US forces had orders to target Indian Army in 1971

[Bangalorean]

Everyone was well aware of this, and it has been discussed to death before. Well, maybe not exactly the fact that US Marines had orders to attack, but the fact that the US was supportive of Pakistan in general.

But really, this is 1971 we are talking about. Most people on this forum weren't even born back then. Things are different today, and an allying with the US isn't such a bad thing.

However, I maintain that we should not put all our eggs in one basket, and we should have excellent relations and trade with European nations, Korea, Japan and Russia as well.

 

[bengalraider]

Well to be afir the US was looking at the world through tinted glasses in 1971 all they could see was the soviet camp and NATO and other allies, kinda the same today only the glasses are now tinted to see the US on one side and china/Islamic terror on the other; will the US at some point in the future turn back on us again the answer is yes if we or any other ally pose a threat to american foreign policy the US has shown a historical willingess to set alliances aside and turn allies into enemies Saddam being a case in point.

 

[SPIEZ]

Well to be afir the US was looking at the world through tinted glasses in 1971 all they could see was the soviet camp and NATO and other allies, kinda the same today only the glasses are now tinted to see the US on one side and china/Islamic terror on the other; will the US at some point in the future turn back on us again the answer is yes if we or any other ally pose a threat to american foreign policy the US has shown a historical willingess to set alliances aside and turn allies into enemies Saddam being a case in point.

From what you say I recon that India should always be cautious about their relationship. But how far should we bend if this relationship has to survive ?

 

[agentperry]

I take it you dont want US for UNSC seat or any of it military technologies or to be included in the high tech dual tech permitted list it has or intelligence on terror networks, its investments in India, it push to have India accepted by NSG suppliers, its alliance on south china se, its free trade agreements etc etc...why would you with a genocidal supporter like the US?

he is no wrong in saying this as USA, the promoter and supporter of democracy, liberty and freedom has dictators as its ally be it gone arab leaders or pakistani military leadership ( mush and gone generals). usa always supports the regime which supports usa interests and not values( later is down on priority list of usa, afa i can see). this should be the same for India too and this is how India is doing business in world. usa arranged nsg noc but at the same time pushed for legislation to devoid India of what the 2 and 3 of 123 agreement stands for. usa is no good businessman its a bandit. this we know and this is very firm with our understanding of usa at large. about usa supporting India for unsc, this is in tandem with the bid to make India( or atleast project) as regional power so that a new pressure zone for china can be created, just like china is making pakistan and other neighbors of India a pressure zone for India. meanwhile this will also bring lots of military sales to usa which we can see in recent time. in the past 1 decades we have seen how usa has toppled not 1 not 2 but many regimes in the world in the name of will of people, now the people of those nations who were having 24X7 electricity dont know what is electricity and the whole generation is out without education and this will breed extremism and not the hypothetical WMD and 5 time praying homo sapiens.

the first lesson in IFS is that no one is permanent friend or enemy in international arena and the footnote with it is that it is proved right since our inception after brit rule. usa is no friend but a partner and not a relationship but a contractship works between both

 

[SPIEZ]

Don't act too smart. Be in your limits before you talk ill about some one. By your views it is clear that you are pro-American and Anti-Indian. Please shut-up and don't compare DFI with other forums. It is a waste of time make a comparison between DFI and other forums.

Don't be too perplexed sesha, Jay at times has the ability to be a pain in the derrier. But most of his points are rather true and correct. The way he puts his points across is the issue.

 

[pmaitra]

I am little perplexed to be seen painted in "foul mood", what wrong have I said that US tried it's best to save a genocidal regime?

It was Nixon, who, despite being advised by the US Congress, who had earlier imposed sanctions on Pakistan, not to support Pakistan, went ahead like a moronic Cold Warrior.

Just to set the record straight.

 

[Yusuf]

It was Nixon, who, despite being advised by the US Congress, who had earlier imposed sanctions on Pakistan, not to support Pakistan, went ahead like a moronic Cold Warrior.

Just to set the record straight.

Yes it's was more of a Nixon Kissinger nexus more than anything else. Probably their man egos were hurt when a lady showed then more balls!

