Tipu Sultan and The Hindu Ring

ITBP

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@Peter you are right. Marathas plundered not only Bengal but also Rajputs, Jats too. That's why they did not help Marathas during 3rd war of Panipat.

To know Tipu Sultan well, one must read Mahibul Hassan's book on Tipu.

1) Tipu was a great fighter, India back then existed as a civilization not as nation. Among numerous India's great emperors, Tipu was last representative of them.

2) Tipu was more interested in Art of peace than in war.

3) Tipu attacked Travancore because Travancore's defence line went through Tipu's kingdom, Travancore gave political shelter to those people who were plotting against Tipu.

3) Tipu was religiously tolerant, within 100 mts of his palace in Shrirangapatnam there was Hindu temple, he never caused any trouble. Tipu always respected Hindu priests.

4) Tipu punished Kannada Christians because they were actively helping British. Even when those people were in captivity still then Tipu sought Christian priests from Portuguese Goa so that those people can practice their religion. So the cause was political.

5) Tipu forcefully converted many right, but is it really possible to change one's belief only by force? I dont think so. To those all who criticizes Tipu for forced conversion, must and should keep these in their mind those are A) you cant change 1's faith by force, similarly Tipu too could not change those forcefully converted people's faith B) Additionally contemporary Hinduism was rigid, in those days if you ever leave Hinduism(no matter for what reason) that meant you had no other way to come back to Hinduism even if you have wish, once you get impure meant you are impure forever, religious re-conversion to bring non-Hindus to Hinduism in Hinduism started much later by Arya Samaj. So as we can see those forcefully converted people had no way to come back to Hinduism.

6) I am truly surprised by some Indian's comments, they are preferring British instead of Tipu.
 
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Ajesh

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Troll Alert.:whistle:... This ITBP.. He wants this to be a never ending Saga like the Aryan Invasion.
 

abhi_the _gr8_maratha

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@ITBP , marathas wasn't fighting for self but for mongol and india and to save another loot of delhi..... Marathas lost cause they fought hungry but that war did a significant change. No threat was there after by land towards delhi.....
.
rajput fought against marathas for mongol for more than 50 years yet there wasn't significant success for them except to Mirzaraje Jayshingrao though later shivaji maharaj escaped from agra and next year mirzaraje died. other rajput were total failure against marathas
.
the loss against mirzaraje was because of continuous war for last 11 years made marathas tired and mongol was having fresh army though marathas gave brave fight
.
so there is no reason of blaming marathas cause rajput to fought against marathas from 1664 to 1707
 
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SilentKiller

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Well India is Full of Kings.
For Me Below are few f the kings who did few good for india like making us the one, or bringing us under 1 rule or good genuine fight against Foreign rule and tried to consider india as their nation and its people their responsibilities. Religion is not part of my considerations but the work, i might be wrong on ranking but anyway these r my views, urs too r respects. :namaste:

1. Chandra Gupta Maurya
2. Akbar
3. Shivaji
4. Ashoka
5. Tipu Sultan
6. Ranjit singh
7. Pritviraj Chouhan

Rana Sanga and few more could be on list but their tasks were less and they did quite a lot mistakes, and as historical facts Rana Sanga himself invited babur to invade and defeat lodhi but when himself got the opportunity tried to remove babur but was backstabbed by Silhadi a Hindu rajput chief.
Rana Pratap was only concerned with chittoor.
 

Virendra

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@ITBP , marathas wasn't fighting for self but for mongol and india and to save another loot of delhi
Everybody was fighting for themselves and their own agendas. It is false to think there was any holier than thou.
The whole medieval era is full of Kingdoms fighting Kingdoms. Don't juxtapose nationalist theme to a Kingdom's expansion spree.
Their actions betray such an attempt.

..... Marathas lost cause they fought hungry but that war did a significant change.
That is the most trivial reason I've ever heard. Soldiers fight battles in the heat of adrenaline where everything else gets blacked out, neither hunger nor thirst comes in the way in that do or die hour. Maratha cavalry made a very furious charge in that battle. Empty stomachs cannot be blamed for a battle that lasted a total of 5-6 hours.

