Tiger or Lion- who is the king of beast?

Who do you think is the King of Beasts?

  • Tiger

    Votes: 45 69.2%
  • Lion

    Votes: 20 30.8%

  • Total voters
    65
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Sword

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Though I agree that Lions are really powerful but I am skeptic towards mane's ability to protect the neck ! since it is mostly used for sexual and show purpose !?
Chauhan, the mane has been debated on many sites, it is not impenetrable, but it offers protection to a degree, which you nor any scientist can disprove to do so because of the factual events that already took place:
http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...te/topic/8913393/1/+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

If a bulls horns, a gun and a grenade couldn't fully by-pass the mane, the tigers fangs would mean little difference plus the link shows the tiger has almost a 100 sources showing his throat being punctured, which means the tiger is more suspect of being bitten at the throat, the ankara incident didnt have a single sourced photo of that specific lion being male...lion, is general for its species, not gender, and the photos of the lions there didnt show any adult male, most likely it was one of the two cubs:

Ankara zoo:

http://www.inankara.com.tr/galeri-37-f-638/ankara-genel/ankara-hayvanat-bahcesi.php#a

Mad indian Actually its a myth that lions are the kings of the jungle.
How is it a myth when over 20 scientific sources, via biology, zoologist, archaeologist, hunters, explorers, ect all have the lion in india well documented:

http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=35950

Even the chinese, vietnamese, indonisians, japanese, indian and more of asia has documents of tigers being defeated by lions in that asiatic lion thread, its almost unanimous compared to your assumption and opinion.

It seems denial and bias is the only thing that you have as a retort. According to martials epigrams, the tiger only won one fight through out the entire roman empires reign, the wikipedia quote comes from a zoo keeper at bronx zoo, not a historian. Speaking of which according to these historians the lion is the one who won in the roman days:
http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=17524&PN=21


Saty Read above male Tiger territory OVERLAP with 3/4 Tigress.Tiger is the Perfect Gentle Man.

TIGER HUNTS by Ambush in Jungles............LIONS PACK(6/7) RUNDOWN the PREY in african grasslands, only weak&old animals can't run and eventually die.:lol:

Bengal avg is 222 kg, African Lion is 180kg.In Tiger Vs Lion fight 3 lions are no match for 1 Bengal tiger.:lol:
According to these sources, the lion is perfect;y capable of killing bull giraffes and some crocodiles alone:
http://www.sciforums.com/threads/african-lion-vs-grizzly-bear.145963/page-2

It seems most who favor the tiger meet a criteria of making up fantasy and roster like weights, you seem to have formulated a conclusion before even understanding the tigers true nature, none of you who'm spoke of the tigers behaviors have any experience with these animals, yet on this site there are biologist who do, and they state the exact opposite of what has been stated by sytr:
http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=17524&PN=23

Its quite sad that mad indian has to use tiger fan altered stuff, like the gir fight (first of all castle films is an american owned company, not british), its the fans titeling the film as gir forest, but theres no further confirmation thats the location, plus, for a person who speaks as if you own a tiger, how did you miss the part tigers stripes are like finger prints:

Try and get things from original sources, not spliced and edited things with no true source...the video you showed of tigers supposedly defeating lions are from everland zoo, the head keeper there Jeong sangjo, as shown in the asiatic lion thread stated for ten years lions dominated there...look at that, theres only about 30 minutes of them fighting and those are spliced taking out the other parts of the video showing the tigers losing as the verdict, 30 minutes, thats a only a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of 10 years, I would take the keepers word for it (who spends all day every day with them) over again other spliced and edited videos. The real videos show sourced and primary documents:



Of course wikipedia is that way, have you read the talk section and discussion edited versions...if one had as much time on there hands to constantly erase the truth, why bother to even try and post documents if its gona keep being erased by non modative authority's, isnt that the true meaning of propaganda, showing only what you want to be known?

Mad indian...I like to see any authority on the subject you can bring to analyze that has empirical evidence of them fighting...if you know what that word means.
 
