for surveillance (only) in border areas. But the success of US combat drones in Afghanistan in neutralising hostile targets with precision had prompted the Indian Air Force (IAF) to ask for these deadly pilotless attack machines several years back.

Reliable sources told India Strategic (www.indiastrategic.in) that India has officially mentioned the requirement for Predator C, built by General Atomics, during the visit of Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar to Washington in December, and that this is likely to be on the US-India bilateral agenda during the official visit of Prime Minister Narendra Modi there March-end.

He will be paying his first offical visit to the US this time at the invitation of President Barack Obama, and discussions are on between the officials of the two countries to prepare for what should be on the table for appending signatures during the high-level visit.

India has interest in both Predator XP, which is available for export right away after procedural clearance from the US Departments of State and Defense as it only carries cameras and surveillance equipment, and the Predator C, which can execute precision attacks on terrorists and their vehicles and houses alike.

The armed version however cannot be acquired by India from any country unless it is cleared by the Missile Technology Control Regime (MTCR), one of the four denial regimes set up against India after its 1974 nuclear test. :blah:

The United States, which has spearheaded a campaign for global cooperation with India after 2005 in civil nuclear energy, has promised to have this restriction lifted.:hmm: The only reservation is from Italy:bs:, which is upset over the trial of two of its naval crew after they shot an Indian fisherman, mistaking him for a terrorist (The 34-member grouping requires unanimity in decision-making, and India's application for membership is pending since June 2015).

Notably, IAF has serious problems in the number of combat aircraft in its inventory, although now an agreement with France for the acquisition of 36 - or more - Rafale Medium Multi role Combat Aircraft (MMRCA) is on the anvil.

The acquisition of UCAVs however is a parallel requirement, and this was stated as such some years back by the then Chief of Air Staff Air Chief Marshal NAK Browne as a natural progression, particularly keeping in mind the hostile terror-infested environment around India.

Understandably both the UAVs and UCAVs are required by IAF, as these are strategically important - they have no pilots onboard and can be controlled from anywhere in the world through satellite communications. There could also be UCAV requirements from the Navy and Army, depending upon the capabilities of the emerging systems and cost factors.

India has been using Israeli Searcher and Heron UAVs. Israel successfully demonstrated the role of UCAVs before the US Air Force (USAF) inducted them, but it is not known if they are available to India as yet. Perhaps yes, as Israel has sold some sophisticated Electronic Warfare (EW) systems including radars to India already. But MTCR restriction would still need to be cleared.

The Indian Army first purchased the Israeli Searcher Mark-1 UAVs in view of the Pakistan's Kargil attacks in 1999, and then the IAF and Navy followed with their own requirements. The UAVs are used for surveillance in the border areas and at sea around the Indian Navy formations.

The armed version is a natural progression since then, and whether Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria or Libya, the western forces have extensively used them there to locate and destroy hostile targets without putting their pilots at harm's way.

The Predator C, also called Avenger, can fly for about 18 hours, carry some 1,400 kilos of weapons and missiles, and can be triggered into firing them from a command centre on land, ship or air.
There is no official confirmation from New Delhi - these are hardly stated to the press anyway - but there have been media reports in the recent past in this regard. And of course, as India's Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) is yet far away in delivering an indigenous system, the country has to look elsewhere.

General Atomics is a US jewel in technology in nuclear, electromagnetic propulsion and aerial systems. It picked up Dr Vivek Lall, who had successfully led Boeing's campaigns for selling military aircraft to the IAF and Indian Navy, as its Chief Executive, US and International Strategic Development. Although he has global responsibilities, India is his immediate focus given the fast-developing cooperation between Washington and New Delhi in defence and impending civil nuclear energy. A renowned aerospace scientist, Dr Lall is an American of Indian descent, and has worked also with NASA and Raytheon.

One of the items on his agenda is the sale of unmanned systems to friendly countries that the company designates in its lingo as Remotely Piloted Aircraft (RPAs) or Unmanned Aircraft Systems (UAS).

