United Kingdom to stop sending financial aid to India from January 1, 2016

[AbRaj]

Agree with most of it, although there is a slight nuance in point #1 (WW2), the US did help Britain to sustain a fight but only when the British had been thoroughly knocked down by Germany. The US waited and watched in amusement as Britain spent all the ill-gotten wealth they had earned from their colonies over centuries in a single conflict. Once Britain got desperate, the US offered them help, even that was on terrible terms. The agreement asked the British to give up all control over all colonies and subsequently give up the preferential trade routes that they monopolized. The US also asked Britain to hand over all military R&D to the US so that they could manufacture those weapons on US soil. This knowledge was so wast, it contained PhD theses, weapons blueprints, encryption technologies and other things, the British had to hire a large cargo ship to send all these blue prints to the US in the middle of a U-boat war. It was probably the largest transfer of information from one civilization to another in the shortest time.

The humiliation didn't stop at that. After WW2 was over, Britain was itching to invade some other strategic location and sought to control it as a means to retain their geostrategic heft. They along with France and Israel invaded Suez canal. Most of the global trade and oil flowed from here so the British wanted to control this choke point as a means to blackmail the world. When the US found out, they sent military help to Egypt to defeat the British. This was the fist time someone had shown Britain their "aukad", they had probably forgotten that their global empire had collapsed and Britain was no longer a world power. They were not used to taking orders from anyone but for the first time they had to listen, like an obedient dog.

In a way, the US hurt Britain more than Germany ever could. It was the US, not Germany that rang the final death knell for the British empire.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suez_Crisis

Finally, I'd say, there is no difference between talking to a Pakistani and a British person. They are both brainwashed by their syllabus and live in a fancy world of their own. Their opinions are divorced from the facts and both have a latent romanticism for the large monarchies that each of them previously presided over. None of them have come out of their "the glorious past" mindset.

Yup, but my assessment is right too, that USA saved the Great Britain from ass whooping by Evil Nazis:biggrin2::biggrin2::biggrin2:,
Imagine the fear in hearts of Royal Britons by hearing sound of Buzz Bombs:biggrin2:


Whatever the world call the World War II, but it serves the humanity to the greatest extent by bringing these Evil Nazis..... sorry Royal Britons and some of their royal cousins (Dutch, French.....) to their knees


It may sound cruel but for us poor third world citizens WW2 is no less than a revolution and we should celebrate it (yup)

 

[Nuvneet Kundu]

According to 99% of royal Britons :biggrin2: these are add - bribe/bribe - adds and they want us to buy their White Elephant aka Europhyter Typhoon and return back the favor :biggrin2:
They think that their donations are what keeping us alive and we poor hungry Indians will die without it. So they threatening to stop it

They are a few million, we are in billions. Tigers don't lose sleep over the opinion of sheep. The whole 'look how badly India is doing' is a drama to divert the British population's attention from Britain's sinking state of affairs. All empires do this. The Egypt Pharaohs built large pyramids to keep the general population in awe of their leader who commanded demi-god status over slaves. Saudi Arabia does the same by building mega buildings and cities. They want to keep their domestic population busy in admiring shiny spectacles like retarded flies admiring a light bulb. Britain has nothing glorious domestically so they rely on cherry picking the misery of others to keep their dumb population ignorant. If you want to keep your people in the dark, just plant an artificial light source and all the insects will divert their attention there. Whenever I hear British insects talking about hungry-naked people in India, I think of them like this :

 

[Verdane]

You won’t get any disagreements for me on Daily Mail readership, a significant minority of who are utter morons – fed by less than nuanced opinion pieces disguised as news. I imagine India has its Daily Fail equivalents too with equally nationalistic, small minded idiots cheering it on.

However, as I’ve said I agree with the complaint many of them make, even if I don’t agree with the way it’s made. Foreign aid should not go to countries that don’t need it and it should not be locked into a legally binding % of the budget at a time when we are running a deficit. Again – nothing to with India, rather our own government policy. However, India does provide some rather stark examples as to why the policy is idiotic – which is perhaps where some of the misplaced vitriol comes from. As you well know, people commenting online tend to wind each other up to the point comments can become harsher than intended.