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Sakal Gharelu Ustad

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Stop writing strawman without knowing what it means. I said one of the reason for the non introduction of lions was tigers and it remains so even now. That's true. I don't claim that was the only reason. Also, I said tigers stopped the penetration of lions to other parts of Asia. That's true . check the geography and the lions distribution. ask yourself why. After all, its not like other parts of Asia din't have the terrain like un central India or the northern plains right?
I read it on a geography website on why lions never spread to Asia , where tigers were listed as the reason.
And why doesn't these tiger reduce the habitat of other cats like leopard etc?? They should also be shunted out by the tiger if that is such a big problem.

Also, since lion live in groups, they would have always hunted down a single tiger. While lions would have been more or less unaffected by tiger. So, this theory makes no sense.
 

Mad Indian

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@Sword


:pound: lions don't exist in SEA or China and Chinese Vietnamese and Indians all have unanimous opinion that lions won against the tigers? What an idiot.


And I posted links from the citation which were From books , Google books . and all you have done is cite various forums. How very authoritative/objective argument of you:lol:


And where did you pull this crap that only once did tiger win vs lion? Are you stupid? The link I posted from Google books has detailed info on how tigers routinely won 1 v 1 against lion
And from whose ass did you come up with this bs that all biologists agree that lions would win v tigers? Most scientists give the 1 vs 1 battle to tigers and not lion, not even the lionophiles.


And finally, again lady , tigers exist and live in jungles. Lion lives in forest and less dense forest covers near plains/grasslands. It's an insult to compare lions with tigers, when tigers have stronger body, have smarter brains and are better lone hunters than lions.


Btw, the scientific consensus among Chinese scientist is that tigers would win hands down due to being smarter (larger brainsize ) and stronger than lions.


Next time, don't quote other forums and claim to have objective points on this issue. It makes you look like an idiot :lol:
 

Mad Indian

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@Sakal Gharelu Ustad. Dude, lions do not migrate in groups. A single male lion is what migrates outside his territory to claim new territory hence it won't be lions migrating outside in droves to fight tigers. It would always be lion vs tiger(males)

And the reason why pathers/leopards are spared by tigers, same reason why rats are spared by humans. Unlike panthers/leopards lions won't be content as living beneath tigers now would they? Lions would chart out their territory and live there which would make their contact and class with tigers inevitable


Anyway, even if that part is not true, it still does not change the fact that tiger is both smarter and stronger of the two. Let's not even get into the fighting postures. Unlike the tiger, the lion cannot use the front two paws simultaneously.
 

Sakal Gharelu Ustad

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@Sakal Gharelu Ustad. Dude, lions do not migrate in groups. A single male lion is what migrates outside his territory to claim new territory hence it won't be lions migrating outside in droves to fight tigers. It would always be lion vs tiger(males)

And the reason why pathers/leopards are spared by tigers, same reason why rats are spared by humans. Unlike panthers/leopards lions won't be content as living beneath tigers now would they? Lions would chart out their territory and live there which would make their contact and class with tigers inevitable


Anyway, even if that part is not true, it still does not change the fact that tiger is both smarter and stronger of the two. Let's not even get into the fighting postures. Unlike the tiger, the lion cannot use the front two paws simultaneously.
A single lion will not go 500km away from his habitat either to face a tiger!! Since, lion is used to living in grassland, it is much unlikely that it would go to dense jungles to begin with. May be there is some weight to your theory but I do not know.

Btw, I don't like lion due to fighting capabilities. I just think lion is cool because he sits like a king and let younglings and females do the job!! Life of a king! And the mane--that's so manly!
 

Sword

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@Sword


:pound: lions don't exist in SEA or China and Chinese Vietnamese and Indians all have unanimous opinion that lions won against the tigers? What an idiot.


And I posted links from the citation which were From books , Google books . and all you have done is cite various forums. How very authoritative/objective argument of you:lol:
Whoa, it would take someone several hours to read all that info, the fact that you replied so hastely shows you dont care for the truth, you just wanna hear your self talk. The forums has each link to its source. But of course you didnt read them...obviously, never said lions were indigenous to japan ect, I stated they have records of them winning via captivity.


