Understanding China

[LurkerBaba]

Yeah, nice hate thread LukerBaba. I'm sure saying the Chinese are an evil selfish race makes you sleep better.

The word "evil" has not been used. But self centered yes.

How is a corrupt India any more moral than China? Is letting an abused neglected and starved Indian peasant woman trying to feed her children protest in the street instead of giving her the opportunity to provide for her family more moral than fighting to bring a better life to Chinese citizens?

Lecture me on morality when you can actually feed your own people instead of being the world's largest Importer of weapons...

It's not a lecture on morality. I'm an immoral atheist

 

[J20!]

The word "evil" has not been used. But self centered yes.



It's not a lecture on morality. I'm an immoral atheist

Well, so far, you've said of not only the Chinese government, but ALL chinese people:

1. We have no morality: "but I'm extending it to a people i.e the Chinese"

2. We are liars and deceivers: "Chinese culture is based on deception. Judge them ONLY by their actions, and not their words"

3. Materialistic and lacking culture and religion: "materialism is the the only thing they follow"

4. Selfish and self-absorbed: "It is selfish and self-absorbed"

All of which is incredibly racist, insulting AND EXTREMELY UNTRUE. I'm very Chinese, and I think I know my hard-working country countrymen more than you do.

 

[Singh]

The word "evil" has not been used. But self centered yes.
It's not a lecture on morality. I'm an immoral atheist

Well, so far, you've said of not only the Chinese government, but ALL chinese people:

1. We have no morality: "but I'm extending it to a people i.e the Chinese"

2. We are liars and deceivers: "Chinese culture is based on deception. Judge them ONLY by their actions, and not their words"

3. Materialistic and lacking culture and religion: "materialism is the the only thing they follow"

4. Selfish and self-absorbed: "It is selfish and self-absorbed"

All of which is incredibly racist, insulting AND EXTREMELY UNTRUE. I'm very Chinese, and I think I know my hard-working country countrymen more than you do.

I haven't even gone through the whole thread, but that is the most INSULTING analysis I've ever heard. I know its your own opinion, but yes, you are stereotyping due to your own bias. You're saying the Chinese people are selfish, straight out. If that isn't stereotyping and RACIST, I don't know what is.

IMO being self-centered is not a bad thing. It's way better than showing fake morality

Right, being self-centered gives the right to insult others willfully.
You are totally a jacka$$, I am being self-centered when saying that.

There is a difference in being self-centered and being rude. One can be both, as in your case

Yeah, nice hate thread LukerBaba. I'm sure saying the Chinese are an evil selfish race makes you sleep better.
How is a corrupt India any more moral than China? Is letting an abused neglected and starved Indian peasant woman trying to feed her children protest in the street instead of giving her the opportunity to provide for her family more moral than fighting to bring a better life to Chinese citizens?
Lecture me on morality when you can actually feed your own people instead of being the world's largest Importer of weapons...

The only people who is rude is the one who invented the ridiculous being-self-centered theory to defend his rudeness, I am just following suit.

Well you're both. And a racist for calling every Chinese person I know, including my family, "selfish".

J20, you forgot to mention you were just being self-centered when posting this.

The word "evil" has not been used. But self centered yes.
It's not a lecture on morality. I'm an immoral atheist

==

@lb - at one hand you claim chinese are self-centered and otoh experts say chinese believe in a collective. how do you reconcile this dichotomy ?
are not all people self-centered ?
are you aware why they are "self-centered" ?

@nimo, @j20 - if the chinese aren't self centered then how do you explain them not helping bystanders, violating ip rights, and all those fake food scares, girls marrying only guys who have apartments, all those scams, spending so much on your only child because he is your ticket to the future ?
don't you think when laowi see this, they think all chinese are self-centered ?

this thread was started to understand the chinese,

if you nimo and j20 think chinese are not self-centered and by corollary are altruistic then explain so..

if you think, lb, chinese are inherently self-centered then give supporting examples rather than make assumptions.

stop obfuscating the issues, and scuttling the debate.

 

[LurkerBaba]

==

@lb - at one hand you claim chinese are self-centered and otoh experts say chinese believe in a collective. how do you reconcile this dichotomy ?
are not all people self-centered ?
are you aware why they are "self-centered" ?