Asked about India's interest in Predator series of UAVs and UCAVs, Dr Lall said he was aware of it but could only say that while the Predator XP was available without any MTCR-related restrictions, any combat drone could only be sold by the US after Congressional clearance and export laws. He said he could not however confirm or deny if India had indeed asked for these lethal flying machines.

He commented though: The Predator-series RPA have been updated with state-of-the-art technologies, including an automatic takeoff and landing capability, redundant flight control surfaces, enhanced avionics, and triple-redundant flight control computers. GA-ASI (General Atomics - Aeronautical Systems Inc.) is also committed to developing a Detect and Avoid (DAA) capability for its RPA."

They are also useful in disaster relief operations on land and sea, giving real time information of critical areas and help guide personnel and equipment.
Another advantage, according to Dr Lall, was the interoperability of GA-supplied systems with US origin aircraft with IAF and Indian Navy.

Asked about possible transfer of technology and coproduction in India in view of the Indian Government's Make in India programme, he said General Atomics would be willing to work with international industrial partners, but that this would depend upon the agreements and diplomatic understandings between the US and India.

Source>>
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errrrrrrrrrrrrrrr...WHAT?
 

Panjab47

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Wow that's so cool, they 'allow' us dirty black kafir Indians to buy their jugaad maal made in China. :O
 

WolfPack86

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NEW DELHI: India is in talks with the United States to purchase 40 Predator surveillance drones, officials said, a possible first step towards acquiring the armed version of the aircraft and a development likely to annoy Pakistan.

India is trying to equip the military with more unmanned technologies to gather intelligence as well as boost its firepower along the vast land borders with Pakistan and China. It also wants a closer eye on the Indian Ocean.

New Delhi has already acquired surveillance drones from Israel to monitor the mountains of Kashmir.

As defence ties deepen with the United States, which sees India as a counterweight to China in the region, New Delhi has asked Washington for the Predator series of unmanned planes built by privately-held General Atomics, military officials said.

"We are aware of Predator interest from the Indian Navy. However, it is a government-to-government discussion," Vivek Lall, chief executive of US and International Strategic Development at San Diego-based General Atomics, told Reuters.

The US government late last year cleared General Atomics' proposal to market the unarmed Predator XP in India. It was not clear when the delivery of the drones would take place.

The navy wants them for surveillance in the Indian Ocean, where the pilotless aircraft can remain airborne for 35 hours at a stretch, at a time when the Chinese navy is expanding ship and submarine patrols in the region.

Moves by India to enhance its defence capabilities have in the past provoked sharp reactions from Islamabad, where the government and military are worried about falling further behind their bigger rival in the arms race.

Pakistan's foreign ministry could not be reached for comment on Friday, the start of the weekend there, while the military had no immediate comment.


Indian Air Force has also asked Washington about acquiring around 100 armed Predator C Avenger aircraft, which the United States has used to carry out strikes against Islamist militants in Pakistan's northwest and neighbouring Afghanistan.

But it would need clearance from the Missile Technology Control Regime group of 34 nations as well as approval from US Congress before any transfer of lethal Predators could happen, officials said.

The push for the drones comes as US defense secretary Ash Carter heads to India this weekend for talks to cement military collaboration in the final months of the Obama administration.
Indian military officials said they expected the request for the armed aircraft to figure in Carter's talks with his Indian counterpart, Manohar Parrikar.

Washington wants India to sign a set of agreements including on the use of each other's military bases that would help them operate together.

Prime Minister Narendra Modi's government has signalled its willingness to move forward with the proposed pacts after the previous administration did not act for more than a decade.

Retired air vice marshal Manmohan Bahadur said the proposed acquisition of armed Predators would give the military the ability to carry out cross-border strikes, or even attack targets lying deeper inside a neighbouring country.
"But at the end of the day, it's a political decision. It's one thing to lob artillery shells, its another to use air power, that's an escalation," he said.

