United States To Lease Or Sell A Nuclear Submarine To Australia

apple

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Appreciate your forthrightness & thanks for bringing the point to our notice. So you can see now that there is no dearth of China-lickers in Australia right ?
Why would you think I agree with you about anything??? Oh, I see you are trying to be clever. Unfortunately, this thread demonstrates you not quite as clever as you'd like to think you are.

Any new lies you'd like to make up about Australia? Or would you like to back up your claims that the Australian government doesn't keep its word? That can't be too hard for you. Politicians lie all the time, you shouldn't have to dig too hard to find an instance of a member of the Australian Government lying.
 

TrueSpirit

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Why would you think I agree with you about anything??? Oh, I see you are trying to be clever. Unfortunately, this thread demonstrates you not quite as clever as you'd like to think you are.

Any new lies you'd like to make up about Australia? Or would you like to back up your claims that the Australian government doesn't keep its word? That can't be too hard for you. Politicians lie all the time, you shouldn't have to dig too hard to find an instance of a member of the Australian Government lying.
No one is being clever, @apple mate.

I thought that by now you should have discovered the recent instance (among the many instances of Aussie cowering before PRC) when Australia backed out of a confirmed quadrilateral military exercise with its primary allies (with deep strategic ties) at the last moment.

It was done so that Chinese sensitivities do no get offended. With this Aussie Govt.'s attitude in the hindsight, do you think any sane nation would bet on Aussie when it comes to taking a determined/overt stance against Chinese unilateral & ubiquitous assertiveness, bordering on paranoid hegemony.

Maybe, we are generalizing or stereotyping a bit too much. But, the fact remains that irrespective of who is in power, the Aussie political & entrepreneur class is, more or less, united in kowtowing to PRC on most occasions. Cannot say the same about everyday Aussie citizenry, though.
 
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apple

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Maybe, we are generalizing or stereotyping a bit too much. But, the fact remains that irrespective of who is in power, the Aussie political & entrepreneur class is, more or less, united in kowtowing to PRC on most occasions. Cannot say the same about everyday Aussie citizenry, though.
So you are backing away from your "Australians are sissies" comments then.

As to OP MALABAR and Australia "not keeping its word".

India Australia Defence Relations: No More Quadrilaterals - China In South Asia - Security Issues South Asia - Security-Risks.com Caring for your Safety, Life & Security

Australian Foreign Minister Senator Bob Carr however rejected the possibility of reactivating the quadrilateral in a media interaction on 21 January 2012 after the eighth round of Framework Dialogue between India and Australia. Responding to a question by an Australian journalist during the Conference, Carr called the proposal hypothetical, he said, "I met my counterpart the Japanese Foreign Minister, Minister Kishida, in Sydney the weekend before last, and he did not raise this idea. When it comes to the trilateral involving Japan, India and Australia, it remains hypothetical. We would welcome separate discussions with Japan. But there is no formal proposal for a trilateral on issues we discussed today. So, that remains a hypothetical possibility. The quadrilateral it is probably fair to say is even more ambitious than that. Again, it is clearly hypothetical".
____________________________________

How do you interpret that as "confirmed" and the Australia government as "not keeping its word" ? Furthermore...

_______________________
The response by the Indian External Affairs Minister Mr Salman Khurshid was no different. Khurshid stated, "I would have given you the same answer. I think that Australia and India are on the same page.

Seems even your government doesn't agree with your extremist position.

Stop lying about Australia.
 

TrueSpirit

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So you are backing away from your "Australians are sissies" comments then.

As to OP MALABAR and Australia "not keeping its word".

India Australia Defence Relations: No More Quadrilaterals - China In South Asia - Security Issues South Asia - Security-Risks.com Caring for your Safety, Life & Security

Australian Foreign Minister Senator Bob Carr however rejected the possibility of reactivating the quadrilateral in a media interaction on 21 January 2012 after the eighth round of Framework Dialogue between India and Australia. Responding to a question by an Australian journalist during the Conference, Carr called the proposal hypothetical, he said, "I met my counterpart the Japanese Foreign Minister, Minister Kishida, in Sydney the weekend before last, and he did not raise this idea. When it comes to the trilateral involving Japan, India and Australia, it remains hypothetical. We would welcome separate discussions with Japan. But there is no formal proposal for a trilateral on issues we discussed today. So, that remains a hypothetical possibility. The quadrilateral it is probably fair to say is even more ambitious than that. Again, it is clearly hypothetical".
____________________________________

How do you interpret that as "confirmed" and the Australia government as "not keeping its word" ? Furthermore...

