Understanding China

Status
Not open for further replies.

johnee

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 1, 2009
Messages
3,473
Likes
499
this is certainly not the first time that he has talked about eating penis as a method to insult us.

it's not difficult to see that this thread is not about mutual understanding, from the very first post it was an exercise in dehumanization. chinese people have no morality, our entire culture based on deception, blah blah.

i hope it works for you guys.
The point is most Indians dont know much about Chinese, so they tend to believe anything and everything. Indians may come across an article that portrays the chinese as strange and believe it on face-value. It would be better for the chinese to clear the mis-understandings.
 

nimo_cn

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 18, 2009
Messages
4,032
Likes
883
Country flag
tianShan, you are spoiling the thread, why not just surround and watch,
 

Tianshan

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 2, 2011
Messages
675
Likes
249
The point is most Indians dont know much about Chinese, so they tend to believe anything and everything. Indians may come across an article that portrays the chinese as strange and believe it on face-value. It would be better for the chinese to clear the mis-understandings.
clear the mis-understandings? why?

anyone with any sense would already know that penis is not a mainstream part of any chinese cuisine. ray of course knows this most of all, but that doesn't stop him from talking about it all day long.

if anyone actually used reason or logic, they would obviously know that the arguments in the OP are faulty, such as chinese people have no morality and that our entire culture is based on deception.

i don't need to tell anyone this, because deep down they already know. but i hope they convince themselves and their fellow countrymen that we truly are some sort of inhuman creatures with no morality. i truly hope they succeed.
 

johnee

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 1, 2009
Messages
3,473
Likes
499
clear the mis-understandings? why?

anyone with any sense would already know that penis is not a mainstream part of any chinese cuisine. ray of course knows this most of all, but that doesn't stop him from talking about it all day long.

if anyone actually used reason or logic, they would obviously know that the arguments in the OP are faulty, such as chinese people have no morality and that our entire culture is based on deception.

i don't need to tell anyone this, because deep down they already know. but i hope they convince themselves and their fellow countrymen that we truly are some sort of inhuman creatures with no morality. i truly hope they succeed.
I understand your sense of angst. I am not suggesting that there is no malice. I am saying that even if there is malice, chinese should still give their POV. Because there are lots of Indians and others who would be open-minded. You should not generalise all Indians as hostile.
 

pmaitra

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 10, 2009
Messages
33,262
Likes
19,594
clear the mis-understandings? why?

anyone with any sense would already know that penis is not a mainstream part of any chinese cuisine. ray of course knows this most of all, but that doesn't stop him from talking about it all day long.

if anyone actually used reason or logic, they would obviously know that the arguments in the OP are faulty, such as chinese people have no morality and that our entire culture is based on deception.

i don't need to tell anyone this, because deep down they already know. but i hope they convince themselves and their fellow countrymen that we truly are some sort of inhuman creatures with no morality. i truly hope they succeed.
Tianshan,

You named yourself after a mountain. Why not be majestic like those very mountains?

Leave this quibbling and see my post (#52) where I defended the Chinese against most of those accusations in OP that you mentioned in your quote above.

Relax. The biggest mistake that you can make in life is to try and make everyone happy.
 

Ray

The Chairman
Professional
Joined
Apr 17, 2009
Messages
43,132
Likes
23,835
i have read your posts, and apart from the articles you have copied and pasted, i must say you show very little understanding of our culture.

and you clearly know the double meaning of "Tongzhi" which is why you keep using it in conjunction with your "chinese people eat penis" line, as some sort of additional hidden insult.
I copied and pasted.

What did you expect me to do?

Write scholarly tome in a post when it is readily available and researched by people better than me?

What is Tongzhi? It is Comrade.

Why don't you educate us if you feel it is not so?

Now, if you feel I know the double meaning of Tongzhi, don't you think that your contention that I don't understand the Chinese a wee bit odd and false?

How many here, apart from the Chinese, would know that there is a so called double meaning?

And anyway, I called you a Comrade since all Communists are Comrades.

Tvarich in Russian!

Sathi in Hindi and Bengali!

You are an odd fish. You claim that I do not understand the Chinese on one hand, and then you claim that I know everything!

Here is your latest:

ray of course knows this most of all, but that doesn't stop him from talking about it all day long.
I am not quoting from articles alone. I am quoting from books written by internationally acclaimed authors.

Now, if I mention anything about the book Wild Swans by Jung Chang, you will bring another interesting accusation.

If I talk of hukou and other such systems, you will say it is mocking!

Give me a break!

How many people in the world know that there are many different styles of Chinese cuisine?

Therefore, what is not mainstream at one place, need not be mainstream elsewhere.

Everyone cannot afford caviar. Does it mean that it is not eaten by people who can afford it and which is normal for them?
 