.....

.....

if you think, lb, chinese are inherently self-centered then give supporting examples rather than make assumptions.

My original statement was

4. China (and the Chinese) remain quite ethnocentric. This is not a civilization like USA which will spread culture and change people's/country's loyalties by promoting protestant Christianity. It is selfish and self-absorbed

Im referring to the Chinese civilization itself not individuals. It is self centered and self absorbed in how it views itself.

Within their own Han community, Chinese are a collective. But this changes when other communities/nations/civilizations come into the picture

 

[asianobserve]

What have we done to warrant your EVIL EMPIRE status exactly?

Just look at your history. But more importantly for us, you're a bully that has no qualms at throwing you're weight on smaller countries.

 

[J20!]

All of which is incredibly racist, insulting AND EXTREMELY UNTRUE. I'm very Chinese, and I think I know my hard-working country countrymen more than you do.



















==

@lb - at one hand you claim chinese are self-centered and otoh experts say chinese believe in a collective. how do you reconcile this dichotomy ?
are not all people self-centered ?
are you aware why they are "self-centered" ?

@nimo, @j20 - if the chinese aren't self centered then how do you explain them not helping bystanders, violating ip rights, and all those fake food scares, girls marrying only guys who have apartments, all those scams, spending so much on your only child because he is your ticket to the future ?
don't you think when laowi see this, they think all chinese are self-centered ?

this thread was started to understand the chinese,

if you nimo and j20 think chinese are not self-centered and by corollary are altruistic then explain so..

if you think, lb, chinese are inherently self-centered then give supporting examples rather than make assumptions.

stop obfuscating the issues, and scuttling the debate.

This isn't a debate. Just say it outright that what Lukerbaba posted is wrong and offensive. Not to me, but to every Chinese man or woman.

Are you saying there are no scams in India? No thieves, no criminals, no unjust people, no gold digging women?

Are you saying its wrong for two parents to pamper their only child? Is it wrong to want your child to have the best possible future? Is it wrong to want your ONLY child to take of you in your old age, when you can't work anymore.

There are bad people in EVERY country, all around the world. There are scams and opportunists in The Stares, Zimbabwe, Korea, Yugoslavia, INDIA.

Saying every Chinese person and The Chinese Government is bad, or is everything on the list LukerBaba put up is hateful and RACIST. Me saying because of what Bernard Madoff did, all Americans are thieves and are greedy would be "racist and stereotyping".

 

[niharjhatn]

Just look at your history. But more importantly for us, you're a bully that has no qualms at throwing you're weight on smaller countries.

Exactly.

China had the ability to really pull through as an almost beacon to the rest of Asia - China had the ability to help bring cohesiveness to Asia as a whole. Look at Europe - their own cohesiveness - even after two wars, nations are pulling together to help each other out during the debt crisis.

Instead, China has only helped continue the continual s*** kicking and only takes part in the rug pulling that was central to Asian foreign policy... but perhaps is starting to change.

 

[J20!]

Just look at your history. But more importantly for us, you're a bully that has no qualms at throwing you're weight on smaller countries.

Calling us equals to Imperial Japan ( which by the way was guilty of GENOCIDE against the CHINESE people) and the USSR was baseless and insulting. Which small countries have we abused? China has been trying to resolve disputes with small countries diplomatically. Have we sent gunboats and our largest warships to intimidate Vietnam and the Philippines? They've been holding Live fire exercises in disputed waters to send messages to us. Have we responded in kind? A bully would MILITARILY intimidate them. Have we? Would Imperial Japan have the same restraint? Would the USSR seek diplomatic resolutions? You are not supporting your evil empire claims with facts.

 

[niharjhatn]

This isn't a debate. Just say it outright that what Lukerbaba posted is wrong and offensive. Not to me, but to every Chinese man or woman.

Are you saying there are no scams in India? No thieves, no criminals, no unjust people, no gold digging women?

Are you saying its wrong for two parents to pamper their only child? Is it wrong to want your child to have the best possible future? Is it wrong to want your ONLY child to take of you in your old age, when you can't work anymore.