_______________________
The response by the Indian External Affairs Minister Mr Salman Khurshid was no different. Khurshid stated, "I would have given you the same answer. I think that Australia and India are on the same page.

Seems even your government doesn't agree with your extremist position.

Stop lying about Australia.
No, all along I have maintained that: Aussies are sissies when it comes to PRC. Show me one instance when I chose to understate the relevant context, i.e. Chinese context.

Evidence shared in this thread so far, corroborate the same.

Now, how can you ignore that it is an Aussie minister, who "rejected the possibility of reactivating the quadrilateral" ?

Khurshid. Thanks for bringing up. Let me update you a little bit about him. He is a traitor who embezzles funds meant for physically-challenged (handicapped) folks.

Read on:

Disabled people protest against Salman Khurshid - Times Of India
| Video | NGO chaired by Salman Khurshid cheats handicapped? | India Videos | - India Today
Kejriwal releases more evidence against Khurshid, says Congress involved in the scam : Operation Dhritrashtra, News - India Today
Now, Kejriwal accuses Khurshid of scam - Times Of India
http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/...-khurshids-trust-accused-rs-71-lakh-scam.html
Operation Dhritarashtra Money Aid for Disabled Looted by Salman khurshid Zakir Hussain Memorial Trust Scam
Salman Khurshid and his wife SHOULD be thrown into jail: Operation Dhritrashtra

Please note, these are some of the most popular & credible publications (that I have cited from) in world's largest democracy (that happens to publish highest number of newspapers & hosts largest number of newspaper-readers in the world).

More about his pusillanimity when it comes to China:

Incursion acne, can be cured with ointment, says Khurshid - Indian Express
Salman Khurshid to visit China on May 9 despite standoff - Times Of India
The Acne Spreads | Pranay Sharma
http://www.telegraphindia.com/1110717/jsp/7days/story_14249334.jsp
http://acnefreeblog.com/salman-khurshid-to-visit-china-on-may-9-despite-standoff/
http://frontierindia.net/salman-khurshids-local-chinese-acne-grows-larger

He was at the receiving end of lots of brickbats, widespread swearing campaigns & aggressive sloganeering, both on the streets as well as online.

Quoting such a lily-levered chicken who also happens to be an outright delusional at the same time, weakens your case.

Indian Govt, too (the present one, UPA-II) has its share of weaklings who wet their pants when it comes to PRC. But, you must understand that the popular mood in the nation is against the govt. which is lumbering on artificial life-support from external allies. This govt. is going to go. Hope you understand the difference.

Deference towards a autocratic Commie dictatorship like China is not taken kindly in our country. This is when China is our largest trading partner with mutual trade standing around $70 billion USD.

While kowtowing before PRC is not considered unusual among Aussie politicians (& entrepreneurs class, as well).

And, therein, lies all the difference.


Instead of passing adjectives towards me (which imply zilch on Internet, plus I can always out-perform you there), please come out of your shell (& face uncomfortable truths) to be able to understand the emerging calculus of security paradigm in Indian Ocean & South China Sea region. Only then we can have some meaningful discussion.
 
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apple

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No, all along I have maintained that: Aussies are sissies when it comes to PRC. Show me one instance when I chose to understate the relevant context, i.e. Chinese context.

Maybe, we are generalizing or stereotyping a bit too much. But, the fact remains that irrespective of who is in power, the Aussie political & entrepreneur class is, more or less, united in kowtowing to PRC on most occasions. Cannot say the same about everyday Aussie citizenry, though.

Evidence shared in this thread so far, corroborate the same.

All you've done is pasted a quote from an Australian businessman, who was doing business in China. I've quoted OP MALABAR, which you were alluding to, but not quoting, as supporting your assertions.

Now, how can you ignore that it is an Aussie minister, who "rejected the possibility of reactivating the quadrilateral" ?

How can you you claim that Australia, went back on it's word?