India has not moved against Pakistan militarily despite blaming militant groups based there for orchestrating attacks on its soil including one on Mumbai in 2008, in part out of fear it would spiral into a broader conflict.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...y-US-Predator-drones/articleshow/51744677.cms
 

ezsasa

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For now I would be interested to find out whether predator can be used as cover for central forces in Maoist areas. It would be a great to respond to an ambush within minutes.

If predator, we have somewhat little to bother about American side of the human rights propaganda machines. However Chinese will use Yechuri and co to the fullest if this method is adopted.
 

Gessler

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We're looking to buy the Predator C version, otherwise known as Avenger. Which is jet-powered.

Not the propeller-driven versions. In that category only the Rustom-II and Israeli drones will be used.

 

Mikesingh

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The Avenger is powered by a Turbofan engine, and its design includes stealth features such as internal weapons storage, and an S-shaped exhaust for a reduced IR/radar signature. The Avenger will support the same weapons as the MQ-9, and carry the Lynx Synthetic Aperture Radar and a version of the F-35s electro-optical targeting system (EOTS), called the Advanced Low-observable Embedded Reconnaissance Targeting (ALERT) system.

Has an Internal weapons bay with 3,500 pounds (1,600 kg) capacity. 6 external hardpoints. 6,500 pounds (2,900 kg) payload total. Armament includes:

  • AGM-114 Hellfire missiles
  • GBU-39 SDB - 250 lb bombs
  • GBU-12 Paveway II, GBU-38 JDAM - 500 lb bombs
  • GBU-16 Paveway II, GBU-32 JDAM - 1000 lb bombs
  • GBU-31 JDAM - 2000 lb bombs
  • HELLADS 150 kW directed energy weapon.



Ground Control Station.

Now that's one hell of a lethal weapon platform!!
 

Prashant12

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Washington. India has formally asked the United States for Predator C Unmanned Combat Aerial Vehicles (UCAVs).

Reliable sources told India Strategic that the Predator C requirement has been mentioned at a very high level during the current visit of the Indian Prime Minister. Now that India is getting into the Missile Technology Control Regime (MTCR), President Barack Obama will ask the State and Defense Departments to consider the Indian request.

Predator C is made by General Atomics Aeronautical System Inc. (GA-ASI), which has already offered an unarmed version, Predator XP, to the Indian Air Force (IAF) and Navy for reconnaissance purposes.

The number of drones required by India is not known but the UCAV, also known as Avenger, will be operated by the Indian Air Force which in any case is also short of manned combat jets. In the troubled terror-infested environment around India, a combination of manned and unmanned precision strike aircraft and systems are an immediate necessity.

IAF had in fact asked the Indian Ministry of Defence for strike drones – or UCAVs – at least six or seven years ago.

Avenger is a further development of MQ 9 Reaper, which is extensively used by the US CIA to neutralise terrorists with precision strikes and minimum possible collateral damage.

Avenger has a turboprop engine, some stealth features, a highly sophisticated Synthetic Aperture Radar (SAR) for reconnaissance and targeting, and can carry air to ground missiles like the Hellfire. It can be controlled from anywhere in the world through satellite connectivity.

Notably, although a strike drone like the Predator C has no onboard pilot, its operation requires a couple of people at the control station to monitor the target area, and then to command the machine to shoot after due verifications.

http://www.indiastrategic.in/India_Asks_US_for_Predator_C_Drones.htm
 

PaliwalWarrior

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The number of drones required by India is not known but the UCAV, also known as Avenger, will be operated by the Indian Air Force which in any case is also short of manned combat jets. In the troubled terror-infested environment around India, a combination of manned and unmanned precision strike aircraft and systems are an immediate necessity.



http://www.indiastrategic.in/India_Asks_US_for_Predator_C_Drones.htm

When the hell has Indian armed forces used helos or a/c to fight terrorists ?
 

ezsasa

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When the hell has Indian armed forces used helos or a/c to fight terrorists ?
Not necessarily tangos, drones help in keeping the flying hours levels up even if we don't have the required squadron strength. They also mitigate shortfall pilot strength if any. Most importantly reduce the load on pilot fatigue.

