Today China is what US was

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Martian

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So this means that NASA is a fool who is who is still managing that costly equipment and they are not able to make any advances in there earth based observatories in so much time.
[mod] You have seen previous post now please mend your ways and don't edit and moderated message please [/mod]
 

prahladh

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I'm saying that China will not launch a Hubble-type telescope because advanced adaptive optics allow China to achieve space-based telescope results with advanced Earth-based telescopes.

The point is that China possesses Earth-based Hubble-quality telescope capability and advanced adaptive optics technology that is equal to the United States.

The US has spaced-based Hubble. China has equal astronomical capability using advanced Earth-based adaptive optics.
Earth based telescopes have limited range. say 5000 light years, Since some radiation is absorbed by our atmosphere. Hence space based telescopes, which increases the range, that can be observed by many folds. I would like to know what you meant by "Earth-based Hubble-quality telescope".
 

Armand2REP

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How does one go about comparing China to the US? You can't really. China is still an imitater, not a leader. Their strategic technology base is a clone of late 1970s USSR with a mix of commercial OTS for flavour. The US may have fallen from grace economically and will crash when they default, but they will still be technologically advanced enough to keep the edge over China. PRC has alot of reforms to make in their scientific and business sector before they can start to dominate over the West.
 

badguy2000

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How does one go about comparing China to the US? You can't really. China is still an imitater, not a leader. Their strategic technology base is a clone of late 1970s USSR with a mix of commercial OTS for flavour. The US may have fallen from grace economically and will crash when they default, but they will still be technologically advanced enough to keep the edge over China. PRC has alot of reforms to make in their scientific and business sector before they can start to dominate over the West.
economy is the base ,while others including R&D are just the uppger buildings on the base.

when economy as the base collapses, all upper buildings on the base also collapse.
 

Armand2REP

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economy is the base ,while others including R&D are just the uppger buildings on the base.

when economy as the base collapses, all upper buildings on the base also collapse.

And you think the Chinese economic base is sound? Do tell.
 

Flint

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China is clearly making fast progress in many fields, but some of the claims here are pretty ridiculous.
 

Martian

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Earth based telescopes have limited range. say 5000 light years, Since some radiation is absorbed by our atmosphere. Hence space based telescopes, which increases the range, that can be observed by many folds. I would like to know what you meant by "Earth-based Hubble-quality telescope".
Here is the definitive word on adaptive optics by the experts at the famous U.S. Mount Wilson Observatory and America's most popular website Space.com on space-related issues.

Mount Wilson Observatory

"What is Adaptive Optics?
Light from a distant star or galaxy is distorted as it passes through the turbulent earth's atmosphere, preventing a telescope on the surface of the earth from forming sharp images. Instruments using a new method called adaptive optics can eliminate the blurring effect of the atmosphere. Thus images formed with the 100-inch telescope using adaptive optics are as sharp as those from NASA's Hubble Space Telescope. This is the most revolutionary technical development in astronomy since Galileo first used an astronomical telescope in 1609."

SPACE.com -- Adaptive Optics Allow Ground-Based Scopes to Compete With Hubble For Clarity

"Adaptive Optics Allow Ground-Based Scopes to Compete With Hubble For Clarity
By Greg Clark
Staff Writer
posted: 12:40 pm ET
06 October 1999

One of the greatest limitations of ground-based astronomy is the fact that Earth's atmosphere ever-so-slightly distorts light traveling through it. When viewing large objects or regions of the sky, the distortion is not tremendously troublesome, but as astronomers try to view smaller and smaller areas of the heavens, the distortion becomes more and more noticeable.

This is the problem that created the demand for a space-based telescope that could rise above the turbulent atmosphere to capture clean, clear pictures of faraway celestial objects.

But developments made during the past decade in the field of adaptive optics are enabling astronomers to make corrections for the blurring effects of the atmosphere to get images that are competitive in clarity with the Hubble Space Telescope (HST).

"Image quality, which was once the sole realm of the HST is now being challenged by adaptive optics on telescopes on the ground," said Buzz Graves, an astronomer at the University of Hawaii and an expert in adaptive optics."