And where did you pull this crap that only once did tiger win vs lion? Are you stupid? The link I posted from Google books has detailed info on how tigers routinely won 1 v 1 against lion
And from whose ass did you come up with this bs that all biologists agree that lions would win v tigers? Most scientists give the 1 vs 1 battle to tigers and not lion, not even the lionophiles.
You lack alot of substance my friend...yes theres only one occasion of the tiger winning in martials epigram, many books state martial said the tiger always won, this is called hear say, this is called twisting the truth and also called a fabrication, I dont have to take their word for it, I can read his exact excerpt myself and it said this:

"Lambere securi dextram consueta magistri
Tigris ab Hyrcano gloria rara jugo
Steva ferum rabida laceravit dente leonem:
Res nova, non ullis cognita temporibus.
Ausa est tale nihil, svlvis dum vixit in altis,
Postquam inter nos est, plus feritatis habet."

Translated by Anon…

OV THl PimiJO 8H0W8. 18

The rare-seen glory of th' Hyrcanian land,
A tiger, wont to lick his master's hand,
In pieces tore a lion in his rage,
A thing not known before in any age.
He durst not this attempt in forests high:
Beasts among men learn greater cruelty
http://archive.org/stream/epigramsmartial01martgoog/epigramsmartial01martgoog_djvu.txt

Please show us where martial stated the words everytime, always won, never lost ect...he mentions that a tiger killed a lion, not tigress as all the people who re-written it mistook the latin word Tigris (which just means tiger) then changed it to tigress, a english word for female. You need to learn how to comprehend a bit more instead of just saying the tiger is some sort of god, who'm has lost to leapards 1/4th his size, as shown.


And finally, again lady , tigers exist and live in jungles. Lion lives in forest and less dense forest covers near plains/grasslands. It's an insult to compare lions with tigers, when tigers have stronger body, have smarter brains and are better lone hunters than lions.


Btw, the scientific consensus among Chinese scientist is that tigers would win hands down due to being smarter (larger brainsize ) and stronger than lions.


Next time, don't quote other forums and claim to have objective points on this issue. It makes you look like an idiot :lol:
Cool bro, if thats the truth to you, then let it be so, it isnt gona be passed on, on any academia refference that shows why a tiger would beat a leopard, for people like you, this debate is of some type of cult, for me, I'm just trying to find out the truth... again, if you do have anything of importance to the sub-verdict of this discussion, please provide a ---single source--- of imperical evidence.
https://www.google.com/#q=imperical+evidence

 
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Sword

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Stop writing strawman without knowing what it means. I said one of the reason for the non introduction of lions was tigers and it remains so even now. That's true. I don't claim that was the only reason. Also, I said tigers stopped the penetration of lions to other parts of Asia. That's true . check the geography and the lions distribution. ask yourself why. After all, its not like other parts of Asia din't have the terrain like un central India or the northern plains right?
I read it on a geography website on why lions never spread to Asia , where tigers were listed as the reason.
Are you serious? You want people to be realistic and logical, yet you say lions with a capital S as in groups, prides, and quantity above 20+ wouldn't be able to be rid of a single or pair of tigers? lol thats funny. The only difference from wild and captivity when they are brought in wild (yes some are brought in as adults straight from the jungle), is in the jungle the tiger can run, in captivity he cannot get away even with all his ninja like powers. According to records that would emulate the wild (pride vs solitary or pairs) it is again unanimous, so that you understand this time around that these arnt lions and tigers who were indigenous to germany lol I'll show that it was in a documented case at a zoo, please show me a single case where a tiger has killed multiple lions 4+ at once:

(Frankfurt zoo)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frankfurt_Zoological_Garden

"Eight lions fought and killed a pair of tigers in Frankfurt's zoo early today after someone had failed to lock the gate between the animals' cages. The one sided battle started when a lioness which recently gave birth to cubs led four adult and three young lions into the tigers' cage. The tigers retreated into a corner before being forced to fight for their lives.




Two young lionesses kill adult white tigress:



One of only 70 white tigers left in the world has died a month after being wounded in a fight with two young lions in an Indian zoo.
Nandan Kanan animal park'


http://nl.newsbank.com/nl-search/we/Archives?p_product=MWSB&p_theme=mwsb&p_action=search&p_maxdocs=200&p_topdoc=1&p_text_direct-0=0EB82D10F0087120&p_field_direct-0=document_id&p_perpage=10&p_sort=YMD_date:D&s_trackval=GooglePM




Liberec (Czech pronunciation: German: Reichenberg) is a city in the Czech Republic. Located on the Lusatian Neisse and surrounded by the Jizera Mountains and Kozákov Ridge: lions kill white tigress in leberic czech zoo.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/offbeat/2009-11-19-Czech-Republic_N.htm

