United States and India signed Naval fuel agreement

[LETHALFORCE]

After so much cheering about India-US alliance for years, our India friends still fail to understand why the whole thing doesn't go as they think.

Let's make it clear: India will not joining US side to fight against Chinese unless Americans give a very big reward--dominance of Indian Ocean. So far American has show no sign of giving it.




Only fools or teenagers need those detail, such kind of alliance need lot more activities than just signing some "secretive" agreements. You need to start training together, setting up logistic centre and communication for multiple navies, and more importantly, you have to work out one commanding system for 4 navies, in East Asian area, especially for Indian navy. If you want Indian navy to join a war which may happen in near future, the preparation should have started now. But until today, we see nothing but speculation.

Mahabar exercises for last twelve years were just for fun. If you believe what you write then China has nothing to worry about. Four countries just wasting time.


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[Sakal Gharelu Ustad]

I do not see what great benefit India can derive from it.
A coalition desired by USA (Japan, Australia, USA, India) is not workable.

At most India can cooperate with USA. Its impact will not be much.

A selective "Naval" pact will not give India any great benefit. India is pretty much on an independent course, whether people understand or not. If India were to become a US protectorate, there was no need for nuclear tests, missiles and SSBNs.

India does not need to be a US protectorate. Just milk the situation as much as possible.

There is no BRCS presence in IOR, while Japan, Australia and US do have presence and big interests. Given small size of Chinese navy for now, it is more than workable coalition. But yes, no one is asking India to be a US bitch like Pak. No permanent navy bases should be given to US for the sake of coalition. China cannot become a major threat in any foreseeable future.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

I do not see what great benefit India can derive from it.
A coalition desired by USA (Japan, Australia, USA, India) is not workable.

At most India can cooperate with USA. Its impact will not be much.

A selective "Naval" pact will not give India any great benefit. India is pretty much on an independent course, whether people understand or not. If India were to become a US protectorate, there was no need for nuclear tests, missiles and SSBNs.

India has never left the coalition ( Australia and Japan did) there were time India and USA did joint exercise alone (bay of Bengal)
Both more serious but now all back together?


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[LETHALFORCE]

India does not need to be a US protectorate. Just milk the situation as much as possible.

There is no BRCS presence in IOR, while Japan, Australia and US do have presence and big interests. Given small size of Chinese navy for now, it is more than workable coalition. But yes, no one is asking India to be a US bitch like Pak. No permanent navy bases should be given to US for the sake of coalition. China cannot become a major threat in any foreseeable future.

If India controls the Indian Ocean India has control over 70 percent of global trade. This is more than a military angle there is major economic advantages


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[garg_bharat]

If India controls the Indian Ocean India has control over 70 percent of global trade. This is more than a military angle there is major economic advantages


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Do you think USA will concede to India "control of IOR".
Even otherwise it is not possible.

Control of an ocean the size of Indian ocean is not practical.

 

[garg_bharat]

India has never left the coalition ( Australia and Japan did) there were time India and USA did joint exercise alone (bay of Bengal)
Both more serious but now all back together?


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Australians don't trust Indians. Plus Australia is not a serious military power.
Japan is a closed nation. It has difficulty trusting anybody.

At most, it is limited cooperation between USA and India.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

Do you think USA will concede to India "control of IOR".
Even otherwise it is not possible.

Control of an ocean the size of Indian ocean is not practical.

I have said before nobody gives anything to anyone it will always have to be earned


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[LETHALFORCE]

Australians don't trust Indians. Plus Australia is not a serious military power.
Japan is a closed nation. It has difficulty trusting anybody.

At most, it is limited cooperation between USA and India.

Japan is serious

http://thediplomat.com/2015/10/confirmed-japan-will-permanently-join-us-india-naval-exercises/

Confirmed: Japan Will Permanently Join US-India Naval Exercises





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[garg_bharat]

Don't read too much into naval exercises.
It is a long road from an exercise to joint operations.
The story of defence cooperation with Japan is not a sweet one.

My point is that a purely naval alliance is unlikely to work great.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

Don't read too much into naval exercises.
It is a long road from an exercise to joint operations.
The story of defence cooperation with Japan is not a sweet one.