My comments regarding saving Europe are in response to someone saying France and Germany won’t "save us." Of course the US was important in winning the war (once the Germans and Japanese declared war on them of course), as was Russia (after the Germans declared war on them too), as was India and several other nations that I won’t list. Although we saved our own ass in the Battle of Britain... you are correct right that things could be different you could be ruled by the Japanese and Europe would be a fascist dictatorship, or maybe ruled by Russia, Germany would also likely have gained the atom bomb first. Who knows ...(The Man in the High Castle is a rather good TV series on Amazon). The point stands, however, that the UK has never needed saving by Europe, rather the reverse. But nobody (at least outside of the Daily Mail readership) thinks Britain won the war alone!

 

[Verdane]

I don't even know where to start with this..... OK I understand you get angry when you read things that are disparaging about India. Fair enough. But if you spend time seeking out things that appear negative or less than flattering about your country two things happen.

1. You get a twisted view about how you are perceived. Most media articles, western or otherwise tend to focus on the negative, because frankly it's more interesting that the positive. Backing up to my early comments about the Daily Mail – reading that at any point in time and you would think the world was falling in on itself and the UK was about to sink under its own problems.

2. You get an even more twisted perspective on India's importance to the UK - your comment demonstrates this immeasurably. India is an important country, but to the UK no more important than a dozen other countries and certainly less spoken about that the US, China, Russia or Europe. It’s interesting because of its own history, our shared history together, its diverse culture and potential. It’s interesting because there are 1.5 million people of Indian origin who call themselves British. It’s also interesting from a news perspective because of its contradictions and for economic and trade reasons. However, I could probably look through several papers today and be lucky to find a single Indian focused news article positive or negative (and no I haven’t tried)!

 

[Nuvneet Kundu]

I don't even know where to start with this..... OK I understand you get angry when you read things that are disparaging about India. Fair enough. But if you spend time seeking out things that appear negative or less than flattering about your country two things happen.

1. You get a twisted view about how you are perceived. Most media articles, western or otherwise tend to focus on the negative, because frankly it's more interesting that the positive. Backing up to my early comments about the Daily Mail – reading that at any point in time and you would think the world was falling in on itself and the UK was about to sink under its own problems.

2. You get an even more twisted perspective on India's importance to the UK - your comment demonstrates this immeasurably. India is an important country, but to the UK no more important than a dozen other countries and certainly less spoken about that the US, China, Russia or Europe. It’s interesting because of its own history, our shared history together, its diverse culture and potential. It’s interesting because there are 1.5 million people of Indian origin who call themselves British. It’s also interesting from a news perspective because of its contradictions and for economic and trade reasons. However, I could probably look through several papers today and be lucky to find a single Indian focused news article positive or negative (and no I haven’t tried)!

Please don't try to patronize me by implying that my opinions are coming out of a reactionary and impulsive mind. I assure you if someone wakes me in the middle of the night I'd say the exact same things in the most calm manner possible. Also, none of my comments are based on what some British commentators have said about India. The quality of discourse in India is not so shallow as to let stray comments from British citizens affect our nation's strategic calculus.

It has everything to do with what your government is doing as state policy. You keep interfering with the Kashmir issue despite India warning you about the bilateral nature of the dispute. You and I can be very good friends on a personal level but we are not going to rest until we help Argentina acquire nuclear weapons and liberate Falklands from your illegal occupation.

Again, I say that very humbly with utmost respect to your fish and chips.

You have a misconception that Indians have a twisted view, it's the other way round. You'd know that if you get the Indian version of The Telegraph and get to read distasteful gems like these mocking our union ministers :

Please continue being ignorant of the partisan activities your agencies are engaging in, one morning you will wake up to the reality of a nuclear armed Argentina.

 

[AbRaj]

You won’t get any disagreements for me on Daily Mail readership, a significant minority of who are utter morons – fed by less than nuanced opinion pieces disguised as news. I imagine India has its Daily Fail equivalents too with equally nationalistic, small minded idiots cheering it on.