Herald-Post from El Paso, Texas · Page 3 Friday, July 14, 1972


Montana avenue. Tiger Pelt To Go To High Bidder Zoo director Ray Arras said today that plans are being formulated to.call for bids of the pelt of Rajah, the Zoo's Bengal Tiger that was killed in a fight with two lions late yesterday. Arras said the City Clerk's office has unofficially received inquiries from 'ex-students of El Paso High School about the availability of the pelt. The school's mascot symbol is a tiger. A board of inquiry will also be set up by Zoo and Park officials to probe the tiger-lion fight yesterday at feeding time when a door was opened between the two pits holding the animals. The male and female lion attacked the tiger and the Bengal's neck was broken.
http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...s+tiger+dies&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&prmd=ivns&strip=1


Asiatic lions have shown to be able to kill a tiger in a one on one fight almost 20 times in captivity and in the wild of india at maharaj bagh in nagpur, a lioness killed a tigress, in jamnagar a lion named leo killed a bengal named vikram, in nadankan two young lionesess killed a adult white bengal tigress, in agartala a tigress attacked a lion only to be torn into pieces, in pit fights in india the supposed gir fight shows 3 asiatic lions defeating 3 bengals, kailash mentions a tiger being killed by a lion, and jam sahib mentions 5, two more are on 19th century videos as the articles state, in surat, bangalore and ganges river lions have killed tigers in 1 on 1's, several historians and old scriptures in india like the mahabarata and parripattu state the lions killed the tiger, and several artifacts in india shows a lion defeating a tiger, thats all of the supposed smaller asiatic lion beating the bengal tiger...not the african lion who according to empirical evidence would almost unanimously win.
 

Srinivas_K

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Yup... @Srinivas_K forgot the main point mostly lionesses hunts and your Lion King steals the carcass.World's dirtiest animal is the male lion. It looks dirty works dirty.Chi Yak Thuu :lol:

And here Male Tiger

8. When several tigers are present at a kill, the Male Tiger will often wait for females and cubs to eat first, unlike lions, which do the opposite. Tigers rarely argue or fight over a kill and simply wait turns.

Lion is the sole protector of the territory, lionesses and Cubs. Lion joins the hunt when the target is bigger and lionesses cannot bring down the target animal.
 
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Sword

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Lion is the sole protector of the territory, lionesses and Cubs. Lion joins the hunt when the target is bigger and lionesses cannot bring down the target animal.
Indeed...it would be interesting to see the tigers prowess in the hunter vs hunter scene, there is many hype about the tigers hunting capability, I believe him a great hunter but there is a lacking of data that proves so. ike I stated previous, mad indian and sytr seem to be making up fabricated feats of tigers, anyone can find a picture of a tiger eating a dead carcass of a guar, doesnt mean they hunt them regularly, the same way you can find a photo of a lone lion with a dead carcass of a bull elephant, doesnt mean they slaughter elephants 1 on 1. Satyr and mad indian havent seena tiger hunt in the wild in their entire lives, but you know who has? These biologist:

Chitwan Dr. Sunqusit

page 98
..90% of tiger kills were found in riverine forest/grasslands..Most of the prey killed by tigers weigh 50-100 kg,
...In the absence of competitors a tiger can utilize each carcass, and thus there is no necessity to share
http://www.sil.si.edu/smithsoniancontributions/zoology/pdf_hi/sctz-0336.pdf

. Karanth & Sunquist (1995) found that tiger usually selected prey weighing more than 176 kilograms
..Anamalai Tiger Reserve, southern India, the average size of prey caught by tiger was 92 kilograms
..At Nagarahole chital, sambar and wild pig...Karanth & Sunquist (1995)

http://www.ecology.info/tiger-leopard.htm

Prey abundance and food habit of tigers (Panthera tigris tigris) in Pench National Park, Madhya Pradesh (2001)

..Chital (47.3%) along with sambar (14.5%) and wild pig Sus scrofa (10.9%)..The average weight of animals consumed by tigers in the intensive study area was 82.1 kg.

http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/summary?doi=10.1.1.172.119
http://www.science.gov/topicpages/p/panthera+tigris+tigris.html

227 kg considered one of the heaviest and the average 200 kg is based on very small sample.
Journal of Zoology

