Uniform Civil Code

Discussion in 'Politics & Society' started by Yusuf, Apr 17, 2009.

  1. sayareakd

    sayareakd Moderator Moderator

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    In Ramayan Lord Ram's father had more then one wives, so why such a fuss about uniform civil code ???
     
  2. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

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    Speaking for my community which is very closely knit and guided by our Leader, divorce in our community doesnt happen by uttering the three words. Its not accepted until the priest is there as a witness and a complete form (like nikah form). Before that, the priest tries his best to resolve whatever differences that might be that the couple is asking for divorce.

    Thats my very tiny sect that im talking about. Like i said we are very progressive and liberal.
     
  3. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

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    You seem to know about my very tiny community. Thats good. we are just about a million in this whole wide world.
    99.9% are into business. A lot are now taking up professional careers as docs and engineers. Im an engineer myself, but a businessman by choice.
     
  4. johnee

    johnee Elite Member Elite Member

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    very good.
    but the personal law is not limited to just your progressive community, isnt it?
    it is also applicable to not so progressive communities with in islam. recently, we had an incident where a drunken man uttered the triple talaq to his wife, but realised his mistake once he is sober, but the elders of the community decided that since he has already uttered the words, they are officially divorced. both husband and wife would now have to marry different ppl before they can remarry!
    infact, the arguement you presented could be presented to defend dowry as well.
    anyway, IMO, it cannot be the descretion of individual communities to decide, but a common rule for all indians to follow.
     
  5. Flint

    Flint Senior Member Senior Member

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    Yep, I've even been to the shrine on Muhammed Ali Road :p
     
  6. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

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    Thats why i said its all on interpretation. That incident you are talking about is sheer stupidity. Thats why we have our priest sitting down with witnesses talking sense before actually granting a divorce. So drunken talaq and stuff is ruled out.
    I had also read somewhere that a man had uttered the words in his dream, and was forced to divorce his wife. All this defies common sense to say the least.
     
  7. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

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    Wow thats great. People in our community take "minnats" to go there. If there are some who have not been there even once in their lives due to financial reasons, then there is a community program that sponsors then the trip.
     
  8. Flint

    Flint Senior Member Senior Member

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    Johnee the comparison with Swat sharia is rather disingenuous. Trust me if the Talibs ever came to know what the Dawoodi Bohras were doing they wouldn't let them last one day.
     
  9. johnee

    johnee Elite Member Elite Member

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    not really. as yusuf said, there can be different interpretations, but which interpretation is right? tell me, if push came to shove and All India Muslim Board(or something similar) had to decide the correct interpretation of entire sharia, would they be going against talibs? since, Dawoodi Boharas are a minority, their liberal interpretation wont be taken as right. we know how alimony was interpreted in shah bano case. so, in religion orthodox will always prevail over the liberals. hence, it can be fairly assumed that if criminal laws of sharia were to be imposed than it would be same as Swat.
    no offence to any religion. but IMO, either every religion is special and hence should be governed by those religious laws or regardless of religion, everyone must have the same rule.
    but rightnow, we are neither there nor here. this make no sense.
     
  10. vish

    vish Regular Member

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    Yusuf & Flint:

    Which shrine you guys talking about? Is it Saifree Masjid?

    Yusuf, I have many Bohri friends, and you guys are a lovely bunch of people.
     
  11. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

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    No Raudat Tahera which is very close to Saifee Masjid.
    Thanks Vish. We are all peace loving bunch of people bothered about our business.
     
  12. Flint

    Flint Senior Member Senior Member

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    Hang on I think I misread your older post.
     
  13. shiv

    shiv Regular Member

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    hey Yusuf i would really like to know more about your little community and its history.Can you explain your history or guide me to a link? it will be greatly appreciated cuz i have never heard of this clan and i am very interested
     
  14. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

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  15. Vinod2070

    Vinod2070 मध्यस्थ Stars and Ambassadors

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    I think having a uniform civil law is important but by taking the communities into confidence. It should not be seen as some community being forced to go against their will.

    But a few hardliners should not be allowed to play spoilsport either. Second point is that any citizen of India belonging to any religion should be allowed to chose between his/her religious law or the common law till the time we have a UCC in place.

    We can't have an Imrana be punished by a useless cleric and not give her a choice as to which law she wants to apply against her rapist father in law.
     
  16. Samudra

    Samudra New Member

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    Ideally the uniform civil code needs to be marketed, understood and implemented as a tool towards much broader social reforms and restructuring. You know - get the Mullah and the Padre out of the system.