However, as I’ve said I agree with the complaint many of them make, even if I don’t agree with the way it’s made. Foreign aid should not go to countries that don’t need it and it should not be locked into a legally binding % of the budget at a time when we are running a deficit. Again – nothing to with India, rather our own government policy. However, India does provide some rather stark examples as to why the policy is idiotic – which is perhaps where some of the misplaced vitriol comes from. As you well know, people commenting online tend to wind each other up to the point comments can become harsher than intended.

My comments regarding saving Europe are in response to someone saying France and Germany won’t "save us." Of course the US was important in winning the war (once the Germans and Japanese declared war on them of course), as was Russia (after the Germans declared war on them too), as was India and several other nations that I won’t list. Although we saved our own ass in the Battle of Britain... you are correct right that things could be different you could be ruled by the Japanese and Europe would be a fascist dictatorship, or maybe ruled by Russia, Germany would also likely have gained the atom bomb first. Who knows ...(The Man in the High Castle is a rather good TV series on Amazon). The point stands, however, that the UK has never needed saving by Europe, rather the reverse. But nobody (at least outside of the Daily Mail readership) thinks Britain won the war alone!

Yes, agreed
Dear @Verdane as you sir seems a nice fellow, don't take my words emotionally, it was not to insult you or for that matter any gentlemen (and apologizes if I did so)

On topic :
As you said there are morons in every society without an exception (look at Donald Trump:biggrin2 no doubt but personally I think most British have very negative view about India and Indians in comparison to say Pakistan and may I ask why (if so)?
though we never have negative opinion about UK even though we are enslaved by The Great Britain over centuries

 

[Nuvneet Kundu]

Yes, agreed
Dear @Verdane as you sir seems a nice fellow, don't take my words emotionally, it was not to insult you


As you said there are morons in every society without an exception (look at Donald Trump:biggrin2 no doubt but personally I think most British have very negative view about India and Indians in comparison to say Pakistan and may I ask why (if so)?
though we never have negative opinion about UK even though we are enslaved by The Great Britain over centuries

Yahan main Argentina ko nuclear weapons dene ki baat kar raha hoon aur tu hai ki...

Bhai tune toh mera dil tod diya

@DingDong can someone appraise our British friend of the Krantikari headlines that Reuters has come up with in relation to a 'massive uprising in India'.

@Verdane Your agencies are using fake photos and false information to foment trouble and engineer an uprising in India. This was the news today

http://www.dawn.com/news/1239781/protests-over-students-arrest-spread-to-18-indian-varsities

It claims that there is a massive anti-government student uprising in 18 universities in India. It uses a photograph of a pro-government rally to make its point. Also, in what universe do British consider a gathering of 100 people as a massive political uprising?

Have some shame before lecturing others of having a twisted perspective.

 

[AbRaj]

Yahan main Argentina ko nuclear weapons dene ki baat kar raha hoon aur tu hai ki...

Bhai tune toh mera dil tod diya

@DingDong can someone appraise our British friend of the Krantikari headlines that Reuters has come up with in relation to a 'massive uprising in India'.

@Verdane Your agencies are using fake photos and false information to foment trouble and engineer an uprising in India. This was the news today

http://www.dawn.com/news/1239781/protests-over-students-arrest-spread-to-18-indian-varsities

It claims that there is a massive anti-government student uprising in 18 universities in India. It uses a photograph of a pro-government rally to make its point. Also, in what universe do British consider a gathering of 100 people as a massive political uprising?

Have some shame before lecturing others of having a twisted perspective.

Sorry brother :biggrin2::biggrin2::biggrin2:
And headlines are indeed hilarious

 

[Verdane]

Yes, agreed
Dear @Verdane as you sir seems a nice fellow, don't take my words emotionally, it was not to insult you or for that matter any gentlemen (and apologizes if I did so)

On topic :
As you said there are morons in every society without an exception (look at Donald Trump:biggrin2 no doubt but personally I think most British have very negative view about India and Indians in comparison to say Pakistan and may I ask why (if so)?
though we never have negative opinion about UK even though we are enslaved by The Great Britain over centuries

I'd rather not look at Donald Trump if I can help it! Thanks for the apology but no offense taken.

