Time of India: 1962 war tried to wake up Nehru with heavy punch: China daily

[rockdog]

http://articles.timesofindia.indiat...rder-india-china-border-talks-chinese-academy

BEIJING: Ahead of the India-China border talks, an official Chinese daily on Thursday said both countries need to learn a lesson from the 1962 war that even though Beijing may like peace, it will firmly defend "its" land.

Using strong words, the write-up in ruling Communist Party's Global Times' web edition said the 1962 war was to "wake up" former PM Jawaharlal Nehru from the influence of US and former Soviet Union by giving him a "heavy punch" .

It also claimed the real target for Chinese leader Mao Zedong's ire at that time was Washington and Moscow . "Fifty years ago, when China faced several difficulties both domestically and internationally, Nehru administration , encouraged by the US and the Soviets, brought more trouble to the Sino-Indian border between 1959 and 1962", the article titled 'China won, but never wanted, Sino-Indian war' said. Written by Hong Yuan, deputy secretary-general of Centre of World Politics at the Chinese Academy of Social Sciences, the article focus on China's victory and Beijing's "peaceful intentions" in declaring ceasefire despite the success and the "reluctance" with which China fought it.

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i personally agree the idea of this article, since after the war, PLA almost return all the captured weapons and other matrials.

And during the bombay terror attack, i can even saw some Indin soldiers or police were using some WWII level rifle like Lee Enfield, and i hope some of them would came from the PLA returned. Can this being considered part of contribution to India' anti terror campign from China?

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The return list of captured matrials from AI:

http://www.tianya.cn/publicforum/Content/worldlook/1/45916.shtml

M 4 helicopter Soviet-made one (degraded)
British manufacturing otter conveyor 1 (severe damage)
US-made M3A3 tanks, two (missing parts)
Car 117 units (50 units intact, 67 units missing parts)
British-made 88mm cannon 3 (2 missing parts, a badly damaged)
British-made 88mm howitzer 18 (14 missing parts, four seriously damaged)
British-made 75mm mountain artillery 6 (2 missing parts, four seriously damaged)
British manufacturing 106.7mm mortar 7 (missing parts)
British-made 81mm mortars, 54 (15 intact, 36 missing parts, three badly damaged)
British-made 51mm mortars, 75 (58 intact, 17 missing parts)
Heavy machine guns, 22 (7 intact, 13 missing parts, two serious damage)
American-made 7.62mm tank machine guns 6 (missing parts)
British-made 7.7mm light machine guns, 261 (223 in good condition, 26 missing parts, 12 seriously damaged)
British-made 7.7mm light machine guns preparatory barrel 208 (all in good condition)
Canada system of 9mm submachine 552 (488 in good condition, missing parts 41, 23 severely damaged)
American-made 7.62mm semi-automatic rifle 30 (all in good condition)
British-made 7.7mm rifles and 2,105 branch (1,750 support intact, 306 missing parts, and 49 severely damaged)
Pistol 57 (40 intact, 12 missing parts, four serious damage)
79 Flare Gun (71 intact, four missing parts, four seriously damaged)
American-made 90mm rocket launchers and 37 (26 intact, the 8 missing parts, three badly damaged)
Grenade launchers, grenade launchers, 12 (11 in good condition, a lack of spare parts)
Shells 22,400 more than fat intact (all)
More than bullets 2,139,000 rounds (all intact)
British-made 7.7mm light machine gun magazine 2,181 (all in good condition)
Canadian-9mm submachine gun magazine 950 (all in good condition)
137 rounds of 90mm bazooka shells (all in good condition)
Grenades 19,357 (all in good condition)
Flares, 500 rounds (all in good condition)
1,895 gold mines (all in good condition)
American manufacturing air compressor 4 (3 intact, and a lack of spare parts)
To bulldozers 7 (6 units intact, missing parts)
British-made road roller 1 (missing parts)
Generator 4 (a lack of spare parts, three badly damaged)
Oil machine 2 (all in good condition)
Radio 6 (a good, serious damage to five)
Walkie-talkies, 10 (8 intact, two serious damage)
Intact phone 7 (1, 6 severe damage)
Battery box 10 (all in good condition)
Telescope 30 (all in good condition)
Parachute 400 (all in good condition)
Barbed wire more than 280 bundle (all intact)
Garden spade, pickaxe 350 (all in good condition)
757 barrels (497 intact, 260 damaged)
Wire and 5,600 m (partially intact)
Other military equipment (including helmet, parachute rope, observation, communication, engineering equipment such as a)
Military coats, blankets, 1,973 (all in good condition)
Military uniforms, 2,760 pieces (2,410 pieces intact, 350 pieces worn)
Mosquito nets, blankets, sheets, 720 pieces (all intact).

 

[sayareakd]

soon we will see old Chinese map with whole of Asia as Chines land, then you can imagine what will happen next.