You, cryptically (i.e. you didn't want to mention it directly as it would show you are lying) mentioned OP MALABAR;

You know what, when one backs out from his word- his stated position, he looses respect. Especially in diplomatic circles, when the "word" happens to be between official & formal allies.
Aus. in recent years backed-off from its "word", only to develop such a reputation.
You were correct to put the word "word" in quotation marks. Australia never gave it's word it was going to do the last OP MALABAR. How you then jump to Australia is sissies in regards to Chicom's is beyond me.

As I was saying; doubling the submarine fleet, acquiring new fighters, gaining an ampihibious capability, allowing US Marines a base in Australia.

But, we don't conduct an exercise with the Indian Navy and you "know" it's because we're sissies. Did you notice who Carr specifically mentioned?

Australian Foreign Minister Senator Bob Carr however rejected the possibility of reactivating the quadrilateral in a media interaction on 21 January 2012 after the eighth round of Framework Dialogue between India and Australia. Responding to a question by an Australian journalist during the Conference, Carr called the proposal hypothetical, he said, "I met my counterpart the Japanese Foreign Minister, Minister Kishida, in Sydney the weekend before last, and he did not raise this idea. When it comes to the trilateral involving Japan, India and Australia, it remains hypothetical. We would welcome separate discussions with Japan. But there is no formal proposal for a trilateral on issues we discussed today. So, that remains a hypothetical possibility. The quadrilateral it is probably fair to say is even more ambitious than that. Again, it is clearly hypothetical".
Neither I, nor more particularly you (your knowledge of Australia is quite shocking) know why neither Australia, nor Japan was interested in having exercises with your navy.

RAN is too busy, would be the first choice (us "sissies" are fighting wars, and have multiple deployments, you know).

Second choice would be RAN would have been keen to exercise with someone operating outdated, Cold War Warsaw Pact equipment, i.e. the Indian Navy, as that level of technology would be very similiar to our most serious naval threat, the Chinese Navy. Particularly, operating with your Kilo class sub, could have been useful. But, now that we've done that, the exercise isn't so important. Or, perhaps RAN was dissatified witht he last exercise.

As per the Bob Carr quote, I found it interesting he mentioned Japan. To actually post something relevant on this thread, there has been some talk, in Australia, about co-operating with Japan to develop the Collins class replacement. Or, even to buy/ license build their Soryu class subs. Imagine if Japan had been interested in having exercises with you, we would want to be a part.

Personally, I hope the exercise was cancelled due to cost. RAN's new ampihibious ships are costing a lot of money, not to mention the future subs. RAN's taking too much of the defence budget, and perhaps this EX got binned, as RAN was trying to be friends with the Army and RAAF.

Anyway, I don't know and True Spirit has absolutely no idea.


Khurshid. Thanks for bringing up. Let me update you a little bit about him. He is a traitor who embezzles funds meant for physically-challenged (handicapped) folks.

Problems with your elected officials is non of our concern. We deal with who we have to. Your comments are completely irrelevant.

Deference towards a autocratic Commie dictatorship like China is not taken kindly in our country. This is when China is our largest trading partner with mutual trade standing around $70 billion USD.

While kowtowing before PRC is not considered unusual among Aussie politicians (& entrepreneurs class, as well).

And, therein, lies all the difference.

.
Indian's opinion of Australian's foreign policy vis-a-vis China is of little, to no concern, to Australia. More to the point, it's none of your business. You don't tell us what to do.

Boxer Rebellion, Korea, Malaya, (sort of) intially supporting Suharto, Vietnam, while you've... let's see... watched while Chicom take Tibet and been invaded by them. Don't talk to us about "kowtowing", or be calling us sissies and the operation of our government is none of your concern.

To be honest, I'm done with you and this thread.

The biggest fool, is a stubborn fool. Enjoy believing your lies, True Spirit.
 

TrueSpirit

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Indian's opinion of Australian's foreign policy vis-a-vis China is of little, to no concern, to Australia. More to the point, it's none of your business. You don't tell us what to do.

Boxer Rebellion, Korea, Malaya, (sort of) intially supporting Suharto, Vietnam, while you've... let's see... watched while Chicom take Tibet and been invaded by them. Don't talk to us about "kowtowing", or be calling us sissies and the operation of our government is none of your concern.

To be honest, I'm done with you and this thread.

The biggest fool, is a stubborn fool. Enjoy believing your lies, True Spirit.
Welcome back @apple. Nice to see you after a long time. Happy posting on DFI :)
 
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