US deal said to let India expand nuclear arms

[Yusuf]

Thermo Nuclear test data is controversial one and we cant arrive to a conclusion whether it is success or failure.

You are right, the jury is still out on that, but my reply was in the context of having russian data on nukes.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

I say we need another test to shake the things up. Then when loosers start shouting, agree to sign NPT as Weapon state. Its now or don't know when? US/Russia can not loose the Nuclear market in here to pressure with anything.

If we wanted to shake things up we can ask if it is ok for China to help pak in their nuclear program ,can we help burma in their program?? This threat is enough to shake things up and be a positive for the following reasons:

It would keep Burma from becoming another chinese client state
It would keep Bangladesh in line
It would question what the difference is between china helping pak?? Afterall Burma is an NPT signatory so it should be even better??
It would prevent China from helping two of our neighbors in their nuclear programs.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

^^sooner or later india has to test with chines-pak-north korea triangle proliferation going in full swing india has to test and validate its fusion weapon.

Maybe doing a joint test thru Israel maybe the answer?? similar to China testing thru pak.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

Thermo Nuclear test data is controversial one and we cant arrive to a conclusion whether it is success or failure.

3-5 different types of weapons were tested for 1 to fail means we are still 80% successful. The one that failed was a hydrogen bomb test. It has taken many tests by other countries to perfect a hydrogen bomb and it took some decades with help from others.

 

[nrj]

Nrj,
In the current scenario, everyone knows we cannot test even if we want to. It would be plain stupid to do so. there is a thin line in showing balls and showing your stupid. India is not stupid. A test now is suicidal. With the new order unraveling we never know india may well be accepted as a nuke state under NPT or may be NPT itself will fall apart in the near future. India is not going to lose anything at the moment by not testing but it sure will lose a lot if it does. The time to test will come soon, when we are in NPT as nuke state and then we will sign the CTBT too.

I agree partly & as I already said we might loose yrs of diplomacy all over the place. I won't say test is suicidal but its risky. As for stupidity, everybody knows Indian political leadership has been laziest but never stupid & nor the the current GOI is. New order is raveling & thats my concern, we shouldn't be left behind anything in the New Order (NW) stake calling. Stakes for regional/global importance be it af-pak efforts or steady UN peacekeeping efforts. We are not loosing anything but we might/are letting go the opportunities to have International say. Of course this argument valid if India look forward actually to be one of the Big players. If just maintaining limited regional influence is on the cards then current policies & corresponding pace is just fine.

@CTBT: We should never sign CTBT or any future equivalent. Testing rights are part of sovereignty declarations.

 

[nrj]

If we wanted to shake things up we can ask if it is ok for China to help pak in their nuclear program ,can we help burma in their program??

This should bring positive results if we ask hard questions about china-pak nuke link on Global stage. But helping Burma might call proliferation shouts (to some extent even after being NPT). Instead we can frame the security concerns of pak having steady nuke tech from china & call for another test (real/simulated). And actually Pak-china nuke link is posing so many security threats to India already. Who can question our defensive measures? Either investigate pak or we need another test to solidify our defense.

This threat is enough to shake things up and be a positive for the following reasons:

It would keep Burma from becoming another chinese client state
It would keep Bangladesh in line
It would question what the difference is between china helping pak?? Afterall Burma is an NPT signatory so it should be even better??
It would prevent China from helping two of our neighbors in their nuclear programs.

This should be part of current policy of keeping China away from small nations & move ahead with total regional influence.

Maybe doing a joint test thru Israel maybe the answer?? similar to China testing thru pak.

That could be good move. But, I seriously doubt that happening. GOI will not be able to gather Internal support for join Israel test. Nor will Indians like that.

 

[neo29]

There have been recent reports saying that pakistan has more nuclear weapons ( 80-90 ) compared to india (60-70 ). i dont think this possible. india should be having much more nuclear weapons that said since their programs are secretive.

 

[Yusuf]

You have got to be kidding me LF. Proliferate Nukes to Burma? That is really an absurd thought and very much short sighted. We don't want anymore rogue regimes having nukes. I don't know why burma is pursuing nukes in the first place, but certainly we cannot be a party to it. And what do you mean keep bangladesh in check? Since when did they do anything to us that we need to use a third country to keep it in check apart from being an irritant?

No more nukes please with anyone. We have enough headaches with pakistan and NK and with iran close to it. This proliferation is just too short sighted.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

You have got to be kidding me LF. Proliferate Nukes to Burma? That is really an absurd thought and very much short sighted. We don't want anymore rogue regimes having nukes. I don't know why burma is pursuing nukes in the first place, but certainly we cannot be a party to it. And what do you mean keep bangladesh in check? Since when did they do anything to us that we need to use a third country to keep it in check apart from being an irritant?

No more nukes please with anyone. We have enough headaches with pakistan and NK and with iran close to it. This proliferation is just too short sighted.