I think my post to Nuvneet outlined my views about how the media/online discussion can skew perseptions. I honestly think that is the case so i'm sorry if he thought I was being patronising. It's like you say - people in India don't have a negative opinion of the UK, but for a UK person reading comments here (and I mean this forum in general) it would seem that the UK is loathed. Perhaps, when you read comments in some UK papers that are negative towards India the same impression is given.

I really don't think most British people do have a negative view of Indians at all. Most people probably don't have much of a view at all really (the big exception is i'm sorry to say Indian call centres - where the opinion is mostly negative sorry!). But most of the really negative stuff (racist) probably is directed at Pakistan and muslims generally because of terrorism, rapes etc... Not that i'm saying that's a good thing either! People are just people really, so sweeping generalisations towards anyone is pointless.

 

[Nuvneet Kundu]

Sorry brother :biggrin2::biggrin2::biggrin2:
And headlines are indeed hilarious

They are, but it becomes a nuisance after a while considering the fact that they are peddling highly partisan and biased views under the garb of free speech and conveniently silencing the counter-narrative. A news paper is supposed to be unbiased and neutral in its reporting or at the very least carry opinions from the opposite. Here this paper is acting as a hitman of the British crown. On top of that their minions are accusing us of having a twisted perspective.

That's not all, their other agency Reuters today circulated the news all over the world that political unrest has peaked in India and there is a massive uprising. Someone who doesn't know any better would get a feeling that some Arab Spring type action is going on in India.

I'm copy-pasting my conversation from another thread : http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/...unded-rotten-scums.75467/page-23#post-1135201

On the Gulf and Dawn outlets at least it says the source is 'Reuters'. On the Indian news outlets, it doesn't even mention that. The reports are made to look like indigenous reporters are writing it. Britain is stage managing these protests. They are trying to engineer a Hindu-Muslim communal situation and using their old allies, the communists. After all, all the journalists, historians and 'intellectuals' have had family ties with the British Raj since 1930. They are the one who have carried on the British legacy of subverting Hindu culture and whitewashing British and Mughal crimes.

The cat is out of the bag now. This is an open confrontation between the Indian government and British government. Petty motherfuckers have become very desperate after we cancelled the Eurofighter deal, sent a mission to Mars. They had come out with racist cartoons even then. And they paid their Indian assets in the media to write self-flagellating articles saying "so many poor people are dying of hunger and our government is sending satellites to Mars". The British were also trying to stall our economic projects by inviting that Green Peace activist who was stopped by our intel agencies on time.

These rats keep interfering in other's internal affairs, just wait for a few years and their own country will be taken over by muslims and the queen Elizabeth will become Begum Elizabeth very soon.

This Reuters news feed was then preferentially planted in various news agencies that are under British payroll. Notice that it's the same text being syndicated across all reputed media channels, not a single journalist cared to verify the authenticity of the claims. As long as they keep getting paid by Britain, they blindly publish whatever their Reuters masters say.

http://gulfnews.com/news/asia/india...s-government-cracks-down-on-dissent-1.1672935

http://www.dawn.com/news/1239781/protests-over-students-arrest-spread-to-18-indian-varsities

 

[Verdane]

Good luck with your Argentine crusade. It's good that you feel strongly enough to support the descendants of one bunch of colonisers to nuke the land of another bunch of colonisers, thereby laying claim to some charred penguins and a large radiation cloud that would kill…well… Argentineans .

Since you think the Falklands were stolen perhaps Argentina could be gifted the islands in exchange for Argentina handing back its stolen land too (I can let you decide if you stop at Patagonia or just include the whole of Argentina in that equation). However, you might want to start helping them with a few naval vessels that can float and aircraft that don’t predate the cold war before graduating to nukes.

It’s interesting that you select a bunch of articles written by Indians, for Indians in Indian version of newspapers yet complain about Brits. You seriously think there is someone sat in London directing people about what to write? Sort of illustrates my point really that media is largely a commercial enterprise – the term click bait comes to mind people write what they think will attract an audience and the best people to decide that are the people writing for the paper in India. I imagine the Indian versions of those newspapers simply operate along the same doctrine as their parent paper. Write what sells. PS Never heard of Dawn before.

