UK Whinings, a third rate power?

Discussion in 'Europe and Russia' started by Ray, Mar 17, 2012.

  1. Oracle

    Oracle New Member

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    IMHO, I don't know.

    I am not in ARRSE, so can't comment on it. I have read some posts on the fly. But I don't and won't tag Britain as racist, as I had not had any such treatment. Being called a Paki sometimes,I didn't mind. Those folks probably hated Pakis, and most from the sub continent have the same skin tone.

    The only way I see it is to talk about it and while doing so understand that none is infallible while we discuss the past and present, for that would help build or burn the people to people relations of the future. So while Indians discuss Churchill, the other party should have an open mind about their war hero. And while our poverty is talked about, we should be open to ideas on how to eradicate it. And ignore the doucebags.
     
  2. Bangalorean

    Bangalorean Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    I agree that Britain is not a racist country in general. But I am surprised that you were called a Paki "sometimes". I cannot believe that people have called you a 'Paki' on your face. And I am even more surprised that you didn't mind.

    It is not acceptable to call an Indian a "Paki" - that is the reason for the existence of the other thread, about the propensity of the Brit media to lump everyone as "Asians". The Brit media is partly the culprit for failing to teach their people the difference between and Indian and a Paki.
     
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  3. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    I second that!

    This forum is not a Circus as some forums we have seen! ;)

    Fair play, democracy and justice prevails!
     
  4. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    Musing of Chariman?

    I rather have them as Stray Thought, like our PM Indira Gandhi.

    A seat in a toothless organisation like the UN with a toothless grin since nothing can come out that is constructive..
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2012
  5. Godless-Kafir

    Godless-Kafir DFI Buddha Senior Member

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    I agree challanger is one if the best tanks in the world, i was responding to the commie who keeps bugging about India being nothing. However the challenger went against Iraqi tanks which where not modernized more over they rolled with USA as pack. India on the other hand has 5000MBTs and 1000 are brand new T-90s and 500 will be Arjuns of various marks and the remaining T-72s will be modernized with commander sights, gunner sights with IR, data links etc.


    Yes, British language is part of the Indo-european family and descends from Germanic Anglo-saxsons, probably long ago Indians, Central asians, Europeans all lived in one family before they parted ways. The R-haplogroup shares the same language which has mutated over time. For example star (English), str- (Sanskrit), tara (Hindi-Urdu), stjärna (Swedish) sterk (Kurdish).

    I speak 5 indian languages, the only time i spoke english today was when i said bye to a guest and now at night on the net i post here. Other wise it was all Indian dialects through out the day. The world wont end if we stoped english but it may be in serious difficulty if we stoped useing numerals.
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2012
  6. Tianshan

    Tianshan Regular Member

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    maybe their politicians are leading them astray.

    all i know is that people who are secure in their power don't need to brag about it.

    the "old world powers" generally don't need to brag, with the exception perhaps of the usa.

    china and india are big braggarts recently. but in actual reality there is still a very long way to go before we can start to catch up with any of the old powers in comprehensive national power. that is the reality, that some people here cannot see.
     
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  7. civfanatic

    civfanatic Retired Moderator

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    In what way does the U.K. have more "comprehensive national power" (whatever that means) than China or India?
     
  8. Tianshan

    Tianshan Regular Member

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    in terms of pure hard power, both their nominal gdp and defence budgets are way higher than india's. they have power projection, they are fighting wars all over the world, something which neither china or india has shown the ability to do.

    soft power is where they shine though, surpassing both china and india combined.

    in terms of soft power, they (along with america) have a monopoly on most of the english-language media in the world, as well as massive cultural influence and diplomatic influence in the world. give me a list of all the "major international news" outlets, and they are all either american or british.

    jingoism is quite funny at times, but at some point you have to be realistic.
     
  9. Tianshan

    Tianshan Regular Member

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    ok sure, overseas chinese will watch chinese movies, and overseas indians will watch indian movies.

    but EVERYONE else watches american and british movies.

    even something as silly as "harry potter" or something less silly like "james bond" are currently the two biggest grossing movie series in the entire world.
     
  10. civfanatic

    civfanatic Retired Moderator

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    You should know that purchasing power is a more accurate means of comparing total economic output between countries than nominal GDP. The relative cost of factors of production should be taken into account.