There are bad people in EVERY country, all around the world. There are scams and opportunists in The Stares, Zimbabwe, Korea, Yugoslavia, INDIA.

Saying every Chinese person and The Chinese Government is bad, or is everything on the list LukerBaba put up is hateful and RACIST. Me saying because of what Bernard Madoff did, all Americans are thieves and are greedy would be "racist and stereotyping".

Pfff you guys are WAY to sensitive. If you are not self centred, act like it and don't respond in such a petty manner. Ask for an apology and move on.

You call such stereotyping racist... you guys have NO idea what racism is. Ask an Indian/brown/black guy growing up in apartheid South Africa about RACISM.

Racism is prejudiced views against a race - views so prejudiced that you consciously see yourself as better than that guy, judging him solely on their race.

Some person with what you see as an ignorant view of Chinese is different to the 'RACISM' you are crying.

BTW America is not one race. Criticizing america is not being racist.

 

[Singh]

Calling us equals to Imperial Japan ( which by the way was guilty of GENOCIDE against the CHINESE people) and the USSR was baseless and insulting. Which small countries have we abused? China has been trying to resolve disputes with small countries diplomatically. Have we sent gunboats and our largest warships to intimidate Vietnam and the Philippines? They've been holding Live fire exercises in disputed waters to send messages to us. Have we responded in kind? A bully would MILITARILY intimidate them. Have we? Would Imperial Japan have the same restraint? Would the USSR seek diplomatic resolutions? You are not supporting your evil empire claims with facts.

Oh please I have been to the nanjing massacre museum ! the amount of propaganda there was nauseating.
Everything in english, japanese and chinese and ironically japanese are barred from visiting it.

Japanese didn't do anything that the Chinese wouldn't have done to them.

 

[J20!]

Instead, China has only helped continue the continual s*** kicking and only takes part in the rug pulling that was central to Asian foreign policy... but perhaps is starting to change.

What s*** kicking? What rug pulling? When did China ignore a plea for help from an asian neighbor?

 

[civfanatic]

Calling us equals to Imperial Japan ( which by the way was guilty of GENOCIDE against the CHINESE people) and the USSR was baseless and insulting.

Didn't the Qing dynasty commit genocide on a massive scale against the Oirats (Dzungars) in the 18th century?

 

[J20!]

Pfff you guys are WAY to sensitive. If you are not self centred, act like it and don't respond in such a petty manner. Ask for an apology and move on.

You call such stereotyping racist... you guys have NO idea what racism is. Ask an Indian/brown/black guy growing up in apartheid South Africa about RACISM.

Racism is prejudiced views against a race - views so prejudiced that you consciously see yourself as better than that guy, judging him solely on their race.

Some person with what you see as an ignorant view of Chinese is different to the 'RACISM' you are crying.

BTW America is not one race. Criticizing america is not being racist.

So you're saying I'm being "sensitive" when someone says my WHOLE nation, including my kids and parents are immoral, selfish, materialistic? Racism is branding a whole race with certain trait. Calling all black peoplestupid would be racist as well. Brush up on your facts.

And please Indian neighbors, The Japanese masacre of our people was a really sad period in our History. The European exploitation and brutalizing of our people is also a horrible period in Chinese history. Saying "Japanese didn't do anything the Chinese wouldn't have done to them" is beyond disgusting to me and any other MORAL Chinese citizen. Are you saying I would murder Japanese babies if I could? I would Massacre whole Japanese towns and villages, just because they're Japanese? That churns my stomach.

Show some respect to those who lost their lives and loved ones.

 

[J20!]

Didn't the Qing dynasty commit genocide on a massive scale against the Oirats (Dzungars) in the 18th century?

For Pete's sake, stop referring to long lost dynasties. So what, all those Chinese deserved their fate for what their ancestors did?

 

[The Messiah]

For Pete's sake, stop referring to long lost dynasties. So what, all those Chinese deserved their fate for what their ancestors did?

Same argument could be applied to imperial japan then.

 

[Singh]

And please Indian neighbors, The Japanese masacre of our people was a really sad period in our History. The European exploitation and brutalizing of our people is also a horrible period in Chinese history. Saying "Japanese didn't do anything the Chinese wouldn't have done to them" is beyond disgusting to me and any other MORAL Chinese citizen. Are you saying I would murder Japanese babies if I could? I would Massacre whole Japanese towns and villages, just because they're Japanese? That churns my stomach.