 

[rockdog]

Those captured Lee Enfiled rifle and Bren machine guns before returned to Indian Army:

And the sames weapons AI or Indian Policy still using:

Would Part of them came from the PLA's returned batch after 1962 war? If so, it's quite symbolic that China really didn't want to humiliate India, but just a wake up punch...

 

[satish007]

Indian should thanks for the reminder, they wook up immediatly and work together and becoming stronger and stronger, nuke armed and ...

 

[rockdog]

Indian should thanks for the reminder, they wook up immediatly and work together and becoming stronger and stronger, nuke armed and ...

There almost no chance for arm race with China, just wasting billions of dollars to buy foreign weapons and not benefit your local industry at all.

 

[Ray]

One has to learn to copy to have a local industry.

Arms industry is not pinching a baby's bottom as China is well aware.

The issue is - is the local industry ready to copy?

 

[rockdog]

One has to learn to copy to have a local industry.

Arms industry is not pinching a baby's bottom as China is well aware.

The issue is - is the local industry ready to copy?

I think obviously India's industry not ready, but can only spent $$ to buy from abroad and let your own industry and people suffered.

Is a fighter plane more important than a lavatory; a toilet more important than a battle tank? This was the question recently raised by a remark made by Union rural development minister Jairam Ramesh and aimed at defence minister A K Antony. At a public function, Ramesh jokingly said that for the cost of a single Rafale fighter aircraft - of which the defence ministry is in process of acquiring 126, with a total price tag of $20 billion - could pay for 1,000 village panchayats across India to get bio-digester toilets.

Fighters vs toilets - Times Of India

That's the bad result those purchasing money can't stay in India's local industry chance...

 

[bose]

There almost no chance for arm race with China, just wasting billions of dollars to buy foreign weapons and not benefit your local industry at all.

The border conflict on 1962 with China is a very important part of the modern day history of India... It has reminded us Indian of the necessacity of a modern army, airforce and navy... India learned some important lessons from that war... We will nor forget nor forgive ...

The arms race with China is REAL and kICKING... Indian industry will benifit greatly from this big initiative for build & use arms in India... There is no escaping from arms import as we do not have the technology to build modern day arms... Millions of $$ are poured into the defense R&D and I see in next 10 years India will indiginious most of the arms required for the defense forces...

 

[rockdog]

The border conflict on 1962 with China is a very important part of the modern day history of India... It has reminded us Indian of the necessacity of a modern army, airforce and navy... India learned some important lessons from that war... We will nor forget nor forgive ...

The arms race with China is REAL and kICKING... Indian industry will benifit greatly from this big initiative for build & use arms in India... There is no escaping from arms import as we do not have the technology to build modern day arms... Millions of $$ are poured into the defense R&D and I see in next 10 years India will indiginious most of the arms required for the defense forces...

In China's military forum, there is a very famous joke or regulation: each time, if you see a piece of news about India's defense industry, the reader need to firstly count how many "is going to", "will", "plan to", "set to" among the article, if there are more than 10, then the news won't be very worthy to read. Since for last 10 yrs, the Chinese military fans read too many those words from LCA, Arjun, MCA, AC...

A sample here:
印度取消曾欲与俄罗斯联合研制的T-50双座型 下调订购单座型总数-空军版-超级大本营军事论坛-最具影响力军事论坛 -

The article is about the translation from Indian media talking about FGFA program, and some member counted there are 10+ "is going to", "will", "plan to", "set to", and then ask other members this article is not quite read-able.

 

[bose]

In China's military forum, there is a very famous joke or regulation: each time, if you see a piece of news about India's defense industry, the reader need to firstly count how many "is going to", "will", "plan to", "set to" among the article, if there are more than 10, then the news won't be very worthy to read. Since for last 10 yrs, the Chinese military fans read too many those words from LCA, Arjun, MCA, AC...

A sample here:
印度取消曾欲与俄罗斯联合研制的T-50双座型 下调订购单座型总数-空军版-超级大本营军事论坛-最具影响力军事论坛 -

The article is about the translation from Indian media talking about FGFA program, and some member counted there are 10+ "is going to", "will", "plan to", "set to", and then ask other members this article is not quite read-able.

Great! don't your chineese media make fun of your long effort for a credible "Will Make Jet Engine" for 10 years or so ? still failed to make one even trying your well establish effort for cheating & stealing from others?

 

[Ray]

I think obviously India's industry not ready, but can only spent $$ to buy from abroad and let your own industry and people suffered.



Fighters vs toilets - Times Of India

That's the bad result those purchasing money can't stay in India's local industry chance...

No, it is not that the industry is not ready.

It is just that there is the concern that China has infiltrated even the US defence industry and so it would be not surprising if China did the same.

Of course, we do have the $ to spend and so that should not really worry others or should it.