No threat was there after by land towards delhi.....
It is firstly because Jats and Sikhs gained power in the vaccum of 25 yrs after Panipat. Secondly it was never easy to unite the warring Afghan tribes for a proper campaign in India. Only a few could manage that.

rajput fought against marathas for mongol for more than 50 years yet there wasn't significant success for them except to Mirzaraje Jayshingrao
And so the Marathas pounded on Rajputs at the first chance, indiscriminately destroying crops and raiding even in the middle of a drought, instead of targetting Mughals. What did they get out of their incursions, wasting time and resources in Rajputana when they had to be fighting Mughals. They got enmity of native powers. That came back to bite them in Panipat.
There wasn't a significant challenge to Mughals before Shivaji, who was forced to sign a peace treaty, surrendring forts. Besides, the Marathas used their terrain really well in conjunction with apt maneuvers, tactics to drain & bog down the heavily dressed up Imperial army. Jai Singh was a better Statesman, smarter General and had reached a strategic understanding with Shivaji.

though later shivaji maharaj escaped from agra and next year mirzaraje died.
How did Shivaji manage to escape from Agra. Do you believe that he did it all by himself in the middle of Agra, surrounded by Mughals?
Who promised Shivaji safety should he come to Agra for negotiations.
Who signed a bond with the bigot Aurangzeb to keep Shivaji alive when Aurangzeb was determined to have his head after that scene in the court.
How do you think Shivaji managed to reach Shaista Khan, when Jaswant Singh was camped at the same place with an Army of 10,000 men?

other rajput were total failure against marathas
How were Shaista Khan and Jaswant Singh camping in Pune then?
After Shivaji, there is gap where Marathas were scattered and disoriented, until Peshwas organized them and things again started to look up. And even then, Mughals were already waning badly and Rajputs were on their own, declining due to changes in warfare technologies and trade routes (drying revenues). Legendary leaders from Rajputana like Jai Singh, Jaswant Singh and Abhay Singh had passed away.

the loss against mirzaraje was because of continuous war for last 11 years made marathas tired and mongol was having fresh army though marathas gave brave fight
Wrong. Imperial armies were equally and constantly involved in campaigns against Deccani Sultanates before. Nobody had been idling out, sleeping in their barracks. Shivaji was beaten fair and square, which is why he was ready to negotiate.

so there is no reason of blaming marathas cause rajput to fought against marathas from 1664 to 1707
There is no blaming, atleast not from me. The medieval powers did what they thought was best for them in their scenarios. It is tough to justfully analyze all that from hindsight today. Except a few personalities (across various geogrpahies/people), all powers acted on ambition or self defense.
Those were very different times, one cannot expect them to act like subjects of 21st century Republic of India. Such expectations would always lead us to interpret history in the wrong way.

Regards,
Virendra
 
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Virendra

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Well India is Full of Kings.
For Me Below are few f the kings who did few good for india like making us the one, or bringing us under 1 rule or good genuine fight against Foreign rule and tried to consider india as their nation and its people their responsibilities. Religion is not part of my considerations but the work, i might be wrong on ranking but anyway these r my views, urs too r respects. :namaste:

1. Chandra Gupta Maurya
2. Akbar
3. Shivaji
4. Ashoka
5. Tipu Sultan
6. Ranjit singh
7. Pritviraj Chouhan

Rana Sanga and few more could be on list but their tasks were less and they did quite a lot mistakes, and as historical facts Rana Sanga himself invited babur to invade and defeat lodhi but when himself got the opportunity tried to remove babur but was backstabbed by Silhadi a Hindu rajput chief.
Rana Pratap was only concerned with chittoor.
I have a lot more respect for Sanga, a man who renounced his throne because of loss of limb (such high standards of Raj-Dharma); than PrithviRaj Chauhan who revelled in drinks, dancers and fantasized of an apsara/princess when danger was knocking loud and clear.

As far as the invite to Babur goes, the latter didn't need an invite from Sanga or anyone to set foot in India. The borders weren't protected with electric fences at that time. It was Babur's own decision to conquer India as strategic depth, because he was wary of his cousins and enemies (one & the same thing) in Central Asia.
There is no corroboration of such a letter in the history of Mewar. Yet if such a letter was sent, there is nothing wrong in Sanga trying to have the foreign Islamic forces fight each other out and let the Rajputs fill the vaccum later on.

Regards,
Virendra
 

Ajesh

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Well India is Full of Kings.
For Me Below are few f the kings who did few good for india like making us the one, or bringing us under 1 rule or good genuine fight against Foreign rule and tried to consider india as their nation and its people their responsibilities. Religion is not part of my considerations but the work, i might be wrong on ranking but anyway these r my views, urs too r respects. :namaste:

1. Chandra Gupta Maurya
2. Akbar
3. Shivaji
4. Ashoka
5. Tipu Sultan
6. Ranjit singh
7. Pritviraj Chouhan

Rana Sanga and few more could be on list but their tasks were less and they did quite a lot mistakes, and as historical facts Rana Sanga himself invited babur to invade and defeat lodhi but when himself got the opportunity tried to remove babur but was backstabbed by Silhadi a Hindu rajput chief.
Rana Pratap was only concerned with chittoor.
Akbar,Tipu Sultan were quite Ruthless, Akbar was regularly involved in Barbaric Killings, albeit a lot less than the other Nomadic Mughals like Babar. Akbar Behaded Hemu and paraded his Head though Old Delhi.

