Umpire Decision Referral

Yusuf

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Hot topic this these days in cricket. Old powers want it, champions don't.

India says it's not fool proof and also cost prohibitive as it costs $56,000 a day for hawk eye.

That it's not entirely fool proof has been proved in the world cup as many a times hawk eye was limited by "least count" when it could not judge the ball track when the impact was beyond a certain distance. Add to that because there was no snicko, many edges were not heard during the world cup though the players were one hundred percent sure there was a nick and the tell tale sign of a batsman looking behind immediately.

The debate is going to rage further now because of the howlers by Daryl Harper.

For me you need better technology in terms of hawk eye having better ability assisted with hot spot and snickometer to be 100% sure of technology assisting on field umpires. And yes we need better on field umpires as well.
 

Illusive

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Hotspot is used in DRS in every bilateral series, it was only not used in worldcup. Snickometer is not reliable, hotspot is. BCCI should understand technology evolves with time and what is available now is pretty advanced.

Hawkeye is also used in tennis to review the decision.

I am not foolproof sure if cricket is going to survive if its administered like this.
 

Yusuf

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Hot spot is there only in series involving Oz and it's bit part of DRS.
 

Energon

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This entire conflict showcases the BCCI's obstinate outlook on everything. The BCCI is far too short sighted to see that sport itself is a big driver in the improvement of technology and it is the responsibility of every sporting authority to support this function as much as possible.

These situations only convince me how unfit the BCCI is to assume leadership.
 

Yusuf

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I don't know mate. The success rate of lost teams taking DRS is pretty low except England lately. Players think they have got their man and the review says something else. So I think that has fueled the perception that DRS is not accurate. India has the worst strike rate as far as DRS goes. In the world cup we for about 4 right in 17 or 18 referrals.
 

Rahul M

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nah yusuf that was before, our strike rate in WC was middling, better than half the test playing nations. the earlier sticking point was who was going to pay for hotspot, if ICC or someone else is paying I don't know why BCCI is opposing it now.
 

Yusuf

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nah yusuf that was before, our strike rate in WC was middling, better than half the test playing nations. the earlier sticking point was who was going to pay for hotspot, if ICC or someone else is paying I don't know why BCCI is opposing it now.
I don't think so. We got only 4 going our way. Let me see if there is any link on this.
 

Yusuf

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Found this

UDRS was used in a thrilling tie between India and England in Bangalore as MS Dhoni was annoyed by the system and said that it is an adulteration of human decision and technology, to which the ICC replied that the players should know the technology before passing judgement on it.[10] ICC later revised the guidelines of 2.5m rule. Pakistan used DRS successfully against Australia in their group A match. Australian captain Ricky Ponting edged a delivery from Mohammed Hafeez and the umpire ruled it not out. The DRS system reversed this decision. This was a critical turning point in the match. The Australia skipper admitted after the match that he had edged the ball, but said he stayed at the crease because he has never been a walker. "There were no doubts about the nick - I knew I hit it," Ponting said. "But as always, I wait for the umpire to give me out. That's the way I've always played the game." There has been a lot of criticism levelled at Ricky Ponting for his judgement and displaying poor sportsman spirit.
 

Yusuf

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Well the point again being that the system is not fool proof. Pointing in the cup showed it was not and also showed his sportsman spirit.

See the beat person to judge an LBW is the umpire and the wicket keeper. You cannot have a 25% success rate. Keepers have the best view and also judge the angle of the ball heading towards them. So many times, the ball looks to be heading towards the stumps to the naked eye, but the hawk eye says going down leg or over the stumps.

I am all for technology. But l don't think that this tech is good enough yet.
 

Energon

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Well the point again being that the system is not fool proof.

But l don't think that this tech is good enough yet.
But neither are umpiring calls. The best feature of sport is that there will always be that fine line of uncertainty. But in the mean time all good technologies have to be promoted and that is the only way they get better.

And most of all the costs are definitely not prohibitive for the BCCI.
 
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Yusuf

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Consider Simon Taufel and Aleem Dar. Brilliant umpires. We need more of such umpires. The game goes on faster. We dont need UDRS if we have such umpires. That rare mistake by them could be taken in the stride.

I got pissed with the system during the India England game when a clear case of the batsman being out was given not out because hawk eye left that decision to on field umpires.
 

Daredevil

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Here is another view about why UDRS is not required. Some valid points there.