 

[KS]

My personal opinion is that there is not much to be seen in past incidents especially in events like 1971 where there was more personal egos at work than any other.

Yeah the Americans did that, got their noses cut when the Soviet subs caught up with their ass and then they moved away.

Nowadays they are being good partners (NOT friends) and lets welcome it. After all we have much to gain from the US and vice-versa.

 

[Virendra]

I read excerpts of some records of Nixon - Kissinger conversations where they were bitching about Indira Gandhi
Lets learn the lessons and move ahead with the times. No point in getting stuck .. its counter productive in geo politik.
If we whine about the past, it keeps us from making alliances-arrangements. Next we see the same alliances-arrangements being made in the enemy camps.
IMO we Indians blunder by applying individual relationship concepts at geo political levels among nations. Like chuddy buddies.
How hard is it to understand that these ought to be marriages of convenience and (in agreement to Karthic) keeping your eyes open while kissing is good in geo politics.

Time to engage Americans with a fresh and assertive mindset - just as the situation dictates.

Regards,
Virendra

 

[sandeepdg]

I am just glad that the truth is out in the open. Lot of delusional members here were not able to understand the fact that the positioning of the USS Enterprise had a lot more to with using force against India rather than the stupid excuse of evacuating US nationals.

But, times have changed. We shouldn't speculate on the future by the actions of the past. US and India are having increasingly converging views towards all major bilateral issues and that will only increase in the future.

 

[Illusive]

Well what US did was not surprising, but what Indira did!.........more respect for her.

 

[Tshering22]

This simply didn't happen as it would have heated into a Hot war with USSR intervening. the Indo-Soviet Peace and Friendship Treaty that Indira signed at that time entitled the Soviets to interfere if China or US meddled on Pakistan's behalf. It would have become WW3 if US forces had targeted our ships or coastline just because of the changing trends of politics in Asia.

 

[sesha_maruthi27]

Don't be too perplexed sesha, Jay at times has the ability to be a pain in the derrier. But most of his points are rather true and correct. The way he puts his points across is the issue.

Spiez but no one can say he is the only person who is so brilliant in the DFI and others are fools. No one is fooling around here. He gets personal every time. That is wrong, we are just debating and we should not get personal and say that others have bad knowledge. I just said that America may do the same to INDIA which it did to pakistan and here this guy starts to say that I am making comments like a moron who is posting in ********forum. He has no right what so ever to make a statement about me and first of all he should not make a comparison of forums. He must learn some manners. Please don't mis-understand me Spiez.

 

[SPIEZ]

Spiez but no one can say he is the only person who is so brilliant in the DFI and others are fools. No one is fooling around here. He gets personal every time. That is wrong, we are just debating and we should not get personal and say that others have bad knowledge. I just said that America may do the same to INDIA which it did to pakistan and here this guy starts to say that I am making comments like a moron who is posting in ********forum. He has no right what so ever to make a statement about me and first of all he should not make a comparison of forums. He must learn some manners. Please don't mis-understand me Spiez.

Try saying Us the best or India should be like US, he ll call you intelligent. But enough of OT posts.

What does this have to offer to India or is it just another thing to hamper the growing India-US relations ?

 

[sesha_maruthi27]

Spiez if you see the history you will find one thing in common and that is were ever America has set its foot that place has turned into a failure state and many people are suffering due to this. I am just making a point that INDIA must be cautious in getting closer and closer to the White-house. I am not telling that INDIA should not accept the friendship of America, instead I say that we must be cautious. Such is the situation of the present world. Friendship of all countries is need for INDIA as our country is a developing state. But we have to maintain a balance in relationship. We should not become completely dependent or very close to the fully developed countries like U.S.A.

 

[SPIEZ]

Spiez if you see the history you will find one thing in common and that is were ever America has set its foot that place has turned into a failure state and many people are suffering due to this. I am just making a point that INDIA must be cautious in getting closer and closer to the White-house. I am not telling that INDIA should not accept the friendship of America, instead I say that we must be cautious. Such is the situation of the present world. Friendship of all countries is need for INDIA as our country is a developing state. But we have to maintain a balance in relationship. We should not become completely dependent or very close to the fully developed countries like U.S.A.