Here are information on the reputation of the famed U.S. Mount Wilson Observatory:

Mount Wilson Observatory

" Founded in December 1904 by George Ellery Hale, Mount Wilson Observatory would quickly rise to dominate astronomy worldwide. It was successively home to the world's two largest telescopes as well as the most powerful facilities in existence for studying the sun. Those pioneering instruments and the brilliant scientists who used them revolutionized astronomy through such discoveries as:

* relocating the sun far from the center of the Milky Way galaxy
* the existence of countless galaxies and an enormous Universe
* the magnetic field of the sun and its key role in solar activity
* the recession of the galaxies implying the Big Bang
* populations of stars of various ages

In the twenty-first century, the Observatory hosts several of the most technologically advanced facilities in the world for studying astronomical objects with unprecedented resolution and clarity. The 100-inch Hooker telescope remains in active scientific service, and the solar towers are daily collecting data representing the world's longest continuous record of the sun."
 

Martian

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How does one go about comparing China to the US? You can't really. China is still an imitater, not a leader. Their strategic technology base is a clone of late 1970s USSR with a mix of commercial OTS for flavour. The US may have fallen from grace economically and will crash when they default, but they will still be technologically advanced enough to keep the edge over China. PRC has alot of reforms to make in their scientific and business sector before they can start to dominate over the West.
Why can't people update their brains? It is now year 2009; almost 2010. Some people's mindset is stuck in the 1970s. The world has changed. I will cut and paste some of my previous posts from other threads and address this 1970s technology nonsense.

Why do you insist on making the preposterous claim that China is behind every major industrialized country? I have already shown you China's spacewalk and ASAT weaponry. In the high-tech field of space technology, that proves that China is arguably ahead of both Japan and Europe. When China lands on the moon in 2020 to 2025, China will indisputably show the world that she has accomplished a feat that Russia could not accomplish in decades of spaceflight. A moon landing will prove that China has matched US accomplishments in manned spaceflight.

You seem to place more emphasis on military technology than civilian technology. Let's discuss a prominent example. Comparable to the Arleigh Burke class, China has deployed two Chinese Aegis destroyers with advanced active phased array radar (i.e. AESA). As far as I know, Russians are incapable of building an advanced Aegis-class destroyer.

SIGNAL Magazine - Reading Loud and Clear

"The People’s Liberation Army Navy recently introduced two domestically designed and built guided missile destroyers that include Aegis-type radars and related technologies. Known as Project 052C guided missile destroyers (DDGs), the ships feature Aegis-type phased array panels, vertical launch systems, long-range missiles and considerable command and control. These capabilities were not found on any previous Chinese-built DDGs.

The design of a lead ship with prototype Aegis radar, combat direction links and a vertical launch system (VLS) into a small 6,600-ton hull is an ambitious development. The smallest U.S. Navy Aegis ship with VLS is the 8,400-ton Arleigh Burke-class DDG 51. Russia had its Aegis-equivalent Sky Watch system only on 30,000-ton aircraft carriers. The nine years of sea test development prior to the U.S. Navy’s first installing Aegis on the warship USS Ticonderoga CG 47 indicates the complexity and the engineering effort necessary to build a successful Aegis system. The fact that the Soviet Union gave up on an Aegis system after years of frustrating problems on two warships also shows the extreme difficulties."

The only two countries in the world that build Aegis-class warships are US Lockheed Martin and China (see Type 052C (Luyang-II Class) Missile Destroyer - SinoDefence.com). The Japanese, Koreans, Spaniards, and Norwegian Aegis-class systems are purchased from the US. Japan Buys Another Aegis System In the following video, the second surface ship that you see is the Chinese Aegis-class ship.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jrzAsyZETpM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvpPknmHGAM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30mMVq2nEnQ
 

Martian

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Let's look at a second prominent example of high-tech military technology.

Submarine-launched solid-fuel intercontinental ballistic missiles are indeed very complex, but they are not prone to failures in countries that are real superpowers.

Navy has successful Trident II D5 launch - UPI.com

"The two Lockheed Martin-built Trident II D5 Fleet Ballistic Missiles were successfully launched from the Navy's USS West Virginia as part of a regular safety and reliability check on the strategic weapons technology.

Lockheed Martin says since 1989 the Trident II D5 has had 129 consecutive successful test flights."

DONG FENG - EAST WIND/JULANG - GREAT WAVE

"The Julang 2 missile was successfully tested by the PLA Navy in Jan. 2001 and a successful test of the undersea launch system was conducted in October 2001. This system is planned for installation on the Type 94 SLBM submarine at Huludao."

In the superpower race, you can't keep making excuses for repeated Bulava failures. Today's Russia is a shadow of the former Soviet Union. The Soviet Union was a formidable and frightening superpower. In contrast, today's Russia provides the world with pretty fireworks.

Here's the first one that occurred over Norway. For those of you, like me, who prefer videos to reading long articles.