Show some respect to those who lost their lives and loved ones.

Oh please spare me the holier than thou attitude and logical fallacies.

I repeat what Japanese did is nothing what you guys wouldn't have done to them.

And no I am not saying "you" particularly will murder Japanese babies if you could, how did you infer that from my statement ?

 

[civfanatic]

For Pete's sake, stop referring to long lost dynasties. So what, all those Chinese deserved their fate for what their ancestors did?

If you want to "stop referring to long lost dynasties", then why don't you withdraw all territorial claims based on those dynasties? Of course that would include the territorial claims on Arunachal Pradesh and Ladakh, among others.

Why do you still care about the "Century of Humiliation", if that history doesn't matter?

Or perhaps you want to ignore history unless it is matches your agenda, that is understandable as well.

 

[Ray]

What have we done to warrant your EVIL EMPIRE status exactly? Imperial Japan massacred millions of my country men so they could rule Asia using our resources. The USSR was a brutal regime. Please don't insult us. If China had done any of those things, we'd be sanctioned and isolated, like Iran, or North Korea. China is recovering from being brutalized by occupiers, like JAPAN or the Europeans, its pulling its people from the depths of poverty and oppression. We are improving as a people and as a country, we've grown from Mao, and Tienanmen, Chinese citizens are not oppressed, we're working hard towards better futures for our children. so if we're such a horrible country, maybe Malaysia should stop trade with us, stop diplomatic relations with us, I mean, we're an Imperialist monster that might invade and massacre your children and families, like the "imperialist Japan", you so eloquently compare us to.

If you're gonna post, try to post facts, not bullshit that'll insult members and their respective countries.

Please check your facts.

Since the thread is being jiggled over non consequential, I am refraining from commenting.

We can trace the racist attitude of the Hans as also genocide.

In so far as resource walloping, must one give examples? Is it not evident, through history?

 

[J20!]

Oh please spare me the holier than thou attitude and logical fallacies.

I repeat what Japanese did is nothing what you guys wouldn't have done to them.

And no I am not saying "you" particularly will murder Japanese babies if you could, how did you infer that from my statement ?

You don't seem to care about National tragedies much. You'd probably make jokes about Hiroshima or the Holocaust too. Millions of people being killed is nothing to mock, its not "holier than thou" attitude, its respect for my brutally murdered countrymen.

And no, I don't remember Chinese leaders planning to massacre the Japanese, nor would they ever. If you disagree, provide evidence that proves the Chinese would commit genocide against the Japanese.

I am Chinese. All Chinese soldiers are "Chinese", men much like me. If they could massacre whole Japanese families and villages as you say, why couldn't I? Would you?

 

[Ray]

This isn't a debate. Just say it outright that what Lukerbaba posted is wrong and offensive. Not to me, but to every Chinese man or woman.

Are you saying there are no scams in India? No thieves, no criminals, no unjust people, no gold digging women?

Are you saying its wrong for two parents to pamper their only child? Is it wrong to want your child to have the best possible future? Is it wrong to want your ONLY child to take of you in your old age, when you can't work anymore.

There are bad people in EVERY country, all around the world. There are scams and opportunists in The Stares, Zimbabwe, Korea, Yugoslavia, INDIA.

Saying every Chinese person and The Chinese Government is bad, or is everything on the list LukerBaba put up is hateful and RACIST. Me saying because of what Bernard Madoff did, all Americans are thieves and are greedy would be "racist and stereotyping".

Heaven behold!

I am sure you are not being serious.

LB was giving a general impression that was prevalent beyond the shores of China.

Now, it was a good start to prove that idea wrong, if you sincerely believe so. Please go ahead and do so.

Indeed, no country is perfect, but in every country, other than China, when things go wrong, they express their disagreement publically and openly and are not afraid if the media reports it to the world.

Now, does the same happen in China.

In China, as we see and understand, none protests openly incorrectness of their govt, and even if they do, it never comes out in the Chinese media in critical and analytical manner condemning the incorrect actions of the Govt.

Now, that is the difference between China and the world!