UK Whinings, a third rate power?

Discussion in 'Europe and Russia' started by Ray, Mar 17, 2012.

  1. Scalieback

    Scalieback Defence Professionals Defence Professionals

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    I'm not ignoring them in the slightest. The response was to the 'willy waving' about Britain being a third rate power and my response being that any country would have to go some way to control 25% of the globe (or is it 30%?) or more.

    Your post isn't relevant ie I'm not denyng it and isn't relevant to my point ie controlling 25% of the land surface of the globe. How we did it is a different debate already going on with the 'I hate Churchill thread'

    Britain is nowhere near what it was, in fact a fraction of it. It's down, but not out imo.

    Then again, how many global trade empires could sustain two world wars?

    Ask Ray what really went on at Arrse. I'd like to see the truth come out about this and why he's gone from an Anglophile to a 'Brit Hater' :)
     
  2. Scalieback

    Scalieback Defence Professionals Defence Professionals

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  3. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

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    ScalieBack, while you are discussing, may I request you, when you get an opportunity, to go to this thread (click) and comment on the SA80? We would like to know as much as we can from a person who has had first hand experience, something that we cannot get off the internet.
     
  4. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

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  5. panduranghari

    panduranghari Senior Member Senior Member

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    Why are we discussing the Brits still? Working with them 10 hours daily tells me that most are normal but they are ignorant as well. There are highly educated cultured people here as we have in India as well. Then there are morons as well.

    They deny atrocities because they are not allowed to teach the truth. Britain is a war mongering country. Many American thinkers have stated so. Why waste our time over these people who in reality loathe everything. They hate the weather, they hate the French, they hate the Germans, they hate the Yanks, they hate the immigrants, they hate the state of the economy....there are many things you can dislike about Brits.

    But they are good as well. As much as I dislike them, I think they are fair in general. However, they need to be re taught their history. There will be a day in the future when Britain will be a nobody. they will read about their atrocities and they will despair.
     
  6. civfanatic

    civfanatic Retired Moderator

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    What do British school history books say about the British Raj and colonialism in general? Are Jallianwalla Bagh and the various famines even mentioned? If so, how are they depicted? I am curious to hear from those who have lived through the British education system.
     
  7. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    where is the QC calieback?

    You chaps are getting away with mudr.

    Are you aware he is an assistant to Mrs Blair, wide mouthed frog as they say in Britain?
     
  8. Armand2REP

    Armand2REP CHINI EXPERT Veteran Member

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    The last time I was there I was talking about the Jinxed HMS Astute. They were in total denial.
     
  9. balai_c

    balai_c Regular Member

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    Unless Royal Navy wants to be bombarded with swarms of brahmos, and swamped by long range su 30 mki, it should stay away. It will only be getting a [email protected]#$ slap.
     
  10. Godless-Kafir

    Godless-Kafir DFI Buddha Senior Member

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    I personally like things to be done in India and exported but that is just me.

    Ya everything has a common root but we cant use Roman numerals that would have never allowed science to grow, we cant write big numbers like hexadecimals etc.,which would have limited our ability at Math or Physics, engineering etc,,

    Anyway i get your point.
     
  11. hit&run

    hit&run Elite Member Elite Member

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    They have sophisticated ways to disclose their sins and sound unapologetic at the same time. Its not a jobs of simple minds to read what they say/teach and what they mean.

    Eton, the Raj and modern India


    By Alastair Lawson
    BBC News

    "While we hold onto India, we are a first rate power. If we lose India, we will decline to a third rate power. This is the value of India." So spoke Lord Curzon, one of 11 viceroys of British India (from 1898 to 1905) who was educated at Eton College, one of England's top private schools.


    [​IMG]
    The Eton display will feature the good, the bad and the ugly

    The school also prides itself on providing five governor-generals who served in India, and three high commissioners after independence.