YouTube- UFO-like lights over Norway 'not linked' to failed Russian missile

Another 'UFO' from Russia - Cosmic Log - msnbc.com

""The first rocket UFO was so much fun, the Russians fired off another one as an encore!" Oberg wrote."

Here's the second fireworks display over Siberia.

YouTube - ??? ??? ?????? ???????
 

Martian

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I know that I'm in danger of beating a dead horse. I will try to make this my final post on this issue.

List of countries by military expenditures - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The United States has the world's largest military budget at $607 billion dollars.
China has the world's second largest military budget at $84.9 billion dollars.

The United States is worried about China because China's military budget keeps growing by double-digits year after year.

U.S. Says China's Defense Spending Is Rising Fast - washingtonpost.com

2009: China’s Military Budget Continues Double-Digit Growth


The United States military believes that "China is the only near-peer."

"“For the first time ever, we're really taking into account the location” of would-be adversaries, said retired Vice Adm. Timothy LaFleur of San Diego, former commander of Naval Surface Forces and now an executive with the defense consulting company Booz Allen Hamilton. 'Clearly, China is the only near-peer threat that's out there.'" See China's military rebirth prompts U.S. response - Military - SignOnSanDiego.com
 

mattster

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Since we've already discussed China's perfect manned spaceflight record, I thought you might find it interesting to see an exciting video that covers China's planned unmanned flights for 2012 and 2017 to the moon, which will lay the groundwork for China's moon landing.

Dear Mr. Martian.....you have been living too long on Mars it seems.

DFI MODs, can someone please tell this freaking clown Mr. Martian that the Chinese basically bought a Russian orbiter for the manned space program. It was a 100% carbon copy and many people claim it was just bought from the Russians.

So please stop posting this crap about how great China space program is.
Do some freaking research. Go look a picture of the Chinese orbiter and then look at the Soyuz Russian orbiter and you will be amazed by the similarities.

The only thing that the Chinamen changed was the bloody paint. Even the Chinese posters here know that, which is why the Chinese manned space prgram go so little attention everywhere in the world when it happened.

Stop posting every stupid "cut & paste" achievement about China here on this forum even if the thread is about China.
 

Martian

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China High Speed Rail

"Traveling at an average speed of 217 miles an hour, the Chinese have once again upped the ante when it comes to cleaner and more efficient transportation alternatives. In fact, China now expects to build 42 high-speed rail lines by 2012. Will they pull off such a lofty goal in such a short amount of time? Hard to say. But I certainly wouldn't bet against them at this point.
...
According to the US Department of Transportation, high-speed rail consumes nearly 10 times less fuel than cars and six times less than planes.

And the Bureau of Transportation Statistics has indicated that while passenger air travel in the US gets about 45 passenger-miles per gallon of fuel - high-speed rail systems in Japan and Europe deliver efficiency equivalents of about 300 to 500 passenger miles per gallon.
...
There's plenty of data that supports the economic, social and national security benefits of high-speed rail. But despite the Obama administration announcing a new vision for high-speed rail (with a few billion in tow), we continue the debate - pushing us further and further behind the rest of the modern world."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DLI1wjzS4ro
 

Martian

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Dear Mr. Martian.....you have been living too long on Mars it seems.

DFI MODs, can someone please tell this freaking clown Mr. Martian that the Chinese basically bought a Russian orbiter for the manned space program. It was a 100% carbon copy and many people claim it was just bought from the Russians.

So please stop posting this crap about how great China space program is.
Do some freaking research. Go look a picture of the Chinese orbiter and then look at the Soyuz Russian orbiter and you will be amazed by the similarities.

The only thing that the Chinamen changed was the bloody paint. Even the Chinese posters here know that, which is why the Chinese manned space prgram go so little attention everywhere in the world when it happened.

Stop posting every stupid "cut & paste" achievement about China here on this forum even if the thread is about China.
single - The Jamestown Foundation[tt_news]=31138

"The spacecraft itself incorporated over 110 improvements over Shenzhou V. The CZ-2F, the launch vehicle, also underwent 75 technical improvements. The overall safety and reliability of the spacecraft was enhanced so much that the launch was broadcast live on television—a testament to confidence (China Daily, October 12)."
 

Daredevil

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[mod]Instead of an objective discussion on China's progress and its comparison to that of what US was, Martian had derailed and disrupted the thread to no end with his inane statements and comparisons. There is nothing more fruitful to discuss on this thread. Thread locked.[/mod]
 
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