    The emancipation of women for example. Actually this is my only primary concern. Always believed that when you educate a women you get the whole friggin family out of the gutters for generations.

    But reform without the consent of the society is very hard. Namumkin hain! It would be for the societies themselves to decide if they want to stay behind or march ahead with the rest of the world.

    Personally - any practise that is seen as having divine origins and usually prone to be carried out with due justifications for the practise is bad.

    The Sharia is one such system.
     
  17. Antimony

    Antimony Regular Member

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    UCC - Why bother

    As Yusuf said, we already have a Criminal Code (long overdue for an overhaul) that applies evenly to all.

    There are certainly sections of civil codes that should be applied the same to all - Urban Land Ceiling is a good example.

    Apart from that, if the civil law pertaining to a certain community neither creates problems nor unfair advantages to people under the purview of that law or outside it, I do not see why it should be anyone's concern.

    The AIMPLB laws relating to teen talak, 4 wives or marriage under 18 are discriminatory in nature to Muslim women and therefore should be repudiated. But after such discriminations are taken care of, I do not see why any non-muslim should even be interested in ths matter. For instance, if the AIMPLB declares that a marriage will not be recognised if the religious ceremony does not actually take place, who am I, a Hindu (apparently), to cry foul if the Muslim community is comfortable with this?

    Another example - currently inheritance in Hindu families come either under the Mitakshara system (most of North India) or the Dayabhag system
    (Assam and Bengal). What if some politician suddenly decided that all inheritance should come under either Mitakshara or Dayabhag? Imagine the chaos at inheritance courts.

    Who decides what is better for everyone? What gives a politician from another state/ religion/ culture the right to decide what I should or should not do in my personal life, if I am not bothering anyone else with whatever I am doing?

    By the way, Samudra, you forgot to mention taking the Pandit out of the picture as well.

    I wanted to add to my post, if the politicans feel like doing some legislating, there are a tonne of extremely importasnt reforms that they should turn their attention to, instead of this hoary old chestnut of UCC.

    Police Reforms are long overdue. So are reforms of the judciary, immigration, small scale industry, power and so on. Let them take down those first
     
  18. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

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    I dont know where in Sharia it says that women should not be eductated. I am no authority on Sharia, but all i can say that in my community, women are encouraged to study. My sister did her graduation in commerce and also worked for MNCs like HP and Reuters. My cousin is an M.Com and is now pursuing Phd
    My wife is a Bsc. I know of doctors as well.

    The problem is that people think Sharia is what is propagated by the Taliban. No one wants to see the good side of it or atleast the good interpretation of it. Taliban has its own interpretation, that of a crude one. Probably to hold on to power or grab power.
     
  19. Flint

    Flint Senior Member Senior Member

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    Samudra, I would much rather prefer the BJP to aggressively campaign for police, judicial and agrarian reforms than this issue.

    But I guess they know very well what will get them the most votes.
     
  20. Samudra

    Samudra New Member

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    The argument that if a certain community wants to live by some rules they have to be allowed to do so irrespective of its effects on itselves is silly. Imagine somebody in the Hindu community used the same argument for sati, child marriage or infact even the caste-based discriminations. You'd think people are not bringing in divine texts to justify many of the medieval practises. The Kanchi mutt chief in a book has clearly advocated the need to somehow stick to child marriage and caste-discriminations. The Hindu however has a choice. He is not bound by the civil code of the country to stick to his religious leaders to dictate how he lives his life.

    It is dishonest to extrapolate the case of the forward looking Bohra community to the rest of the 130 million Muslims in the country. The Imrana and Shah Bano cases are good examples.

    Now if people like antimony believe one need not bother when the All India Muslim Personal Law Board actually endorses a fatwa that equates adultery and rape then has not the civil society failed the Muslim women? Are we to sit back and allow the Dar-ul-uloom people to dicate how Muslim women are to be treated?

    Sure - Hindu women may be facing equally bad treatment. Police reforms are urgently needed, but honestly which urgent requirement of the Indian society negates the need to do justice to the Muslim community and free them from the clutches of an Ulema that lives in medieval ages?

    Do tell us - to which set of laws did the All India Womens Personal Law board look up to when the Imrana case backfired?

    Like I keep saying - the UCC needs to be looked at as a tool of reform. It is one thing to have a set of arbitration laws and systems and totally another to let the Muslim community sink in the cesspool of medieval era fatwas and Ulemas.

    Yusuf - honestly - you admit you are not an authority on the Sharia. In a debate would not the question then be why defend something that you do not yet fully understand? :sharabi:
     

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