    Now the strong links between the famous "playing fields of Eton" - attributed as a key reason by the Duke of Wellington for Britain's victory in the Battle of Waterloo - and the Raj will be celebrated at an exhibition at the school, due to be staged in April.

    The aim of the display is to reveal the benefits of the Raj - while exposing its warts as well.

    Benefits of colonialism

    "Eton has had a link with India since the early days of British colonialism to the present," says the event organiser, Andrew Robinson, who teaches history at the school.

    "Those links have been various and have worked both ways. Since the middle 19th century, Indians have come to Eton, and many do so now.

    "India has been the place for the Raj, and for business, and for mission - it remains the case that many Etonians wish to travel there, possibly to put something back so far as the relationship has gone," he said.

    Mr Robinson says that he sometimes encourages his pupils to look upon British rule in India in much the same way that contemporary Britons should look upon Roman rule in most of what is now England and Wales.


    Colonial rule in both cases brought benefits, he argues. In India the positives included a unifying influence in the country, a functioning civil service and a basic infrastructure.

    "I like to think in India I find traces of what some have called the love affair between our two countries, stronger and more durable than the at times violent relationship of rulers and ruled.


    ETONIANS' VIEWS


    In pictures: Young Etonians talk about the Raj
    "In teaching British India at school, it is important not to obscure the warts in the portrait, but we should not perhaps ignore the plus points either, " he says.

    Mr Robinson has been gathering documents, photographs, memorabilia and film footage - from old boys or their families - for next month's display.

    Artefacts and documents rarely before seen in the public domain have been unearthed, including a picture of the Viceroy, Lord Linlithgow, riding his horse in 1939 - the day that he announced that India, like Britain, was at war with Germany.

    Lord Linlithgow did not consult the Indian army before making his announcement.

    Mr Robinson did not have to look too hard though to find exhibits for his display.

    About turn

    The school itself already has a large collection of portraits, sculpted busts and private correspondence from old boys who served in India.

    Eton's connections with India continue to this day
    It all amounts to an intriguing record of Old Etonians who served in India over the centuries.

    Lords Curzon's pith helmet, lent by his family, is in the exhibition, as are artefacts relating to Lord Cornwallis, Governor General of India after defeating the forces of Tipu Sultan in 1792.

    That victory represented a major about turn in Cornwallis's career, because he was blamed by many Britons for losing the Battle of Yorktown in 1781 which led to American independence.

    Also on display are invitations to 4 June parties - traditional school functions - held by Lord Curzon in Simla, the British summer capital.

    In 1901, 14 Old Etonians attended.

    "But it would be misleading to say that Eton provided the people who ran the Raj: we certainly provided our fair share of leaders, but the day-to-day work of administering British India was not done by Old Etonians," Mr Robinson says.

    The exhibition features an interview with Gaj Singh II, Maharajah of Jodhpur, who attended the school in the 1960s.

    There is a memorial at Eton to Princes Victor and Frederick, Maharajah Duleep Singh's two sons who were at Eton in the 1870s.

    The Punjabi maharajah was much admired by Queen Victoria. "Those eyes and those teeth are too beautiful," she is reported to have written.

    Good, bad and ugly

    Photographs have been discovered of Kumara Mangalam, chief of staff of the Indian military in the 1960s.

    There is also correspondence from Peter Lawrence, an Eton teacher who taught at The Doon School, one of the best known private schools in India during the 1930s and 1940s. At that time the school's headmaster was AE Foot, also an Etonian.


    Portrait of Field Marshal Lord Roberts of Kandahar
    Eton has links with many other private schools in India today, such as Mayo College in the state of Rajasthan.

    "The display features the good, the bad and the ugly," says Mr Robinson.

    There is the diary entry from 1858 by a young man who had been at Eton, who wrote: 'What fun it is to shoot mutineers. It's almost like shooting partridges.' "

    There are old photographs of Etonians going on tiger shoots, alongside new photographs of Etonians taking time during their gap years to help in poverty alleviation projects.