Say no to UDRS

Chennai, Fri, Jun 24 2011 , by Avinash Subramaniam

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"Hawk-Eye to me is just a cartoon and I'm yet to work out how that graduate can work out where the ball is going to go. You cannot possibly project where it's going to go," said former Test umpire **** French on the increasing use of technology way back in 2005. Yet, it continues to be used, even though it hasn't been improved in any perceptible manner, let alone perfected. How does that make any sense and would we be as tolerant with an on-field umpire?

"It's a nonsense that those watching on TV are in a better position than the umpires," ICC president-elect David Morgan said in 2008. What has changed? Why the clamour for technology now? Cricket has survived and thrived for many decades without it. And so has the number one sport in the world, football.

"The batsman is not out when the umpire says he is out. The batsman is out when Mark Nicholas or Tony Greig or Ian Chappell or Ravi Shastri say he is out," said Dave Richardson, former South Africa keeper and the ICC's cricket manager, on the umpires' plight in the era of Hot Spot, Hawk-Eye and Snicko in 2009. That said, most of the cricket world is thoughtlessly putting its weight behind the technologies, which begs the question - why? One suspects it has more to with how they feel about the BCCI than the merits of introducing technology per se.

"You have two gentlemen as umpires who are professionals. They also have the support of the third umpire. There have been a few mistakes and it's surprising to see the umpires making those mistakes. They could have been avoided if UDRS was there, but does that give the umpires the liberty to give bad decisions?" said the Indian skipper MS Dhoni in 2010. And he's right, isn't he? If three qualified professionals cannot do a job they have been put in place (and paid handsomely for) to carry out, isn't it time to find and appoint people who can, rather than introduce an imperfect system to help incompetent people keep their jobs?

And while on the coolest man in world cricket today, here's another one of his candid gems, "I personally feel it's not a cent per cent thing. I don't think it gives a cent percent result. It's not always correct. If I am going to buy a life jacket which does not come with a warranty, that's a bit of a hassle for me - especially with the huge amount of money you have to spend for the UDRS system coming into the game. I would prefer some kind of warranty behind it. The moment it comes, I would be happy [to go] for it," Dhoni had said when asked for his views on the system. Put simply, would you buy an automobile knowing full well it has bugs in it? Answer: Only if you don't have a choice. Fortunately, there is a better option and it's called appointing better umpires.

"If a majority of the ICC countries believe that the UDRS is a good improvement for international cricket, they should vote for it and say, 'Sorry India, you are in a minority.' It's supposed to be a democracy around the world, where the majority takes precedence," said the always engaging, but not always right, Sir Geoffrey Boycott last week. Who is being browbeaten into accepting it now? Make no mistake, the BCCI is not preventing other countries from employing the flawed system in series not involving India. All it is saying is that since the technology is not foolproof, we don't want to use it because it is not in any way better than what a good umpire can do.

If looked at dispassionately, what UDRS really does is undermine the authority of the on-field umpires, put more pressure on them and make them lazy. An imperfect system is being championed for reasons that are impossible to justify. Furthermore, in order to overcome its known imperfections, rules are being put in place that confuse the players, waste time and make a mockery of the purity of sport. Cricket does not need UDRS, what it needs is more umpires like Aleem Dar and Simon Taufel.
 

Yusuf

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DD, it just seconds what I said in my last post. Better umpires are needed than hawk eye.
 

A.V.

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BCCI relents on DRS, but puts its own spin

Abandoning its rigid stand on technology, the BCCI today agreed to the mandatory use of the controversial Decision Review System in a modified version in all international matches at the ongoing ICC Annual Conference. The modified version would have Hot-Spot technology but without the Hawk Eye ball

BCCI relents on DRS, but puts its own spin - Hindustan Times


-tracker, which would mean that the LBW decisions would not be within the purview of the DRS. The mandatory terms and conditions for the DRS that have now been recommended by ICC's chief executives' committee to the Executive Board for approval tomorrow will now consist of "thermal imaging" and "sound technology". It has been agreed to remove the "ball tracker" from the ICC's original compulsory list of DRS technologies.
 

Yusuf

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Good enough. A lot of inside edges and faint edges go to the batsmen and without the hot spot and snicko we saw in the world cup that UDRS didn't give any conclusive evidence about the batsman being out though he was out in all probability (eg Ricky Ponting who later said he was out but would not walk).

The hawk eye is still not fool proof and should be adopted when it is perfected.
 

Oracle

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Benefit of doubt is always given to the batsmen.
 

Yusuf

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Benefit of doubt is always given to the batsmen.
Yes it is. It has been a batsmens game. Bowlers need respite. But it cannot be blind in terms of using imperfect technology. Hot spot is good. Hawk eye is not.
 

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