I believe there is no downside on acquiring combat drones. We might see combat drones being integrated into india's defensive doctrine.

I would definitely like to see more usage of UAV's in civilian applications like natural calamities , agricultural information gathering and town planning. Although satellites already do things mentioned above, I believe routing them ISRO is a bottleneck.
 

Chandragupt Maurya

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Man what's the point of wasting 3bn $ on these predator drones? It's not like we are going to use them on LAC or even killing terrorists across LoC. Looks more like a Hafta to US again.
I am not in favour of buying Predator drones we should spend that money on development of AURA UCAV or Tejas but I read somewhere that
Pakistan said that they cannot shoot predator drones because they don’t have the capability to do so
 

cereal killer

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Pakistan said that they cannot shoot predator drones because they don’t have the capability to do so
I don't think that's the case.. The Reapers and Predators are basically sitting ducks (slow and with no stealth mode) if you have an anti-aircraft system capable of reaching 30–35,000′ which is where they often operate.
 

bajiraopeshwa

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Man what's the point of wasting 3bn $ on these predator drones? It's not like we are going to use them on LAC or even killing terrorists across LoC. Looks more like a Hafta to US again.
These might be used to monitor and eliminate terrorists in J&K, maybe in Maoist hit areas like Chattisgarh.
Now lets say terrorists are training in some Kashmir orchard. BOOM.

The cost of the J&K insurgency is approx $15 billion USD per year.If the drones help us reduce this cost by $3 billion in the first year, they would have paid for themselves. Less foot soldiers needed, lower IA casualties etc
 

Knowitall

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These might be used to monitor and eliminate terrorists in J&K, maybe in Maoist hit areas like Chattisgarh.
Now lets say terrorists are training in some Kashmir orchard. BOOM.

The cost of the J&K insurgency is approx $15 billion USD per year.If the drones help us reduce this cost by $3 billion in the first year, they would have paid for themselves. Less foot soldiers needed, lower IA casualties etc
I seriously doubt if drone strikes will be allowed in kashmir.

For surveillance rustom-2 is fine.
 

cereal killer

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These might be used to monitor and eliminate terrorists in J&K, maybe in Maoist hit areas like Chattisgarh.
Now lets say terrorists are training in some Kashmir orchard. BOOM.

The cost of the J&K insurgency is approx $15 billion USD per year.If the drones help us reduce this cost by $3 billion in the first year, they would have paid for themselves. Less foot soldiers needed, lower IA casualties etc
I am sure drones are already being used for tracking purposes by IA in Kashmir. Several factors come into play using Predator drones in Valley;
Drone strikes need lot of precision and intelligence which is not possible because of the nature of the insurgency in Kashmir.
Drone strikes often causes civilian casualties which would heat up the situation and human rights activists would further get a cause to shout. In short shit storm for GOI.
Drone strikes are very less effective and the geography of Kashmir would allow the militants to adapt quickly.
 

Abhay Rajput 02

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Man what's the point of wasting 3bn $ on these predator drones? It's not like we are going to use them on LAC or even killing terrorists across LoC. Looks more like a Hafta to US again.
Thats right its hafta to usa by our babus and politicans. We pay that to russia and usa from time to time to keep them happy and people think our diplomacy is so great. Even if they have to buy from usa , then buy more chinooks , apaches or mh60r helicopters or even Boeing aircrafts for awacs/tanker. Buying so much expensive uav is a waste of money, when we dont even have the money to buy tejas . Both pakistan and chinese can shoot it down quite easily.
 

Poseidon

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Thats right its hafta to usa by our babus and politicans. We pay that to russia and usa from time to time to keep them happy and people think our diplomacy is so great. Even if they have to buy from usa , then buy more chinooks , apaches or mh60r helicopters or even Boeing aircrafts for awacs/tanker. Buying so much expensive uav is a waste of money, when we dont even have the money to buy tejas . Both pakistan and chinese can shoot it down quite easily.
Actually they are being purchased since Pakistan will be accquiring CH-4B UCAVs from China, so India cannot afford to be behind Pak in this category.
 

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