US Assessment - Pakistan government unaware of Bin Laden's Location

[Agnostic Muslim]

Re: US Assessment - Pakistan government unaware of Bin Laden's Locatio

What Part of Pakistan does "Pakistani" represents here? Civilian govt. or the Establishment?

Until, and if, a distinction is made between the Civilian government and the Military/intelligence Establishment, the statement exonerates both Civilian and Military/intelligence Establishments from official complicity in hiding OBL.

 

[W.G.Ewald]

Re: US Assessment - Pakistan government unaware of Bin Laden's Locatio

The commander of US Special Operations Command has said that a post-raid assessment concluded there is no evidence that the Pakistani government knew the whereabouts of al Qaeda chief Osama bin Laden...

1. Define Pakistani government.

2. I believe this statement has political underpinnings. The same kind of denial has emerged in reference to the deaths of the US ambassador in Behghazi, Libya.

3. I am not so inclined to be proud of my past association with USASOC.

 

[Agnostic Muslim]

Re: US Assessment - Pakistan government unaware of Bin Laden's Locatio

Then why jail this Doctor??

BBC News - Pakistan jails doctor who helped CIA find Bin Laden

Pakistan jails doctor who helped CIA find Bin Laden

He secretly and knowingly collaborated with a foreign intelligence agency in running an espionage operation inside Pakistan - that espionage operation could have been for any purpose, regardless of what the Doctor was told or believed he was doing, and therefore could have potentially compromised Pakistani National security. No country can allow such actions to go unpunished even if the end result of the collaboration was a net positive.

 

[blank_quest]

Re: US Assessment - Pakistan government unaware of Bin Laden's Locatio

Until, and if, a distinction is made between the Civilian government and the Military/intelligence Establishment, the statement exonerates both Civilian and Military/intelligence Establishments from official complicity in hiding OBL.

I can apply same logic and It will mean that still this "Pakistani" is misleading in many ways. It means "Unsubstantiated" statement that has "very large grey areas" for "Arguments and counter-arguments". Read some diplomatic statements.This world is not White Or Black. its has many shades of grey!

 

[Agnostic Muslim]

Re: US Assessment - Pakistan government unaware of Bin Laden's Locatio

1. Define Pakistani government.

2. I believe this statement has political underpinnings. The same kind of denial has emerged in reference to the deaths of the US ambassador in Behghazi, Libya.

3. I am not so inclined to be proud of my past association with USASOC.

Please see my previous posts in this thread - the reference to 'Pakistani Government' appears to be a paraphrasing of McRaven's comments by the author/editor. McRaven's direct quote only states 'Pakistanis' and not 'Pakistani government'.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

Re: US Assessment - Pakistan government unaware of Bin Laden's Locatio

A Doctor can find Bin laden and the Pakistani government after 8 years and receiving logistical
support and millions cannot is a little hard to believe.

 

[Agnostic Muslim]

Re: US Assessment - Pakistan government unaware of Bin Laden's Locatio

I can apply same logic and It will mean that still this "Pakistani" is misleading in many ways. It means "Unsubstantiated" statement that has "very large grey areas" for "Arguments and counter-arguments". Read some diplomatic statements.This world is not White Or Black. its has many shades of grey!

When used by the military, references to nationalities (such as 'the Pakistanis') typically is a reference to the armed forces of another nation.

 

[Agnostic Muslim]

Re: US Assessment - Pakistan government unaware of Bin Laden's Locatio

A Doctor can find Bin laden and the Pakistani government after 8 years and receiving logistical
support and millions cannot is a little hard to believe.

The Doctor did not find OBL, the CIA chose the compound for him to target for DNA collection based on years of intelligence gathering and input from around the world, including some critical intelligence from Pakistan.

 

[blank_quest]

Re: US Assessment - Pakistan government unaware of Bin Laden's Locatio

The Doctor did not find OBL, the CIA chose the compound for him to target for DNA collection based on years of intelligence gathering and input from around the world, including some critical intelligence from Pakistan.

So. You say "Pakistani" didn't know of OBL but gave "critical inputs" in intelligence! Wow. This means that "Pakistani" that didn't know OBL is different from Intelligence Agency that provided "Critical Intelligence" to US, What should I now conclude? They -the ISI- didn't know the illness -the OBL- and still provided the medicine -Critical Intelligence- for cure -the raid?

 

[sayareakd]

Re: US Assessment - Pakistan government unaware of Bin Laden's Locatio

1. Define Pakistani government.

Army Chief and ISI deciding what to do. Sometimes when Army Chief is busy, ISI do it individuality. They have puppet called GOP with strings in the hand of Army and ISI.

 

[sayareakd]

Re: US Assessment - Pakistan government unaware of Bin Laden's Locatio

He secretly and knowingly collaborated with a foreign intelligence agency in running an espionage operation inside Pakistan - that espionage operation could have been for any purpose, regardless of what the Doctor was told or believed he was doing, and therefore could have potentially compromised Pakistani National security. No country can allow such actions to go unpunished even if the end result of the collaboration was a net positive.

wrong he killed the goose who laid the golden egg, that is why he was arrested.

now all the financial and military aid is going to dry up soon.