Toilets are important that fighters. Jairam Ramesh believes so and so do many Indians.

However, the unholy muck up North is what is making India emphasise on fighters.

In so far as China coming up with an engine, I take it that it is quite hard to copy the same!

 

[bose]

This rockdog is one of the 50 cents army solders... I was expecting a response from him to my last post but this guy did not turn up or ran away just like their solders did in 1962 [same against Vietnam in 70's] when they felt that USA likely intervene for India when they saw the US arms getting into Indan hands... very different to what they had assurance / understanding from USA that they will not intervene in any occation for a China and India conflict...

India should know NEVER TO TRUST CHINEES as they will back stabbers...

 

[roma]

In China's military forum, there is a very famous joke or regulation:
Since for last 10 yrs, the Chinese military fans read too many those words from LCA,, MCA,.

even LCA ( never mind MCA ) is anyday better than your J20 in maneuverability ! ( not to mention your jF 17 pieces of junk that you sold to pak - no !, gave away - to get rid of junk - even you admitted that it's junk and cant sell, so "give" to pak - the whole lot )

 

[rockdog]

I was expecting a response from him to my last post but this guy did not turn up or ran away just like their solders did in 1962 [same against Vietnam in 70's] when they felt that USA likely intervene for India when they saw the US arms getting into Indan hands... very different to what they had assurance / understanding from USA that they will not intervene in any occation for a China and India conflict...

Wel, if this kind of explanation (reason of PLA retreated from battlefield) makes you happy, enjoy it.

Just like you know that China and USA had a face 2 face war 8 yrs ago in Korea, and the result was a draw. I don't think PLA was not that afraid of US army, let alone a newly-crashed-group on Himalaya only with equipment from USA.

India should know NEVER TO TRUST CHINEES as they will back stabbers...

Wel, free to find this excuse to India's defeat if you wish, but i personally think Nehru's stupid "forward policy" and intervention on Tibet affairs during 1954-1959 were big factor to give him a Wake Up Punch.

This rockdog is one of the 50 cents army solders...

Interesting, label me as 50 Cents... if you go personal to me, i just stop talking with you, that's my rule here, sorry. Learn to be civil first!

 

[satish007]

even LCA ( never mind MCA ) is anyday better than your J20 in maneuverability ! ( not to mention your jF 17 pieces of junk that you sold to pak - no !, gave away - to get rid of junk - even you admitted that it's junk and cant sell, so "give" to pak - the whole lot )

Plz do not lose your temper,your low capacity aircraft(LCA) is same as our junk 20,but if we woke together ,may be two wrong make a correct

 

[bose]

Wel, if this kind of explanation (reason of PLA retreated from battlefield) makes you happy, enjoy it. !

There is nothing to enjoy... but hard reality .., China will never attack anyone who is even 1/3 rd of its strenght...

Just like you know that China and USA had a face 2 face war 8 yrs ago in Korea, and the result was a draw. I don't think PLA was not that afraid of US army, let alone a newly-crashed-group on Himalaya only with equipment from USA.

The only country you fear most militarily is USA, and the USA was tilting surely towards India in 1962... if the wars has extended for few more weeks USA will sure going to intervene... your leaders correctly anticipated hence lighting withdrawal from the Indian territories...

Wel, free to find this excuse to India's defeat if you wish, but i personally think Nehru's stupid "forward policy" and intervention on Tibet affairs during 1954-1959 were big factor to give him a Wake Up Punch.

There is no room for any excuse we Indian understand very well what happened in 1962... Indian has learned a lesson from it ... take it from a guy who was not even born then... It is the China who is the main loser, you have lost completely all of the goodwill that had existed for 1000 of years... Now you have created a rival in India who is going to challenge you.

Interesting, label me as 50 Cents... if you go personal to me, i just stop talking with you, that's my rule here, sorry. Learn to be civil first!

Fair enough, I will take back my comments...

 

[sayareakd]

1962 was wake up call for us, so was 1971, that is why we went nuke in 1974.
If any time in future China wants to repeat of 1962, they should then forget the dream of becoming super power. We are capable of doing that, ofcourse we know that China possesses more nuke then us, but superpower dream will be lost for ever.

 

[ice berg]

The common trait of an internet warrior is they like to brag about their nukes everytime there is a conflict.

The notion that India will go nuclear because a border conflict is beyond silly.

Exactly how old are you? Grow up please.

 

[Singh]

^^ how is this juvenile ? It'll be juvenile of China to go in for a border conflict, and expect Indians to be mature about it ? It'll take one rash decision to turn the world upside down.

 

[ice berg]

It is juvenile to assume India will go nuclear because of some border conflict. What is the rational behind that exactly? Did India and Pakistan exchange nukes? if not, then why will India nuke China?

It will be juvenile if either side commit themselves to a border conflict.

There are far more important issues to be solved in both countries.

My last post in this thread.