Last edited:

SPIEZ

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 24, 2011
Messages
3,508
Likes
1,021
Country flag
Chinesse eat penis, French eat frogs ....:shocked:

I guess only humans are left out by humans ourselves. BTW I ve cancelled my lunch plan!
 

Tianshan

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 2, 2011
Messages
675
Likes
249
I understand your sense of angst. I am not suggesting that there is no malice. I am saying that even if there is malice, chinese should still give their POV. Because there are lots of Indians and others who would be open-minded. You should not generalise all Indians as hostile.
my point is that there are NO mis-understandings here.

if you look at it with a clear and objective mind, then it is not difficult to see the answers at all. after all we are human as well.

the forum administrator in the first post, said that chinese people have no morality, and that our entire culture is based on deception, among other things. that we are somehow different from all other human beings, that we have no conscience.

now if you look at it straight forward with an objective mind, then clearly that is not logical.

so it is not a problem of mis-understandings at all. in fact, the arguments here are quite willful and deliberate.
 

pmaitra

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 10, 2009
Messages
33,262
Likes
19,594
I copied and pasted.

What did you expect me to do?

Write scholarly tome in a post when it is readily available and researched by people better than me?

What is Tongzhi? It is Comrade.

Why don't you educate us if you feel it is not so?

Now, if you feel I know the double meaning of Tongzhi, don't you think that your contention that I don't understand the Chinese a wee bit odd and false?

How many here, apart from the Chinese, would know that there is a so called double meaning?

And anyway, I called you a Comrade since all Communists are Comrades.

Tvarich in Russian!

Sathi in Hindi and Bengali!
I have many Chinese friends. There is one whom I always call Tonche and I also have many Russian friends, one of whom I always call Tavarish! They don't mind.

I also had two friends, one Russian and the other Azeri, both from the former USSR. They always exclaimed 'Za Stalina' or 'Za Rodina' as a light hearted joke. Funny guys indeed. Two other funny addressing words used by them were 'Privyet' and 'Comandiir!'



P.S.: Tonche is out of fashion in PRC these days and yes, it does have a double meaning. It is like a pun and your intonation will tell the addressee what you exactly mean.
 
Last edited:

Ray

The Chairman
Professional
Joined
Apr 17, 2009
Messages
43,132
Likes
23,835
Tianshan

Now, just go and find where the information given by me is wrong and correct that.

You will do great service to yourself and to us too!

Don't obfuscate and go tangential as you all tend to do, when in a spot where you cannot correct or explain!

If Tongzhi has a double meaning, it is people who have a weird mind who deconstruct the beautiful meaning of the word which indicates equality of man! Comrade!
 
Last edited:

johnee

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 1, 2009
Messages
3,473
Likes
499
my point is that there are NO mis-understandings here.

if you look at it with a clear and objective mind, then it is not difficult to see the answers at all. after all we are human as well.

the forum administrator in the first post, said that chinese people have no morality, and that our entire culture is based on deception, among other things. that we are somehow different from all other human beings, that we have no conscience.

now if you look at it straight forward with an objective mind, then clearly that is not logical.

so it is not a problem of mis-understandings at all. in fact, the arguments here are quite willful and deliberate.
The said admin made it clear that his opinions were based on his personal interactions and the readings on history(which could have been distorted). At any rate, a chinese man talking about his culture would more convincing to a laymen, than all the articles or books.
When you present chinese pov, you would be challenged by 'stereotypes'. Instead of getting riled by them, explain your stand.

Lastly, you are too caught up on one or two posters(who may be hostile) and missing larger audience.
 

Ray

The Chairman
Professional
Joined
Apr 17, 2009
Messages
43,132
Likes
23,835
I am not hostile to the Chinese.

There is no requirement to be so.

I would be delighted if the material that I have appended is corrected.

It will only assist my understand and study of China.
 

johnee

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 1, 2009
Messages
3,473
Likes
499
I am not hostile to the Chinese.

There is no requirement to be so.

I would be delighted if the material that I have appended is corrected.

It will only assist my understand and study of China.
Sir,
I think he is convinced that you have malicious intent. So, I told him to concentrate on larger audience, even his assumptions are true. Didnt mean any offence to you.
 

Tianshan

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 2, 2011
Messages
675
Likes
249
The said admin made it clear that his opinions were based on his personal interactions and the readings on history(which could have been distorted). At any rate, a chinese man talking about his culture would more convincing to a laymen, than all the articles or books.
When you present chinese pov, you would be challenged by 'stereotypes'. Instead of getting riled by them, explain your stand.

Lastly, you are too caught up on one or two posters(who may be hostile) and missing larger audience.
it is really not that difficult to understand our culture. people make a huge fuss as if we are some sort of alien species, when the truth is that we are human beings just like you are. if you are polite to us in the same way that you are polite to other human beings, then you won't run into many problems.

if you really are sincere in learning about our culture, the best thing to do is to learn the language, and the sayings.

here is a nice site that translates many chinese sayings into english with examples.