 

[Nuvneet Kundu]

Since you think the Falklands were stolen perhaps Argentina could be gifted the islands in exchange for Argentina handing back its stolen land too (I can let you decide if you stop at Patagonia or just include the whole of Argentina in that equation). However, you might want to start helping them with a few naval vessels that can float and aircraft that don’t predate the cold war before graduating to nukes.

Thanks for the encouragement. And since you have been so encouraging, you'd be very pleased to know that when India got an NSG waiver in 2008 civil-nuclear deal with the US, the first thing we did was to head to Argentina to share our nuclear technology. I think you should leave the burden of whether their ships float or not to the lord of buoyancy. You guys went into Afghanistan with a similar concept of superiority, and we all know how well that turned out.

You seriously think there is someone sat in London directing people about what to write?

Yup. The Occam's razor is strong in this one. What is the possibility that the political narrative of a broadcasting medium worth millions of dollars is NOT dictated by Begum Elizabeth?

The ethnicity of the writer doesn't matter because ultimately he is doing his matter's bidding, he is an employee after all. An Indian writing for a British paper doesn't take away from the fact that the narrative is being dictated the owner of the company, just like an Indian CEO leading Microsoft doesn't turn Microsoft into an Indian company.

Anyway, head over to the official Indian embassy website for Argentina, you will find that our 2009 agenda mentions nuclear co-operation. Immediately followed by technical, scientific and industrial co-operation. We have given them whatever raw materials they needed. Now, if the Argentinians 'misuse' it to make a bomb, we are not responsible. But then again, since you are so cool about it, it all works out fine for all of us. I'm pleased by the acceptance and generosity you have exuded while endorsing the transfer of nuclear technology to your adversary. I hope that everyone in this world becomes as generous as you are. By the way, nuclear weapons can be delivered via space as well, so we have made sure that we have a space co-operation with Argentina, just in case their ships don't float as you apprehended.

Here's the website :

http://www.indembarg.org.ar/eoi.php?id=Relations

 

[Indx TechStyle]

@Verdane Before objecting to our trolls, go on your own British Forums who think Indians are living on their aid.

 

[Verdane]

Perhaps you are misunderstanding the term "peaceful" in the agreement under nuclear energy? Or is this more logic tangents at work? Along with all those British masterminds you have worked out are pulling strings across the globe to achieve no meaning benefit to Britain other than to irritate you?

You probably also already know since you are “supplying materials” that nuclear power grade uranium is not weapons grade and that China will be building the next two nuclear power stations in Argentina - not India. But it’s nice of you to supply the materials.

The Lord of Buoyancy is really a lot more forgiving if the ships he oversees are maintained and this only tends to happen when the navy to which those ships belong can afford to keep them afloat...so again. I think the Argentines have other priorities beyond mythical fishing boat launched nukes

A more fitting analogy for your future highly improbable Falklands conflict would be well … … the last one as they share almost everything in common... theatre, objectives etc… in fact the only really difference being that Argentina no longer has a navy, army or air force worth mentioning. Also we went into Afghanistan knowing everyone’s history of going into Afghanistan including our own and without any obvious objectives so I suppose that's a sort of arrogance - but id rather the people we left in charge after the event, than the people in charge prior to it.

PS My best friend is a Begum, she will be delighted that you are promoting her to Queen. I’m looking forward to a cuppa at the palace.

 

[Verdane]

@Verdane Before objecting to our trolls, go on your own British Forums who think Indians are living on their aid.

Yes - i've already mentioned we have our own morons too.

 

[AbRaj]

I'd rather not look at Donald Trump if I can help it! Thanks for the apology but no offense taken.

I think my post to Nuvneet outlined my views about how the media/online discussion can skew perseptions. I honestly think that is the case so i'm sorry if he thought I was being patronising. It's like you say - people in India don't have a negative opinion of the UK, but for a UK person reading comments here (and I mean this forum in general) it would seem that the UK is loathed. Perhaps, when you read comments in some UK papers that are negative towards India the same impression is given.

