Ukraine plans to produce aircraft the Chinese school

[Akim]

Ukraine has produced (not developed) Russian and Soviet developed missiles which design documentation and competences have left in Russia.
Ukraine had just produced optical (IR/Laser and TV) seekers, all the RF seekers came from KTRV, as well as controll systems and rocket motor units. There were final assembly of R-27 and R-77-0 in Ukraine, but production assets will be depleted in summer 2016.
Dependency eliminated? With what (not having indigenous parts), by whoom and in what cost?
Uktainian version of import substitution is pseudoscience fiction for the next 10 years for sure.

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All Soviet missiles "air-air" developed in Kiev.

 

[gadeshi]

All Soviet missiles "air-air" developed in Kiev.

No, they have just produced in Kiev (with wide cooperation throughout SU), but developed in Moscow (Zvezda-Strela, Vimpel and Raduga DBs).

 

[Akim]

120 pieces in Ukraine air strikes.

I can not say the exact number. Only this year in operation be return 35 aircrafts (not air striker, and transport aircraft, reconnaissance and helicopters).

No, they have just produced in Kiev (with wide cooperation throughout SU), but developed in Moscow (Zvezda-Strela, Vimpel and Raduga DBs).

I do not see of principle purpose to prove. Have it your way. You better?

 

[Akim]

Ukraine has:
1 - 36 Su-27P (6 combat-ready),
2 - 24 MiG-29 9-13 and 12 9-12 and 9-51 (UB) - 8 combat ready,
3 - 36 Su-25 (6-8 combat ready),
4 - 24 Su24M (4 combat ready) and 8 Su-24MR reconaicense + Su-24MP jammers (none combat ready),
5 - about 48 L-39C (36 in service, non-combat).

Ukraine cannot produce or even deeply repair aircraft engines anymore - turbine blades, wheels and combustion chambers production facilities has left in Lugansk
L-15 license builds were planned in 2011-2013 but got abandoned due to technological sequences and cooperation chains breakage after maidan (90% of cooperation were with Russia).
And of course, Ukraine have no mony for any aircraft building projects and will not have them for next 10-15 years to come at least.

You see? I'm not a pilot, and asked the experts. You yourself think.
Боєготові літаки Повітряних сил ЗС України
http://mil.in.ua/forum/viewtopic.php?f=121&t=5847

 

[amoy]

China continues to depend on Ukrainian aero engines
Reuben F Johnson, Zaporozhye - IHS Jane's Defence Weekly
10 December 2015

The AVIC/GTE Minshan engine on display at the 2012 Air Show China exposition in Zhuhai. Note the oversized FADEC control unit. Source: R Johnson

Recent discussions with Ukrainian technicians indicate that China's aero-engine industry continues to depend on Ukrainian technology almost as much as it does on Russian propulsion systems.

Impressions of the state of China's aero-engine programmes among staff of the Ivchenko-Progress design bureau in Zaporozhye, southeastern Ukraine, are that Chinese efforts remain stymied by technological bottlenecks, despite public announcements and displays of "indigenous" engine designs.

In November 2012 the Gas Turbine Establishment (GTE) of China's state-owned Aviation Industry Corporation of China (AVIC) displayed its Minshan engine design at the Zhuhai-based Air Show China. AVIC and China Aerotechnology Import-Export Corporation (CATIC) officials held a press briefing in which they declared that this engine would be used in later models of the Hongdu Aviation L-15 jet trainer. Currently the aircraft is powered by a non-afterburning version of the AI-222-25 jet engine designed at the Ivchenko bureau and produced at the Motor Sich plant in Zaporozhye.

The combined enterprises of the Ivchenko-Progress design bureau represent one of the largest surviving aero-engine enterprises from the Soviet period. Ivchenko officials have told IHS Jane's that due to several factors, including the advantages of being co-located, "these two companies represent what might be the only Soviet-era enterprise capable of designing and building a jet engine from scratch in a more or less standalone capacity".

The officials point out that comparable Russian enterprises, such as the Salyut plant in Moscow, are today only able to contemplate development of a next-generation engine in co-operation with other aero-engine enterprises. In the case of the Russian plan for the development of a fifth-generation fighter engine, Salyut has entered into a co-operative alliance with its main adversary: the Saturn-Lyulka production association. The new engine would replace the Saturn bureau's 117S engine that is currently installed in both the Sukhoi Su-35 and the T-50 Perspective Frontline Fighter (PFI) demonstrator aircraft.

 

[gadeshi]

China continues to depend on Ukrainian aero engines
Reuben F Johnson, Zaporozhye - IHS Jane's Defence Weekly
10 December 2015

The AVIC/GTE Minshan engine on display at the 2012 Air Show China exposition in Zhuhai. Note the oversized FADEC control unit. Source: R Johnson

Recent discussions with Ukrainian technicians indicate that China's aero-engine industry continues to depend on Ukrainian technology almost as much as it does on Russian propulsion systems.