Category:Chinese idioms in simplified script - Wiktionary
 
Last edited:

johnee

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 1, 2009
Messages
3,473
Likes
499
Thanks, for that. Will check them out sometime.
 

Ray

The Chairman
Professional
Joined
Apr 17, 2009
Messages
43,132
Likes
23,835
it is really not that difficult to understand our culture. people make a huge fuss as if we are some sort of alien species, when the truth is that we are human beings just like you are. if you are polite to us in the same way that you are polite to other human beings, then you won't run into many problems.

if you really are sincere in learning about our culture, the best thing to do is to learn the language, and the sayings.

here is a nice site that translates many chinese sayings into english with examples.

Category:Chinese idioms in simplified script - Wiktionary
To check out those idioms one has to know the Chinese written on which one is to click.

It is like the fortune cookies of the Chinese restaurant.


For those who do not know Chinese, this is a better link
Chinese proverbs - Wikiquote
 

johnee

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 1, 2009
Messages
3,473
Likes
499
To check out those idioms one has to know the Chinese written on which one is to click.

It is like the fortune cookies of the Chinese restaurant.


For those who do not know Chinese, this is a better link
Chinese proverbs - Wikiquote
Yep, the earlier link was difficult for those who dont know chinese. Ray sir, your posts on the topic have been very informative.
 

Singh

Phat Cat
Super Mod
Joined
Feb 23, 2009
Messages
20,311
Likes
8,403
Country flag
For those Indians who try to eke out a living in China, the biggest barrier is to find a landlord who is willing to put up with the smell that is the result of curry eating day in and day out. I for one have turned down numerous potential tenants simply because he or she is Indian. Not racist, but simply can't stand the awful smell and the green yellowish stain.
That is wholly untrue. Laowis are actively sought by the landlords. And Shanghai realty prices are much lesser than Indian cities.

The biggest barriers for any Indian would be finding the curry ingredients; "Ais" pick up Indian cuisine rather quickly too.

South East Asians, Sichuan, Hokkien, Hunan etc all eat "curries". Shanghainese is the blandest and the worst regional cuisine of Chinese.

Some are willing to pay good money($2500-$3000 a month) for my river-front flats in Shanghai, but NO, thanks, NO.
Sir it is not river-front, it is called the Bund. I guess you have not been to Shanghai but I have. :lol:
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ray

Ray

The Chairman
Professional
Joined
Apr 17, 2009
Messages
43,132
Likes
23,835
Sir,
I think he is convinced that you have malicious intent. So, I told him to concentrate on larger audience, even his assumptions are true. Didnt mean any offence to you.
The problem with some of the Chinese is what it called "Han cultural Arrogance".

Now, don't believe me if you don't what to.

Just to illustrate.

The wage war and they call it 'teaching a lesson'! Imagine that! The Headmaster of the world! When actually they are waging war and destruction! Why shy way from the stark reality and truth?

It is just to show that they are wonderful and are merely lessoning the world.

The supply weapons to rogue nations like Sudan and Zimbabwe and justify it that they never interfere with the internal affairs of another country! In other words, perpetuate a massacre with your weapons and turn the Nelson's eye so long as the money comes in!

They blame the west for imperialism and see what they are doing in Africa and that too, with a straight face. Check what Revd Desmond Tutu has to say.


That apart, here is something else:

Cables Reveal Resentment at Chinese Influence in Africa

China has strengthened its economic and political ties in Africa in recent years in an effort to open up new markets and secure much-needed raw materials. The leaked US diplomatic cables reveal that Africans are growing increasingly resentful of China's aims and methods.

The young worker had had enough. He was fed up with all the accidents, all the broken promises, the anger of the supervisors and, lastly, the pay raises that were pledged but which never came. So, in mid-October, Vincent Chengele, 20, and some of his fellow coal miners gathered in front of the Collum Coal Mine in southern Zambia. Before long, there were a number of miners protesting against their bosses -- Chinese investors who had bought the mine in 2003.

All of a sudden, shots rang out as Chinese overseers began firing wildly into the crowd. Chengele and 10 other miners fell to the ground injured.

A wave of outrage went through Zambia. Even President Rupiah Banda, who usually supported Chinese investment in his country, condemned the violent response. Elijah Muchima, a minister in Southern Province where the mine is located, complained that Zambians were "being treated like animals." He criticized how the workers were paid as day laborers rather than being given contracts, and condemned their "slave salaries."

It wasn't the first time there had been conflict with the Chinese. The mine had already been closed on several occasions due to dangerous conditions. In 2006, some brusque Chinese foremen simply refused to allow the Zambian minister responsible for mining to enter the complex.