I really don't think most British people do have a negative view of Indians at all. Most people probably don't have much of a view at all really (the big exception is i'm sorry to say Indian call centres - where the opinion is mostly negative sorry!). But most of the really negative stuff (racist) probably is directed at Pakistan and muslims generally because of terrorism, rapes etc... Not that i'm saying that's a good thing either! People are just people really, so sweeping generalisations towards anyone is pointless.

But you can see a lot of articles about India in UK papers than vice versa, and our anger is towards all that negativity your media show for us which is not unexpected
You almost 90% of times see Britain in positive light in Indian Papers be it defence relations, commerce, investment, cultural exchanges but same can not be said about your media, obviously you can find some articles about demanding official apology for certain hideous crimes committed by some imperial British officers or at max demand for return some sword, kohinoor Dimond etc nothing more, we even don't demand compensation from you people but then again you don't see all this as faithful and encouraging.
Despite of centuries of cultural exchange most of you people don't have a view about us and If some do have then they think us as beggars living in filthy land, roads filled with cows, Hindus beating/lynching Muslims and Christians for eating beef etc and people who are taking your call center jobs and tax money in form of donation
Buddy you should know that though we depend on you people for some jobs or some humanitarian help but we are not entirely depend on you and forcing or blackmailing you to do that
You should know the amount of money alloted for social welfare in our annual budget
BTW you too are benefactor of our mutual trade and defense relationship

Our some big companies have healthy presence in your country like JLR, TCS,Tata steel, HAL, Britania, pharma companies, IT companies like Infosys Wipro, M&M etc and now we are third largest investors in UK (so No we are not insignificant as you think) and yes UK too is among largest investors in India (no denying about that)

So why all this negativity???

 

[Nuvneet Kundu]

Perhaps you are misunderstanding the term "peaceful" in the agreement under nuclear energy?

The word 'peaceful' in any international agreement is meant to be misunderstood to be accurately understood. It's an intentional misnomer.

India herself was able to reach nuclear status from the peaceful civil-nuclear technology passed on to us by Canada. It's a well documented fact. Pakistan reached nuclear threshold due to the peaceful nuclear technology given to it by China. Israel reached nuclear threshold due to the peaceful nuclear technology given to it by France.

Nuclear technology is peaceful just like Islam is a religion of peace.

 

[Verdane]

Quite, I don’t really disagree with anything you wrote. Though I still think you are overstating the negativity - or at least misunderstanding where it comes from. 90% of articles in British newspapers about Britain are negative too! Journalists and Politicians respectively are regularly ranked as the least liked professions in the UK - for good reason! Plus far too much of the media is in the hands of people like Rupert Murdock. So it's not the most objective mechanism for learning about the world.

As for the perception some people have of India, well perceptions change over time but our understanding of what India is, is probably a little myopic and fuzzy But I'd also say they are changing. As you point out there is a lot of mutual investment between both countries which wouldn’t happen if there was at least at some level a degree of mutual understanding!

 

[Verdane]

Hmm well you win a box of Chocolates if Agentina launches a nuke in the next 5 years.

 

[Nuvneet Kundu]

Hmm well you win a box of Chocolates if Agentina launches a nuke in the next 5 years.

It's not a matter of 5 years or 5 minutes. Deterrence is always psychological. If Israel didn't have nukes then the Arab hordes would have overrun them by now. Nuclear deterrence allows a smaller adversary to wield disproportionate negotiating power over a conventionally superior foe.

Once Argentina reaches nuclear threshold, Britain will have to measure its words while talking to Argentina. Not to mention, if Argentinian state faces existential threat or if their economy collapses or their state faces imminent annihilation due to some unsavory reasons (terror attacks, MI6/CIA sponsored 'spontaneous' uprisings, economic terrorism, sanctions), the first thing it will do is deliver a neatly dressed nuke to Britan as a parting shot and take you down with them.

It's unfortunate because then I wont get the chocolates that you promised.

"there is a lot of mutual investment between both countries which wouldn’t happen if there was at least at some level a degree of mutual understanding!"

​

Opss! I hope this small 2 billion $ hiccup isn't going to be an impediment in buying chocolates.