Yusuf it dosen't necessarily have to be proliferating nukes in the traditional sense like China did with Pak. We don't have to build reactors, supply fuel or give missiles, it can be something as simple as providing consultation or helping with centrifuges etc... The reason I have mentioned Burma is not for the sake of proliferation but it is for our own security. So far India is behind the eight ball in many things. We have not been able to stop Pak-China nuclear proliferation, pak got no punishement from their nuclear proliferation thru AQ Khan. Pak-China are going to have their own nuclear deal, we became a pseudo -NPT member thru the Bush nuclear deal. This is in the Pakistani context now let me discuss the Burmese context. If we were to help Burma in their program we would know how their program is designed. Burma will be a nuclear state so far USA has not been able to stop anyone from going nuclear and it seems USA no longer has the influence to do so. Burma is a NPT signatory unlike Pakistan. We have NSG clearance to do nuclear trade with NPT signatories. This will be a pressure point and the only one I can think of for China. Being a good boy has only put us in a precaruious position and endangered our national security. Not let's look at what happens if we don't help Burma. China will help them in their program regardless of what anybody says, they will lean more towards China. China will have another client state. China will help two of our direct neighbors in their nuclear program and Burma will be another future threat. China has already started their policy of containing us thru the string of pearl policy next they will contain us thru 2 nuclear armed neighbors.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

This should bring positive results if we ask hard questions about china-pak nuke link on Global stage. But helping Burma might call proliferation shouts (to some extent even after being NPT). Instead we can frame the security concerns of pak having steady nuke tech from china & call for another test (real/simulated). And actually Pak-china nuke link is posing so many security threats to India already. Who can question our defensive measures? Either investigate pak or we need another test to solidify our defense.

we will have 2 nuclear neighbors possibly in the next 5 years and China helping both of their programs, we won't have one neighbor to be defensive about but 2, one in the East and one in the West.

 

[Iamanidiot]

we will have 2 nuclear neighbors possibly in the next 5 years and China helping both of their programs, we won't have one neighbor to be defensive about but 2, one in the East and one in the West.

china isn't stupid after having headaches with two basket cases NoKo and Pakistan they do not want to entertain another basketcase by the way myanmar is too much of a swing state to be relied upon

 

[LETHALFORCE]

china isn't stupid after having headaches with two basket cases NoKo and Pakistan they do not want to entertain another basketcase by the way myanmar is too much of a swing state to be relied upon

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/wor...ting_help_from_north_korea_army_defector.html

http://www.southasiaanalysis.org/\papers5\paper401.html

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/06/04/burma-secretly-trying-to-_n_600499.html

http://www.worldsecuritynetwork.com/showArticle3.cfm?article_id=18112&topicID=54

China is assisting Burma thru North Korea just like they did with Pak;same exact pattern

 

[Yusuf]

If china is already assisting burma and if its at an advanced stage of cooperation, what use will india be to it. China is already way to friendly with burma for india to do anything about. Just that burma maintains good relations with india too. You can in no way give them nuke assistance. Its just insane and as much as a short sighted policy as the US which winked at china pak proliferation to suit its interest. even if burma does acquire nukes, the country as a whole is not dangerous to india. acquiring nukes is one thing, what about delivery? And who is the intended target? Bangladesh? No way. Its just an absurd idea with no long term potential strategic gains.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

Only reason I have proposed to help Burma is because if we don't help we may have 2 neighbors who have nukes and both can be possible enemies,one already clearly is; it is better to have one friendly neighbor with nukes and one unfriendly neighbor. Bangladesh is planning a nuclear program so Burma is going to react regardless. If Chinese are helping in an advanced area help them in an other area but the idea is to keep them in our fold.

 

[nrj]

we will have 2 nuclear neighbors possibly in the next 5 years and China helping both of their programs, we won't have one neighbor to be defensive about but 2, one in the East and one in the West.

China is playing its game very cleverly. Its letting world fall in chaos. And when chaos reaches threshold, conflicts for control occur. China is waiting for the perfect stage. China is preparing multiple conflict situations to take advantage, simultaneously/one-by-one. Scenes like Indo-pak, Talib-pak proliferation to disgust US, Taiwan ...

 

[Yusuf]

Bangladesh acquiring nuke weapons? They may go for power plants but not weapons. Again what motive? To attack india? For what?

China can't make allies out of countries like burma and give them nukes and hope to play them at an international stage, they are just too minor a country in the world scheme.

 

[SATISH]

The best way is to sell Bangladesh a nuclear powerplant with 3000MW capability and monitor it closely. The FBR will be like the boon to the region as all that Bangladesh needs is power and economic assistance to make sure that they can provide enough jobs to the countrymen. This will lead to a stable country in our armpits and will also stop the influx of illegal Bangladeshi immigrants into India.

The same can be tried out in Sri Lanka as well. We need to engage them economically so as to serve our interests in the IOR.