Volume 286, Issue 3, pages 221–231, March 2012

Abstract

Tigers Panthera tigris continue to decline despite the best efforts of the worldwide scientific and conservation communities. Prey depletion has been linked to this decline, but a clear definition of what constitutes preferred prey and preferred prey weight range does not exist. This is critical information if we are to assess tiger reintroduction potential, monitor unforeseen poaching of predators and prey, and successfully conserve the species. Here we reviewed the available literature on tiger diet and prey availability and calculated Jacobs's electivity index scores from 3187 kills or scats of 32 prey species. We found that wild boar and sambar deer are significantly preferred by tigers, with red deer and barasingha likely to be significantly preferred also with a larger sample size. Prey body mass was the only variable that related to tiger prey preference with species weighing between 60 and 250 kg preferred by tigers yielding a ratio of predator to preferred prey of 1:1, which is similar to other solitary felids. This information can be used to predict tiger diet, carrying capacity and movement patterns, as it has been for Africa's large predator guild, and has important implications for tiger conservation throughout its distribution.

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/...maintenance.++Apologies+for+the+inconvenience.
http://www.researchgate.net/publication/232957224_Prey_preferences_of_the_tiger

1 x 1 ratio when available which is similar to other solitary felids. Lions are 2 x 3 times their own body weight, Lionesess up to 300 kg.

Dr. Packer

..The savannas are the most heterogeneous of felid habitats; lions also live at higher densities than other big cats and thus face the most intense competition for good habitat.

http://www.cbs.umn.edu/research/labs/lionresearch/research/group-living

..Lionesses generally prey on ungulates, comfortably taking down those sized between 50-300 kg.
..But male lions are also very good hunters,..They also take more risks in hunting and occasionally prey on much larger
animals. They can fiercely take down bull buffaloes, giraffes and even hippo.

http://globalsojourns.com/imagedump/Web_Articles/Articles_All_Africa/African_Lion.pdf

Lioness hunt large prey than male tigers on average. Male lions target much larger prey than male tigers.

..However, the individual body mass and the edible biomass of ungulate prey are both variable and complex factors for lions (Schaller, 1972 ; van Orsdol, 1984 ), as with tigers (Karantet al., 2004 ). The body masses of individual prey taken by lions are 3 – 1, 600 kg and, eve n re- stricted to preferred prey, the range is 190 – 550 kg (Hayward & Kerley, 2005 )
..Karanth et al. ( 2004 ) assumed b 5 1 . 0 for tigers (i.e. all prey are potentially eaten) but their field data later placed b closer to 0. 514 ( 0 .001 – 1 . 009 ).
..Hunter (1998) recorded virtually all medium-to large bodied prey consumed by lions over 40 months
..The different scaling factors of tigers and lions could reflect differences between solitary and group hunting. we hesitate to recommend further research, given the utility of the empirical model (Eq. 3 ).

http://journals.cambridge.org/actio...e=online&aid=3505612&fileId=S003060530700124X
http://faculty.nelson.wisc.edu/treves/pubs/2009_lions_Treves-et-al.pdf

32–632 kg for lion Panthera leo

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4079238/

..Lions elsewhere can – opportunistically – kill Cape buffalo Syncerus caffer* (weighing c. 1000 kg) and sometimes hippo Hippopotamus amphibius (c. 1500-3500 kg).
..Though note that some lion populations are specialist buffalo-killers. In Tanzania’s Lake Manyara National Park, George Schaller (1972) reported that an amazing 62% of all lion prey was made up of Cape buffalo, with 81% of this 62% being adult male buffalo
http://scienceblogs.com/tetrapodzoology/2009/02/04/lions-as-macropredators/
http://www.bioone.org/doi/abs/10.3377/004.044.0104

Dr. Schaller

page 209

..adult hippopotami are occasionally killed in Gorgogonza Park (R.Park)..solitary lions tend to prey on herbivores weighing between 50-300 kg..Adult buffalo, some 425 to 850 kg in weight, may be attacked by solitary lions...

https://books.google.com/books?hl=e...51wllbGBv1WxsNYwpH1HqNAqI#v=onepage&q&f=false