American foriegn policy and stance is under going a massive change. Especially after the fall of Soviet Union, China is not another Soviet Union nor is the most deadliest enemy of USA.

Japan, South Korea are some of the countries that have benefited from US!

And regarding friendship with USA, everyone is asking the same question " how far will it go? "

 

[The Messiah]

Of course we should move on and try to benefit from usa but at the same time we shouldn't forget history and be ignorant about it, because then we cant learn anything from it.

We should maintain a cordial relationship with usa where our foreign policy is our own and not bend over like some others suggest here because afterall it is in usa's interest that India always remains below them.

 

[Galaxy]

I sincerely wish we had a powerful PM like Indira Gandhi and Army chief like Manekshaw today. Although both Pakistan and Bangladesh are enemies of India still, we gave unforgettable pain to Pakistan so much that today also they feel humiliating and give curse to a dead person.


​

 

[Galaxy]

American public opinion was always against Pakistan but it was their leaders Kissinger, Nixon who took those decision. Today, U.S. administration do regret their decision. Today Obama, democratic are mild positive towards India. We need to have good relation with both U.S. and of course our time-tested best friend Russia.

 

[Tshering22]

American foriegn policy and stance is under going a massive change. Especially after the fall of Soviet Union, China is not another Soviet Union nor is the most deadliest enemy of USA.

Take one thing straight: USA will NEVER change its foreign policy. It has, it is and it will always remain only one thing; and that is to use and throw any nation that is of interest to its nation. Others do it as well but no so ruthlessly as USA does. Its foreign policy is only changing tactics. Objective hasn't changed one bit.

Japan, South Korea are some of the countries that have benefited from US!

Benefit huh? Japanese were industrialized long before US became their best friend through good trade with US. Their industrialization was on the basis of European economy of that time. Japan's imperialist ambitions took roots only after seeing UK, France and other European powers scourging the whole world for resources. Japan modernized its military as long ago as the mid-19th century. The Samurai were opposed to it due to which they had the Satsuma Rebellion: the first civil war of modern times of Japan in which the Samurai were defeated and relented to modernization European-style.

In short, Japanese were always development oriented long before they joined US gang in COLD WAR. It is Japanese mentality to be the most advanced; US did jack except drop a couple of nukes on their heads. Don't link Japanese progress as a result to US grace.So your excuse of Japan is not worthy enough.

Here's something that modern Korea and Japan have in common today:

- Puppet states
- No independent foreign policy
- Cannot use war as an option without US nod
- Cannot develop indigenous technologies without US nod.
- Cannot make any shift in geopolitical scenario without notifying
- Cannot have the freedom to develop strategic level weapons without notifying or asking US to participate.


The reasons why they both are developed:

- No threat in their region. (Imperial Japan took on the world militarily and was still far more developed than USA of today 2 centuries ago)
- Uniform societies.
- Innate sense of culturally being organized since beginning.
- Strong in their ancient cultural concepts.
- Strong in innovation that is encouraged in their countries unlike our nation where it is encouraged only on paper.

Germany is the European example of Japan regarding the same. They are capable of making everything in-house whatever the US can make (in fact, better and more flawless than US-made stuff), but they still are bound by "friendship" that was imposed on them after WW2 whereby USA/UK/France threatened to nuke Germans if they ever developed weapon platforms of strategic significance. That "friendly advice" still stands to this day; something that the modern NATO alliance doesn't show its dark side to the world.

You want good examples of US alliance? Here:

- Shah's Iran
- Iraq
- Pakistan
- Libya
- Batista's Cuba
- Venezuela


These are more contemporary examples of what happens when one relies too much on US. I am not against their friendship but that should not go beyond that; should not become an alliance. Especially not now with this current colonial-residue of a so-called government that runs our country.

And regarding friendship with USA, everyone is asking the same question " how far will it go? "

No nations are friends. People can be friends but nations can't. Especially not US. Not the way it has constant tiffs with Europeans, holding them at commercial & economic gunpoint for the last 6 decades.