It prepares for interoperability . I don't know if any scenario will ever arise where China would make a mistake? Chinese are a lot more pragmatic than that. Also US Pakistan relations will also be a thorn in letting relations to fully bloom.

 

[SajeevJino]

It's look like sir you are american fan boy.
Atleast up till now russia has not sold its mig-29 equivalent to f-16 to pakistan.
As Americans will sell now these f-16s to pakistan.

And russia don't need your certification to be called most important partner when prime minister modi himself says this and when he told during in meeting with putin that "when people in india are asked which country is their friend they say it is russia" and if you has doubt go and see YouTube

do you have any idea about Russian Chinese military cooperation, wonder why Russia delivering Su 35 and S 400 to China

 

[garg_bharat]

It prepares for interoperability . I don't know if any scenario will ever arise where China would make a mistake? Chinese are a lot more pragmatic than that. Also US Pakistan relations will also be a thorn in letting relations to fully bloom.

Issue is not only China. Issue is that every single country in this four way "alliance" has only limited overlap of objectives.

As I said an alliance which is only in naval field and not overall is bound to sink.

India is still a continental power. While long sea coast may lull us into a false sense of naval achievement, the reality does not correspond to that.

Joint war-fighting involves a lot of things and I just do not see any of it happening anytime soon.

 

[Bahamut]

Issue is not only China. Issue is that every single country in this four way "alliance" has only limited overlap of objectives.

As I said an alliance which is only in naval field and not overall is bound to sink.

India is still a continental power. While long sea coast may lull us into a false sense of naval achievement, the reality does not correspond to that.

Joint war-fighting involves a lot of things and I just do not see any of it happening anytime soon.

Well China paid for both while Pak gets F 16 for free.For India tocontrol IOR we must have atleast 3 CBG above increase bases in A&N island.Also long range fighterbomberand a dedicated marine assualt force will be required.

 

[garg_bharat]

There are only two types of alliances which succeed: one is a meeting of equals against a third much larger power; second, a strong power giving protection to a weak power.

I see either of this not obtaining in this alliance. So this translates to only mind games and little on the ground.

The best hope as I said is cooperation, like resupply, fueling, etc. Maybe Americans can get an airbase in India in best case situation. The impact will be minimal.

 

[chex3009]

Never expect US to support India when it is needed the most.

I wouldn't trust the U.S even if it would have been my last option.

 

[sob]

Cooperative security arrangements are better than hostility. India needs security of trade, first and foremost.

Issues at sea are different from issues at land.

Piracy looks at no national flag. If not checked they can easily threaten our assets in A&N.

Where do you think the ships from India to Asean, Japan and China travel through? It is all through Malacca Strait.

 

[garg_bharat]

@sob, a naval war between China and India is far-fetched. India wont go into east and south china seas, and China knows it cannot overpower India in Bay of Bengal.

I know what USA is saying but I just don't see how it benefits India.

The best way to keep sea lanes open is to keep animosity between big powers in check.

 

[sob]

SO how do you keep the sea lanes open?

 

[sasum]

If India controls the Indian Ocean India has control over 70 percent of global trade. This is more than a military angle there is major economic advantages


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If India controls Indian Ocean, still she cannot control trade thru international waters.. no country can. Can India deny right to free passage to any merchant/ cruise ship belonging to any country or collect some kind of toll-tax? If you mean "muscle-flexing" by "controlling", well for that India first has to acquire muscles of her own; she cannot exercise authority with borrowed sinew.
As for pirate menace, coast-guards are enough to take care.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

If India controls Indian Ocean, still she cannot control trade thru international waters.. no country can. Can India deny right to free passage to any merchant/ cruise ship belonging to any country or collect some kind of toll-tax? If you mean "muscle-flexing" by "controlling", well for that India first has to acquire muscles of her own; she cannot exercise authority with borrowed sinew.
As for pirate menace, coast-guards are enough to take care.

Forget controlling trade India cannot stop Chinese submarines or building of Chinese
Ports for their string of pearls. This is aggression by an enemy navy that India has no response too. India is not anywhere close to controlling trade or preventing enemy naval operations in India's waters. It is we can't do this or that mentality that has invited
Enemies to India for millennium and gave them victories and empires. We didn't prepare then and let's not start now?


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