Tupolev-95 Bear

Discussion in 'Military Aviation' started by gadeshi, Sep 28, 2015.

  1. gadeshi

    gadeshi Senior Member Senior Member

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    Great photos, though...
    Tu-4 was worlds first real anti-shipping missiles carrier, worlds first strategic missiles carrier and worlds first dedicated ESM/ECM aircraft for group ECM support.
    So, it was not a blind copy.
    It resembles me Chinese projects based on Soviet types, where chinese engineers achieved great and very intresting, unusual results.
     
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  2. gadeshi

    gadeshi Senior Member Senior Member

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    Only if you will give me serious sources.
     
  3. Adioz

    Adioz शक्तिः दुर्दम्येच्छाशक्त्याः आगच्छति Senior Member

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    By western style, stealthy, advanced plane,
    do you mean the PAK-DA?
    [​IMG]
    Well, I doubt Russia will ever get funds to even try something so ambitious.

    Remember, if they dub a newly revamped Tu-160 as the PAK-DA, it actually means they did not develop an actual PAK-DA.
     
  4. gadeshi

    gadeshi Senior Member Senior Member

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    Russia has funds for everything, it just needs to find the right sources :)
    Tu-160 will not be a PAK DA, it will help to revive the existing large Tu-160 production facility and make Tupolev DB possible to get electronical design and production environment and unified process similar to those Sukhoi has. It will be large and necessary preparation for PAK DA to come.
    The second reason of Tu-160 production renewance is strategic reconisance mistake about US LRSB programme. It was firstly believed that LRSB will be a subsonic, extreamly stealthy long endurable weapons platform. So PAK DA was considered the same. But 2 months ago USMOD has published the final LRSB requirements, where the subject plane is moderate stealthy supersonic platdorm with supercruise capabilities.
    So, Russian MOD has desided to renew Tu-160 as it already is LRSB but withour supercruise and less stealthy.
    A new supercruisable stealth PAK DA has been moved to 2023.

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  5. Adioz

    Adioz शक्तिः दुर्दम्येच्छाशक्त्याः आगच्छति Senior Member

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    Is the first flight of the aircraft slated to be in 2023? I guess its a little too hopeful.
    That aside, I find it hard to believe that the Russians plan to have three separate strategic bombers in service simultaneously (Tu-95, Tu-160 and PAK-DA). What I find more reasonable is the PAK-DA as a replacement for Tu-95. But Tu-95 is expected to serve out to 2040s and so is its American counterpart (B-52). Moreover, PAK-DA will be much more expensive to maintain in the numbers as high as Tu-95. Also, there is no plan from the American side to field such a bomber as the PAK-DA
     
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  6. gadeshi

    gadeshi Senior Member Senior Member

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    However, it's true.
    PAK DA will replace Tu-95 and Tu-22M3 (in LR part of its missions). So, there will be Tu-160 and PAK DA in the lines. Then PAK DA will cast out Tu-160 (beyound 2050, I guess).
     
  7. Adioz

    Adioz शक्तिः दुर्दम्येच्छाशक्त्याः आगच्छति Senior Member

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    Er.....did you mean cast out the Tu-95? Because PAK-DA's role does not match Tu-160's.
    Whereas Tu-160 is supersonic and about to go VLO.
     
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  8. jouni

    jouni Senior Member Senior Member

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    Thanks to the efficiency of the Anti-Aircraft Artillery and the deception measures that were employed, damage was limited. Only 5% of the bombs fell within the city, and some of these fell in uninhabited park areas causing no damage. In the order of 2,000 bombers participated in the three great raids on Helsinki and dropped approximately 2,600 tons of bombs. Of the 146 people who died, six were soldiers; 356 were wounded. 109 buildings were destroyed. 300 were damaged by shrapnel and 111 were set on fire. The Soviets lost 25 aircraft.

    By comparison, Dresden was bombed on the 13th to the 15th of February 1945 by 1,320 bombers, which dropped 3,900 tons of bombs. This force was comparable to the total that attacked Helsinki, but the Dresden raid killed about 25,000 to 35,000 people and the city was almost completely destroyed.

    After the war, the Allied Control Commission led by Soviet GeneralAndrei Zhdanov visited Helsinki. Zhdanov was perplexed by the limited damage the city had sustained. The Soviet leadership thought that they had destroyed the city completely and that it was these bombings that had forced the Finns to the peace table

    http://20thcenturybattles.com/2014/03/30/the-bombing-of-helsinki-in-world-war-ii/
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2015
  9. gadeshi

    gadeshi Senior Member Senior Member

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    You have compated a dick with the smallest finger on the leg :)

    Stalin has forbidden full-scale Helsinki bombing, reasonably decided to reach the goal by psychologic pressure with minimal casualties.