    "It is this kind of work, the work of the future - rather than the successes and failures of the past - which most pupils now want to devote their energies," says Mr Robinson.
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     
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  12. balai_c

    balai_c Regular Member

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    ^^ Wow! Quite a find! The comments are quite interesting. It appears Stockholm syndrome has affected quite a number of Indians into a halo of admiration for their former oppressors. Really very disturbing.


    Of course there are many good posts as well. One post that stood out would be:

     
  13. LurkerBaba

    LurkerBaba Staff Administrator

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    x-posting from http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/...nger-naval-power-fleet-strength-depleted.html


    Diamond Jubilee: The Queen no longer rules the waves - Telegraph
     
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  14. The Messiah

    The Messiah Bow Before Me! Elite Member

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    Did anyone see the loyal british "subjects" bowing to the queen today ? :facepalm:
     
  15. Armand2REP

    Armand2REP CHINI EXPERT Veteran Member

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    Don't they do that every jubilee? It is the least they can do for getting another trivial national holiday.
     
  16. Godless-Kafir

    Godless-Kafir DFI Buddha Senior Member

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    Dont take all these silly man made GLORY seriously. Britian has already gone into the history books and soon it will be out of memory, how long will we remember GREAT Britian? Another 50,000 years? LMAO... All these conquerors will be conquered by time.
     
  17. Armand2REP

    Armand2REP CHINI EXPERT Veteran Member

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    Will it still be great when Scotland leaves it?
     
  18. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

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    Sharing some hilarious comments:

    [HR][/HR]

    lordlondon
    Yesterday 06:02 PM
    Three Wicked Witches are dancing around a cauldron of evil, casting a spell for the destruction of Britain: Their names are
    Treason, Corruption and Socialism.

    Behold how the erstwhile Third World nations, such as India, Brazil, China, etc., grow stronger and richer, while Britain becomes weaker and more indebted day by day.

    Of course, even though Britain is drowning in debt, we still send "foreign aid" to such nations.

    Who can explain it?

    [HR][/HR]

    Apache12
    Yesterday 05:06 PM
    But they can still find billions to hand over to Brussels every year! And more billions to waste on foreign aid to places like India. Who have the own their own space programme, nuclear weapons system and a navy that is larger than ours! And if Blair and Mandelson had their way we would be in the Euro now and truly stuffed. Something about "led by donkeys" comes to mind!

    [HR][/HR]

    Excellent sense of humour, I say!

    Darth
    Yesterday 04:31 PM
    Admiral Doenitz was reputed to have kept a painting of the sea in his office.

    When asked about it, he reportedly said, that is the picture of the fleet (all U-Boats) on parade.

    The equivalent of U-Boats for Germany in World War II for UK today is unmanned platforms.

    Why wasn't a fly / drive / cruise by of unmanned, autonomous or not, vehicles arranged for HM to review?

    [HR][/HR]

    Now, few of these Brits made some rude comments about Americans, and here's an American hitting back:
    Skipdallas1
    Yesterday 04:25 PM
    Yes, Americans are all uncouth ignorant barbarians, devoid of culture and class. We were however willing to pull your backside out of the flames in two world wars. And today, we are taking the lead that Great Britain has dropped in the last hundred years in world-wide naval power. This not only benefits the USA, but all of the Western Democracies as well. And BTW, George Bush was a deplorable President, and person. He was just a figurehead President, devoid of any leadership skills of his own, and rather limited in intelligence.
    I for one am interested in the Royals only in their historical context.

    [HR][/HR]

    westcheshireman
    Yesterday 12:51 PM
    The navies of Brazil, Russia, India and China, are growing. The number of ships is not necessarily the be all and end all. It's the type of vessel, firepower and the training of the crews on board. Having said that can't see the Brazilian navy being up to much.

    [HR][/HR]

    Rare and reasonable:
     
  19. Dovah

    Dovah Untermensch Moderator

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    :rofl: :rofl:
     
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