 

[maomao]

Re: US Assessment - Pakistan government unaware of Bin Laden's Locatio

Where does the statement mention "weak Pakistani government and/or Pakistani Government and/or military facility, complicity of Pakistani Army and/or complicity of ISI'?

Perhaps you have some really special reading glasses that distort the text you are reading to fit your political biases?

Yes my special reading glasses are called analytical deductions, which not you, but majority pakis don't wear, and on top of that they prefer wearing glasses called delusion of Grandeur!

Jokes apart, what US is saying is that the Zardari's government did not know about OBL the way Nawaz Sharif did not know about paki army in Kargil and he was kept in darkness; however, some components of ISI and paki army were the ones who were protecting OBL.

For once leave this statesmen aside, kindly let me know how was an International Islamic Hero like OBL living under the shadow of pakistan army without they knowing about OBL wearabouts? It's all a farce, even pakistanis and US know the truth, and US is clearly pointing at the same!

 

[Agnostic Muslim]

Re: US Assessment - Pakistan government unaware of Bin Laden's Locatio

So. You say "Pakistani" didn't know of OBL but gave "critical inputs" in intelligence! Wow. This means that "Pakistani" that didn't know OBL is different from Intelligence Agency that provided "Critical Intelligence" to US, What should I now conclude? They -the ISI- didn't know the illness -the OBL- and still provided the medicine -Critical Intelligence- for cure -the raid?

Critical intelligence information was indeed provided by Pakistan, however, it was the CIA that had the technological and financial resources to develop that intelligence and join the different pieces together and identify the compound.

 

[Yusuf]

Re: US Assessment - Pakistan government unaware of Bin Laden's Locatio

Why am I not surprised by this latest flip flop? Sounds like Obama in his first year of presidency.

 

[Agnostic Muslim]

Re: US Assessment - Pakistan government unaware of Bin Laden's Locatio

wrong he killed the goose who laid the golden egg, that is why he was arrested.

That is a fascinating conspiracy theory to cling to, but it is not supported by any evidence, as is the case with most conspiracy theories.

 

[Agnostic Muslim]

Re: US Assessment - Pakistan government unaware of Bin Laden's Locatio

Why am I not surprised by this latest flip flop? Sounds like Obama in his first year of presidency.

If you read the various official statements out of the US carefully, it really is not a 'flip flop'. Official US statements on the question of Pakistani complicity have almost always been accompanied with the caveat that 'there is no evidence showing official Pakistani complicity, but someone somewhere in Pakistan must have known about OBL's location'.

 

[Yusuf]

Re: US Assessment - Pakistan government unaware of Bin Laden's Locatio

If you read the various official statements out of the US carefully, it really is not a 'flip flop'. Official US statements on the question of Pakistani complicity have almost always been accompanied with the caveat that 'there is no evidence showing official Pakistani complicity, but someone somewhere in Pakistan must have known about OBL's location'.

Technically called plausible deniability. We can delude ourselves otherwise into thinking no one knew.

Why didn't the US inform Pak about the raid? They have clearly stated they didn't trust you coz you'd tip off. How would you tip off? Only when you know where he is.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

Re: US Assessment - Pakistan government unaware of Bin Laden's Locatio

Wife: Bin Laden Hid in Pakistan for Decade - ABC News

Wife: Bin Laden Hid in Pakistan, Not Caves, for Decade

Osama bin Laden's youngest wife has revealed that the al Qaeda leader spent a vast majority of his time after the 9/11 attacks not hiding in caves but living in Pakistani cities, where he moved several times and fathered a handful of children.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

Re: US Assessment - Pakistan government unaware of Bin Laden's Locatio

Bin Laden would have escaped if Pakistan permission sought: Obama - Yahoo! News

The Pakistani ambassador to the United States at the time of the raid, Husain Haqqani, told a forum in Washington in August that he believed someone somewhere in Pakistan must have known -- a similar sentiment echoed by Panetta.

"I don't have any hard evidence, so I can't say it for a fact. There's nothing that proves the case. But as I said, my personal view is that somebody somewhere probably had that knowledge," Panetta told CBS' "60 Minutes" program in January.

 

[Agnostic Muslim]

Re: US Assessment - Pakistan government unaware of Bin Laden's Locatio

Technically called plausible deniability. We can delude ourselves otherwise into thinking no one knew.

We are not deluding ourselves when the Pakistani investigation, US investigation and almost every single official statement out of Pakistan and the US support the argument that there was no Pakistani institutional complicity in hiding OBL. We are only 'deluding ourselves' if we continue to cling to claims of Pakistani complicity despite the complete lack of evidence supporting said claims.

Why didn't the US inform Pak about the raid? They have clearly stated they didn't trust you coz you'd tip off. How would you tip off? Only when you know where he is.

Theoretically the side being informed about an operation could tip off the target of the operation after receiving the information about the target - they would not necessarily know the location or identity of the target until they obtained that information from the side conducting the military operation.