Impressions of the state of China's aero-engine programmes among staff of the Ivchenko-Progress design bureau in Zaporozhye, southeastern Ukraine, are that Chinese efforts remain stymied by technological bottlenecks, despite public announcements and displays of "indigenous" engine designs.

In November 2012 the Gas Turbine Establishment (GTE) of China's state-owned Aviation Industry Corporation of China (AVIC) displayed its Minshan engine design at the Zhuhai-based Air Show China. AVIC and China Aerotechnology Import-Export Corporation (CATIC) officials held a press briefing in which they declared that this engine would be used in later models of the Hongdu Aviation L-15 jet trainer. Currently the aircraft is powered by a non-afterburning version of the AI-222-25 jet engine designed at the Ivchenko bureau and produced at the Motor Sich plant in Zaporozhye.

The combined enterprises of the Ivchenko-Progress design bureau represent one of the largest surviving aero-engine enterprises from the Soviet period. Ivchenko officials have told IHS Jane's that due to several factors, including the advantages of being co-located, "these two companies represent what might be the only Soviet-era enterprise capable of designing and building a jet engine from scratch in a more or less standalone capacity".

The officials point out that comparable Russian enterprises, such as the Salyut plant in Moscow, are today only able to contemplate development of a next-generation engine in co-operation with other aero-engine enterprises. In the case of the Russian plan for the development of a fifth-generation fighter engine, Salyut has entered into a co-operative alliance with its main adversary: the Saturn-Lyulka production association. The new engine would replace the Saturn bureau's 117S engine that is currently installed in both the Sukhoi Su-35 and the T-50 Perspective Frontline Fighter (PFI) demonstrator aircraft.

This is fantastic and completely outdated bullshit. Ukrainian engine building industry is no longer exist after maidan and Donbass civil war (it has depended on Russian companies cooperation and turbin wheels and blades remained in Lughansk, which is not under Ukrainian control and jurisdiction).

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[garg_bharat]

Ukraine only excels in building castles in the air. This will continue.

The Ukrainian soldier is the cannon fodder in empire's war against Russia. The so called Maidan protagonists are actually traitors who have sided with the real enemy of Ukrainian people. The empire is giving generous loans so that Ukrainians are indebted beyond hope and then can be exploited as empire wishes.

There is no real improvement in Ukraine's economy. Ukraine makes nothing that the West needs.

 

[Akim]

This is fantastic and completely outdated bullshit. Ukrainian engine building industry is no longer exist after maidan and Donbass civil war (it has depended on Russian companies cooperation and turbin wheels and blades remained in Lughansk, which is not under Ukrainian control and jurisdiction).

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Well, when you're your poison choke? This machine-building factory is located in Snezhnoe. All occupied enterprises found a replacement. "Electrotyazhmash" who is in your city.

 

[Kshatriya87]

Now Ukraine has:
L-39 - trainer aircraft
Su-25 - attack aircraft
Su-24 - front bomber
MiG-29 - frontline fighter
Su-27 - fighter-interceptor
The exact number can not say because I do not know him. More than one hundred but less than two hundred.

Last 4 are all Russian. Irony. Bought aircrafts from Russia. Didn't even use them against Russia. Lost a chunk of land to Russia.

 

[gadeshi]

Well, when you're your poison choke? This machine-building factory is located in Snezhnoe. All occupied enterprises found a replacement. "Electrotyazhmash" who is in your city.

Do those enterprises do high heat resistance parts like turbine blades and wheels?
Have Progress ever head 4 Gen engines technologies?
Both answers are NO.

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[Akim]

Do those enterprises do high heat resistance parts like turbine blades and wheels?
Have Progress ever head 4 Gen engines technologies?
Both answers are NO.

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There are patterns,there are drawings, there is technology. Of course, it's expensive,but not critical.The plant"Turboatom" some how cope.
In Zaporozhye not panicking, and are developing new engines for the new helicopter, cruise missiles (which will be produced in Kharkov) and strike UAV.

 

[gadeshi]

There are patterns,there are drawings, there is technology. Of course, it's expensive,but not critical.The plant"Turboatom" some how cope.
In Zaporozhye not panicking, and are developing new engines for the new helicopter, cruise missiles (which will be produced in Kharkov) and strike UAV.

You are ignorant and very uneducated in technology field.
Heat resistance parameters demanded for even Gen 4 engines (intermetallides production and single-crystal parts growing from them) are absolutly critical. If you don't have it, you are not the sufficient engine producer.