And allowing the Chinese in Zambia to have weapons would also appear to be a bad idea: According to the Tanzanian English-language daily The Citizen, a Chinese foreman fired upon striking workers at a copper mine in Zambia a few months ago. The paper reported that some people were even comparing the Chinese to "Africa's former colonial masters."

Hungry for Markets and Materials

China is currently more active in Africa than any other foreign power. Chinese President Hu Jintao has already visited 20 African countries, and the Chinese premier and foreign minister have also made regular visits to the continent. Likewise, ministerial-level meetings between African and Chinese officials are frequently held -- and are popular with the Africans because they often return home with new contracts in their pockets. In 2009 alone, Chinese companies invested roughly $56.5 billion (€41.3 billion) in Africa.

In recent years, the Chinese government and private Chinese companies have signed hundreds of contracts with African partners. China has extended loans worth billions and sent thousands of workers to Africa, which is now home to almost a million Chinese. They have built hundreds of hospitals and thousands of kilometers of roads, as well as government buildings, railway lines and football stadiums.

If it weren't for this aid, many African countries would be significantly worse off than they currently are. China, the manufacturing giant, needs Africa as a market for its goods. But, even more importantly, it needs Africa in order to satisfy its need for raw materials. And the Chinese have a thirst for all kinds of natural resources, including gold, wood, copper, coal, oil and coltan.

Growing Resentment

American diplomats posted in Africa keep a very close eye on the activities of the world's only other major power. Indeed, they send very detailed reports to Washington from almost all of the countries in Africa. But the leaked dispatches don't only include information about the skyrocketing growth in trade. They also discuss the growing resentment among Africans toward the Chinese. Naturally the whole discussion revolves around issues such as power on the continent, security interests and spheres of influence. And often billions of dollars are at stake.

For example, international observers were astonished at the end of 2007 when the government of the Democratic Republic of Congo reached a comprehensive deal worth over $9.2 billion with Beijing. The agreement guaranteed China mining rights that will help it secure 10 million tons of copper and 620,000 tons of cobalt.

"The Sino-Congolese agreement immediately raised concerns among both multilateral and bilateral donors regarding the loan-agreements on the Democratic Republic of Congo's debt sustainability," is how one dispatch from American diplomats later described it. Congo already owed billions of dollars to the World Bank and other Western creditors, so a new contract with China would make it more difficult for them to secure payments on either the interest or the principal of their loans.

At a later point, William Garvelink, America's ambassador to Congo, wrote: "Throughout 2008 and the first half of 2009, neither the Chinese nor the government of the Democratic Republic of Congo indicated any real willingness to revise the agreement to ensure compatibility with debt sustainability."

The dispatches coming out of the US Embassy in the Congolese capital Kinshasa provide rare insights into the worlds of international finance and development policy. For example, in May 2009, Dominique Strauss-Kahn, the managing director of the International Monetary Fund (IMF), came to Kinshasa. "While the visit was ostensibly to discuss the impact of the global financial crisis on a number of African countries, in reality, however, it was used to push the government of the Democratic Republic of Congo to take the necessary political steps to engage the Chinese on renegotiating the Sino-Congolese agreement," reads one cable.

Eventually, Western pressure had an effect, and Congolese President Joseph Kabila caved in. The agreement was trimmed down by about a third.

Old Friends, New Partners

Beijing has long had close relations with a number of African states. For example, Cameroon has been considered an ally since 1971, partly because of its government's early decision to support China's hard line against Taiwan. In return, the Chinese constructed a hydro-electric power station in Lagdo, built hospitals and roads, sent doctors to the country and trained Cameroonian officer cadets in China.

The Chinese are also extremely active in Angola. After the country's civil war ended in 2002, Western donors were hesitant at first and were only willing to grant loans with tough conditions attached. But Beijing jumped right in. China's Eximbank extended a loan worth over $4 billion and reportedly issued another one soon thereafter. At least one of the loans includes a condition requiring Angola's government to grant major contracts to Chinese companies.

The Chinese also built four new football stadiums for the Angolans -- in Luanda, Benguela, Lubango and Cabinda -- which hosted the games of the 2010 Africa Cup tournament in January. They have spent millions to help repair the famous Benguela railway line. And they also plan to build a new international airport in Luanda, the Angolan capital.

Investment with Strings Attached: Cables Reveal Resentment at Chinese Influence in Africa - SPIEGEL ONLINE - News - International
I am posting this not out of malice, but because Tianshan claims that one does not understand the Chinese culture and misrepresents.

This is to indicate that it appears that either none understand the Chinese or the Chinese do not want people to understand them and they think they alone are beyond any issues and people who inhabit the Middle Kingdom.

The very fact that they call themselves the Middle Kingdom indicates the high opinion they have of themselves and feel anything adverse is just not on!
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Status
Not open for further replies.

Latest Replies

Global Defence

New threads

Articles

Top