    By the way, how does electricity consumption and production compare between India and the U.K.? How about steel production and consumption? There goes your "hard power".

    Indeed, Britain has a higher defence budget than India (on paper anyway). God knows what they spend it on, and how India has procured so much equipment while Britain doesn't even have an aircraft carrier.

    Indian forces have been deployed overseas numerous times as part of U.N. peacekeeping missions; we have a good record in Africa. It's not much different than what the British are doing in Afghanistan.



    Even though the soft power associated with English is almost totally controlled by America today, I will agree with you that British soft power is far greater than that of India and China. In fact, the legacy of the Empire is the only thing that keeps Britain somewhat relevant today.


    Indeed.
     
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  11. Tianshan

    Tianshan Regular Member

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    no, it really is not.

    according to the imf, nominal gdp should always be used when comparing internationally, between two different nations.

    yes the power itself lies more in american hands.

    however it is still anglo-american influence. they work in tandem.
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2012
  12. trackwhack

    trackwhack Tihar Jail Banned

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    Reality Check my friend. Evrything you have mentioned in terms of power projection and fighting wars have resulted in the following state of affairs.

    1) Government Debt
    Britain : 80% of GDP
    China : 35% of GDP
    India : 55% of GDP

    2) Household Debt
    Britain : 96% of GDP
    China : 28% of GDP
    India : 9% of GDP

    3) Bank Debt
    Britain : 220% of GDP
    China : 30% of GDP
    India : 10% of GDP

    4) Corporate Debt
    Britain : 105% of GDP
    China : 103% of GDP
    India : 47% of GDP


    Approximate National debt

    Britain : 510% of GDP
    China : 190% of GDP
    India : 125% of GDP.


    Now lets look at debt servicing. The interest as offered by the treasury of the united states (safest debt) is about 3%. Lets assume that all of UK's debts are as safe as US treasury bonds. at 3% interest, currently the UK is paying 15% of its annual GDP in servicing the interests on debts. Not serving the principal. Only the interest.

    If we look at total debt by country, the UK is THE MOST indebted country in the world as a percentage of GDP.

    Comprehensive power, my ass!
     
  13. Tianshan

    Tianshan Regular Member

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    official imf figures show china's debt to gdp at around 30%. so your "approximate" thing above is way off.

    america has the biggest debt in the world as an actual nominal figure, but no one questions their power. not even their biggest rivals.
     
  14. trackwhack

    trackwhack Tihar Jail Banned

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    hahaha. nice one.

    A loaf of bread in the UK sells for a pound and the same sells in India for 20 pence. Against India's national productivity 20 cents gets added, against Britains national productivity 1 pound gets added. Sure nominal GDP is the accurate measure.
     
  15. civfanatic

    civfanatic Retired Moderator

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    Nominal GDP is used when talking about international trade and cross-border transactions, which are based on market exchange rates.

    We are not talking about international trade, but the national wealth (i.e. total economic output) of India compared to the U.K.
     
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  16. trackwhack

    trackwhack Tihar Jail Banned

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    Official IMF figure showing 30% is china's government debt, which as I have stated above is 35% of GDP not 30%. go back to school. Try to learn what I have detailed above and then come back with less retarded arguments.
     
  17. Tianshan

    Tianshan Regular Member

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    retarded haha yes, i know this is how you try to win arguments.

    you haven't actually replied to anything i have said, apart from personal attacks.

    ok, you are anonymous internet poster yet you somehow have more knowledge than the imf.

    good, no problem.
     
  18. trackwhack

    trackwhack Tihar Jail Banned

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    Here you go. This is from a British media outlet. The data is from Mckinsey. I am sure your sources are more accurate.

    Daily chart: The debtors' merry-go-round | The Economist
     
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  19. Tianshan

    Tianshan Regular Member

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    hard power - nominal gdp, defence spending, power projection

    soft power - cultural influence, anglo-american control over international news media, the ability to pull in immigrants

    like i said, even something silly like "harry potter" has broken all international records for biggest selling movie series in the world. their influence is everywhere, but where is china's influence in britain apart from chinese restaurants?

    time to be realistic. comprehensive national power is a sum of all things.
     
  20. trackwhack

    trackwhack Tihar Jail Banned

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    stop giving gyan. respond to the data presented to you.

    time to be realistic. there is a reason why britain made such a big fuss about the eurofighter deal. britain is broke. they are at best a regional military power.
     

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