Praising Akbar,Tipu Sultan is Yet ANother Case of our so called "Secular" Education System.
 

ITBP

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@ITBP , marathas wasn't fighting for self but for mongol and india and to save another loot of delhi..... Marathas lost cause they fought hungry but that war did a significant change. No threat was there after by land towards delhi.....
That is Mughal. Marathas were hungry because Rajputs and Jats did nor provide them food, as they were dissatisfied with Marathas Chauth and Sardeshmukhi. Marathas were also outnumbered in Panipat by 4:3,, had Marathas not tortured Rajputs or Jats, their expeditionary force would help Marathas, enabling them to outnumber Abdali's army.
.
rajput fought against marathas for mongol for more than 50 years yet there wasn't significant success for them except to Mirzaraje Jayshingrao though later shivaji maharaj escaped from agra and next year mirzaraje died. other rajput were total failure against marathas
.
Rajputs did not fight much against Marathas, apart from Jay Shingha's expedition. Infact during Aurongjeb's Maratha war, Rajputs were fighting against Mughals in Rajputana.

the loss against mirzaraje was because of continuous war for last 11 years made marathas tired and mongol was having fresh army though marathas gave brave fight
True and Many Maratha leaders betrayed Shivaji Maharaj also.

so there is no reason of blaming marathas cause rajput to fought against marathas from 1664 to 1707
Explained before.

How ever I personally pity Marathi, Rajput Muslim and Christians. They are insult to Maratha and Rajput gallantry.
 
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Ajesh

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Even I cant believe the so Called Rajput Muslims, Either Your be a Rajput and fight for the right or be a Muslim. There are no two ways about it. They are pure Cowards for me.
 

abhi_the _gr8_maratha

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1st, let me tell history of sometime back of the treaty..
.
1955- battle against more of jawli , shivaji won it.
.
in 1958 -battle against afjal khan , won it and later got in danger when he was at panhala fort and was surrounded by adilshaha army- knight jauhar. One more time he escaped smartly...
.
then came shahiste khan he did great damage to the kingdom again shivaji smartly . If you think their was help from someone of mongol camp then how shivaji escaped from the huge army? Definitely anyone will get huge reward if he catches a king than a small bribe to enter in a fort
.
then loot of surat which was equal tiresome.
and then fresh army of mirzaraje came.
again..... Mirzaraje only kept him alive though in a custody, no help of him in escaping. Shivaji escaped in boxes of sweets.
rajput was just use to come and sit under fort..... That's why a fort which have the most inferior armour among maratha forts that is fort of Ramsej was upbeaten 6 years when 40000 mongol army was surrounding 600 maratha
 

abhi_the _gr8_maratha

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again rajput was sitting under kondhana for 2 years and Marathas won kondhana/sinhgad in just one night (tanaji malusare)
.
it is sitting......
.
after 1980 sambhaji fought against portuguese, mongol, siddi, british, a south king(not remembering name) and yet just 2-3 fort was lost till death of sambhaji from1980. It was death of sambhaji which demoralize maratha though they recovered once more cause of santaji- dhanaji.
.
again do you even know what hunger means? That too for 2-3 days
.
wrong peshwas actually was dull. They were true reason of downfall of maratha.peshwa killed Angre whose navy was strangest in india at time. Peshwa defeated nagpurkar bhonsle which later resulted into rise of british in bengal.
.
it was peshwa who sent stupid vishwasrao as chief in panipat war.
.
Shejawlka who is greatest historian about marathas says that " from 1708 to 1761 , none knows what peshwas was doing in north india cause south india was still unsafe".
@Virendra I hope this two answer will solve your q
 
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abhi_the _gr8_maratha

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if you ask me, I will select tughlaq as best muslim king of india. He was a great philosopher. His decision of copper currency was iconic but people printed fake currency....
.
he was a secular king which made muslim people angry and they wrote every bad thing about him and historian copied this without analysing
 

SilentKiller

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Akbar,Tipu Sultan were quite Ruthless, Akbar was regularly involved in Barbaric Killings, albeit a lot less than the other Nomadic Mughals like Babar. Akbar Behaded Hemu and paraded his Head though Old Delhi.

Praising Akbar,Tipu Sultan is Yet ANother Case of our so called "Secular" Education System.
Hahah, so what my list...
your comment proved your hatred towards a specific community, which is wrong, don't know why ur so angry on this thing?
even if a person is muslim and is proven indian or even worked for india's unity he is my man.
Akbar was different and better than other mughal kings, so he is on list, its history please consult foreign books too if u don't agree with education/history in india, which is way better than those of few close by nations. :)

Also don't forget, they were just kings and kings can never be that good..

don't forget many Muslim indian leaders, scientists etc..
 