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[gadeshi]

All Soviet missiles "air-air" developed in Kiev.

No.
They were produced in Kiyev, but developed by Vimpel, Raduga and Zvezda-Strela DBs in Moscow and Piter.

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[Akim]

You are ignorant and very uneducated in technology field.
Heat resistance parameters demanded for even Gen 4 engines (intermetallides production and single-crystal parts growing from them) are absolutly critical. If you don't have it, you are not the sufficient engine producer.

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Yes. Monocrystal were grown for the needs of military enterprises, the plant No. 100 in Lugansk. This is what happens now Vinnytsia and Kamianets-Podilskyi. Panic make only the enemies of Ukraine. Ukrainian military enterprises are adding capacity.

 

[gadeshi]

Yes. Monocrystal were grown for the needs of military enterprises, the plant No. 100 in Lugansk. This is what happens now Vinnytsia and Kamianets-Podilskyi. Panic make only the enemies of Ukraine. Ukrainian military enterprises are adding capacity.

They cannot produce intermetallides (Titanium Aluminide, AlTi for example) and of course cannot do any parts from them. This makes all the engines much inferior from the analogues which had been produced using intermetallides. This is because alloys which are used in 3-gen engines (like Progress ones) cannot create a seamless monocrystal. The best they can is to create track-like crystals with alloy materials tracks one near the others but not in the common crystal grid.
This doesn't allow the engine maintain more than 900K before turbine and achieve more than 1000hrs of full lifetime even in this case. So these engines are not concurrent on the market.

And even the old engines based on old technologies are not available for Ukraine due to all the cooperation with Russia has been broken but Ukraine has no experience, competence and financial resources to conduct import-substitution for them.

 

[Akim]

They cannot produce intermetallides (Titanium Aluminide, AlTi for example) and of course cannot do any parts from them. This makes all the engines much inferior from the analogues which had been produced using intermetallides. This is because alloys which are used in 3-gen engines (like Progress ones) cannot create a seamless monocrystal. The best they can is to create track-like crystals with alloy materials tracks one near the others but not in the common crystal grid.
This doesn't allow the engine maintain more than 900K before turbine and achieve more than 1000hrs of full lifetime even in this case. So these engines are not concurrent on the market.

And even the old engines based on old technologies are not available for Ukraine due to all the cooperation with Russia has been broken but Ukraine has no experience, competence and financial resources to conduct import-substitution for them.

Ukraine continues to fulfill the contract on delivery to China of engines AI-222-25F. Maybe it's old stock components, maybe new ones - we don't know. When was occupied the Crimea, also said that Ukraine will no longer be able to produce tank thermal prrimary. However, the company in Izyum were able to replace the company "Fiolent" and even to expand the range of devices. Wait...

 

[gadeshi]

Ukraine continues to fulfill the contract on delivery to China of engines AI-222-25F. Maybe it's old stock components, maybe new ones - we don't know. When was occupied the Crimea, also said that Ukraine will no longer be able to produce tank thermal prrimary. However, the company in Izyum were able to replace the company "Fiolent" and even to expand the range of devices. Wait...

Izum Metal Plant is not able to produce tank armour It can only work with it (melt and weld it) :biggrin2:
As for intermetallides and monocrystallic technologies, look at the China. They spent almost 25 years and billions of dollars to reproduceit but failed. What to say about nationalistic miserable Ukraine

 

[Akim]

Izum Metal Plant is not able to produce tank armour It can only work with it (melt and weld it) :biggrin2:
As for intermetallides and monocrystallic technologies, look at the China. They spent almost 25 years and billions of dollars to reproduceit but failed. What to say about nationalistic miserable Ukraine

http://www.ipz.com.ua/index.php
Haha. I wasn't talking about armor. Armor for tanks is done by other plants.

 

[gadeshi]

http://www.ipz.com.ua/index.php
Haha. I wasn't talking about armor. Armor for tanks is done by other plants.

Fuck-Up detected
Do not sleave from the topic, @Akim.
Those optical instruments are old as well. There are no indigenous matrices, no bi-spectral capabilities, no electronic vision...
And even though, there are a huge dependence from Russian and Belorussian cooperation (which are gone).

 

[Akim]

Fuck-Up detected
Do not sleave from the topic, @Akim.
Those optical instruments are old as well. There are no indigenous matrices, no bi-spectral capabilities, no electronic vision...
And even though, there are a huge dependence from Russian and Belorussian cooperation (which are gone).

The indigenous matrices is produced in Kiev for "Photoprylad" (Cherkassy). Yes, in the military industry, many Belarusian components. In 2014 Belarus helped to restore the defence potential of Ukraine. Arrived: gasoline, kerosene, diesel engines, truck, optics and electronics.