    We are not talking about conventional bombing in this topic. This time we are about nuclear war machines. 5000km ranged high precision Kh-101/102 ALCMs which cary 2MT thetmonuclear warhead each are deadly arguments in any conflict solving negotiations. Carrier platform is less interesting here:)

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  10. jouni

    jouni Senior Member Senior Member

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    You mean Stalin ordered them to miss delaberately? Drop bombs to the sea instead? Ok, there is no limit to the greatness of Stalin then.
     
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  11. gadeshi

    gadeshi Senior Member Senior Member

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    No. There were no full scale bombing operations like american bombing on Germany. Americans had missed not less then Russians in Finland, but they had effective numbers:)

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  12. jouni

    jouni Senior Member Senior Member

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    The tonnage dropped to Helsinki was comparable to tonnage dropped to Dresden by Brits, Brits didnt miss...

    Ok, lets agree to disagree to not to derail more.
     
  13. apple

    apple Regular Member

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    He shouldn't be allowed to post bald-faced lies and get off unchallenged. Although, you were veering off topic.

    Over 2,000 was more than an effective number. They were just massively incompetent.

    Not sure which piece of Cold War era propanganda this forum's Russophiles have swallowed so uncritically. But seriously, how can you be so stupid?

    How is 2,000 not full scale? Russia never had that many bombers and the 900 they sent out their last raid could well have been every bomber they had. How is that noit full scale?

    You actually believe everything any Russian ever says don't you? You entirely believe the PAK DA will be flying in 2023, don't you?

    I, sincerely, really hope you are only 14, as you're level of naivety is not good in an adult.
     
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  14. Yumdoot

    Yumdoot Regular Member

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    Anyhow the color mixing, the Mcdonald's round edged 'M', the jeans clad guy and those cars don't look too damaged after the Russian air raids.

    I am very convinced of the Finnish courage and their respect for independence and freedom after seeing all this evidence of how little was damaged comparatively by the Russian raids.

    :bounce:
     
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  15. gadeshi

    gadeshi Senior Member Senior Member

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    You haven't posted any document links, just new cold war propaganda targeted to raise finnish people hubris and self-assessment.
    Post any documents, not oppinions, then we will talk about it!
    But not in this topic, of course.

    About PAK DA: I haven't seen any Russian official claims that had not become true, even with timeshifts.
    PAK DA will not be an exception.
     
  16. jouni

    jouni Senior Member Senior Member

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    Interesting view that NATO prints propaganda for Finns to boost up our hubris....I like you, you are pro Russian in a cool and intelligent way.
     
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  17. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

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    @jouni, I have not seen @gadeshi go into the Finnish Military thread and troll there. It is therefore not appropriate of you to not reciprocate. It is inane to derail the thread and then claim you don't want to derail the thread.

    This thread is for Tupolev-95 only. All subsequent off-topic posts will be purged, whether you feel silenced or not.
     
  18. sabari

    sabari Regular Member

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    This air craft are not fit for war .because they are not menuvarable ,noise,easy target for air defense from anti air gun to missile .that have limited application in navy and no future in air force
     
  19. Yumdoot

    Yumdoot Regular Member

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    Tu-95 in most cases would not even have to go out of the airspace of Russia, to bomb the living daylights out of Russian adversaries. Or perhaps Tu-95 will have to intrude, a little, for a little while, under cover of a few Sukhois with 11/12 AAMs each. That is more cover fire of highly accurate kind than what their adversaries would ever be able to stand up to. And under that overwhelming AAM superiority the Tu-95 would launch cruise missiles that have like ranges like 600km-2500km with upto 200kt 400 kg warheads. You can tie that up with our own efforts. Some years back there was talk of our scientists trying to make a 400 kgf engine. Well what can we say - a Kh55SM uses a 400kgf engine :p.

    Tu-95 is just there way of fighting considering their limitations. They believe in crushing victory in near abroad and undeniable capacity in far abroad.

    And they have been rather successful in their ways:
    1) have held back nearly the whole world for several decades now to protect themselves
    2) even while helping deal with genocidal maniacs around the world and
    3) keeping colonizers busy for more than 50 years. I tell you this last act is something we Hindus will be a great beneficiary of in future.

    You can make comparison checks with other big 6 countries/groups, areawise, (Russia, China, India, US, Eurozone NATO, GCC) and compare that against their respective defence budget sizes. For example we have 45 billion USD defence budget while Russians have 80+ but the Russians are protecting an airspace that is at least 5 times larger. Then see who is doing the best job of protecting their country and culture from among these 6 big countries/groups.

    IIRC, Russians even have a law saying their weaponry will not be imported. It simply has to be Russian. Imagine how would India look if we could achieve something like that in India. We are still tottering but they have it already because they have never salivated for useless fluff and kept refining whatever they had.
     
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  20. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

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    @Yumdoot, even I have heard that in Russia there is such a law, but I have never seen a reference. Google search yields nothing.

    One thing that I like about Russia is that their armed forces actually support their MIC, which encourages their weapons development. On top of that, almost all weapons systems being domestically made, they save a lot of money, so compared to India, obviously their return to investment ratio is very high.
     
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