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SilentKiller

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I have a lot more respect for Sanga, a man who renounced his throne because of loss of limb (such high standards of Raj-Dharma); than PrithviRaj Chauhan who revelled in drinks, dancers and fantasized of an apsara/princess when danger was knocking loud and clear.

As far as the invite to Babur goes, the latter didn't need an invite from Sanga or anyone to set foot in India. The borders weren't protected with electric fences at that time. It was Babur's own decision to conquer India as strategic depth, because he was wary of his cousins and enemies (one & the same thing) in Central Asia.
There is no corroboration of such a letter in the history of Mewar. Yet if such a letter was sent, there is nothing wrong in Sanga trying to have the foreign Islamic forces fight each other out and let the Rajputs fill the vaccum later on.

Regards,
Virendra
Well sir, thanks but its written in records of how some hindu kings, afghan nobles etc went and invited babur, as before them mughals were known as just invaders not conquerors, it was no wrong on part of snaga, it was good move that's why i mentioned him in my list. but he miscalculated babur's strength and attacked earlier than he should have. Prithviraj got rank he did managed to get quite a lot of kings together and for once was able to stop invaders but lacked true futuristic thinking and again was backstabbed by one of his own.
 
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SilentKiller

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@abhi_the _gr8_maratha Marathas were fine warriors like Rajputs. But both lacked political foresight. :sad:
Truly agree that, even british acknowledged that like maratha were finest soldiers quite same and modern as most european army but they lacked good generals, anglo maratha wars were lost because of them not soldiers.
same way mughals acknowledged rajput valor.
 
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Virendra

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Well sir, thanks but its written in records of how some hindu kings, afghan nobles etc went and invited babur
Might be true, I don't contest that. My point was that Baburnama is the only source mentioning such a letter coming from India while the Indian sources of history are silent on it.
as before them mughals were known as just invaders not conquerors, it was no wrong on part of snaga, it was good move that's why i mentioned him in my list. but he miscalculated babur's strength and attacked earlier than he should have.
I don't know of any plans from Babur to return right after the victory against Lodis. Perhaps that is what Sanga was expecting. When Babur didn't return to Ferghana, Sanga realized that he had a new problem at hand and a clash thus became unavoidable.
Prithviraj got rank he did managed to get quite a lot of kings together and for once was able to stop invaders but lacked true futuristic thinking and again was backstabbed by one of his own.
Got Kings together? Please elaborate which Kings these are. Ever since he came to throne, PRC was leading campaigns into other States, not forging alliances. He agreed to Ministerial advice to "not interfere" when his neighbouring Chalukyas were heading into battle with Ghori.
So from where did these numerous Kings come up and get together on his call?
In Tarain-I he had his generals (Skanda, Udayaraja and Bhuvanik Malla etc) and their forces on his side, could match the Turks on cavalry, in frontal charge and won. There were no Kings on his side.
In Tarain=II he didn't have his generals and their forces. There were only Govindraj and PRC himself with their forces. That explains why PRC tried to negotiate with Ghori (for buying time), so that atleast one of his generals could join him.
again was backstabbed by one of his own.
By whom?

Regards,
Virendra
 

Ajesh

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Maulaana Abul Kalam Azaad,APJ Abdul Kalam, AR Rahman, Even Salman Khan to some extend, can be the Idol of the Muslims. They are as Indian Nationalist as much as they are Muslims.

Akbar and Tipu were Religious Bigots.

Hahah, so what my list...
your comment proved your hatred towards a specific community, which is wrong, don't know why ur so angry on this thing?
even if a person is muslim and is proven indian or even worked for india's unity he is my man.
Akbar was different and better than other mughal kings, so he is on list, its history please consult foreign books too if u don't agree with education/history in india, which is way better than those of few close by nations. :)

Also don't forget, they were just kings and kings can never be that good..

don't forget many Muslim indian leaders, scientists etc..
 

Ajesh

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Thats Because we cannot Kick them Off Directly, We need to discipline them, make them show the good way etc. After all they are mostly converted Hindus.

But i agree Most of the Miscreants are Wahabi Sunni Muslims, They are still under the impression that they are Akbar,Babar and so on. They need to be kicked Out Directly to Saudi Arabia or wherever the ---- they have come From.

Why we(hindus) Defensive why can't they identify the problem in so called MINORITY COMMUNITY
Almost 99% Mafia members, Riot starters(we saw even on Micro MINORITY Jains&Sikhs :sad:), Bombings& killing of innocent women&Kids and shouting my god is great
 

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