..Data were collected on species killed by lions Panthera leo in Hwange National Park, Zimbabwe between 1998 and 2004. Lions killed predominantly large to medium-sized herbivores, concentrating on buffalo Syncerus caffer, elephant Loxodonta africana, giraffe Giraffa camelopardalis, wildebeest Connochaetes taurinus and zebra Equus burchelli. These species made up 83% of all lion kills found and 94% of the biomass of kills actually observed. Elephant calves made up an unusually large proportion of lion prey during the study period (23% of kills recorded). All elephants killed were dependent juveniles

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/...nticated=false&deniedAccessCustomisedMessage=

..Prey:

Elk, wild boar and sika deer, and roe deer make up about 80-90% of tiger prey across tiger range,

http://www.wcsrussia.org/en-us/wildlife/amurtigers/ecology.aspx

Amur tigers predate on larger prey (elk) than Bengal tigers on average. 4 or 5 large Bengal tigers does not represent the whole.

Dr. Packer

..lion predation remains a significant mortality factor for subadults and even for adults (e.g. Hirst, 1969; Pienaar, 1969), which weigh 800–1200 kg (Owen-Smith, 1988) and reach heights of up to 4.5–5.5 m for females and males, respectively (Dagg & Foster, 1982; Pellew, 1983 a )
..Lions are a clear threat to giraffes. Observational studies indicate that giraffes alter their behavior in the presence of lions
..Although solitary lions can attack adult giraffes (Pienaar, 1969), groups of lions are more successful at bringing down large prey (Schaller, 1972)
..The giraffe is an important food source for lions in some regions, including Kruger National Park, South Africa (Pienaar, 1969; Owen-Smith & Mills, 2008) and Hwange National Park, Zimbabwe (Loveridge et al ., 2006). Where giraffes are a large component of the lion’s diet, we might expect even higher claw-mark prevalence than observed in Serengeti..
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1469-7998.2012.00972.x/pdf

.. male lions are in fact considerably more effective and successful predators when it comes to targeting the largest prey—namely elephants and buffalo..
.. it has been demonstrated that male lions have the capability of overpowering a young elephant even when hunting alone [19,23]. Older elephant matriarchs should be more experienced in facing lion encounters than younger matriarchs

http://rspb.royalsocietypublishing.org/content/278/1722/3270

Predator–prey size relationships in an African large-mammal food web


....Studies elsewhere show buffalo to be numerically the predominant prey of lion in Chobe National Park in Botswana (Viljoen 1993), Kafue National Park in Zambia (Mitchell et al. 1965) and Lake Manyara National Park in Tanzania (Schaller 1972). Hayward & Kerley (2005) found that lion selected prey species preferentially within a mass range of 190–550 kg, but made no adjustment for the under-recording of smaller prey species. Over half of the giraffe and two-thirds of the buffalo killed by lion were adult animals in the Mala Mala Reserve adjoining Kruger (Radloff & du Toit 2004). A substantial fraction of the adult buffalo falling prey to lions are killed by male lions hunting independently of female prides (Funston et al. 1998, 2001; Radloff & du Toit 2004). In northern Botswana, lions hunting in groups of around 10 killed young elephants weighing up to 2500 kg in body mass, more than 10 times the mass of a male lion (Joubert 2006).

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1365-2656.2007.01314.x/full

Effects of Predator-prey Body Size Ratios on the Stability of Food Chains.

. the relationship between the predator-prey body mass ratio and the trophic position of the predator, that is, how fast this ratio decreases with increasing trophic height.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9735269

..This is a large difference in comparison with East and South Africa, where lions fed on 65% large prey and 35% medium sized prey (Bauer, 2008). Bauer (2008) stated that the difference between lions from different parts of Africa may not be caused by differences in prey preferences, but by differences in availability.

http://www.leofoundation.org/downloads/VISSER~1.pdf


Tigers preffer animals in the 200-400 pound range as their base food source, while lions in the 600-1,200 pound range, as their base....again, like the previous link on the other post, lions can kill bull giraffe and bull giant eland all on their own, even subadults do. Both can reach 4,000 pounds.

Again, biologist observations for 20+ years >>>>>> tiger fans who has never seen a wild tiger in their life.
 

Mad Indian

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@Sword

:pound:Yeah eight lions ganging up on two tigers and killing them and three lions ganging up on one tiger and killing them proves that tigers can be killed by lions 1v1. Are you a feminist too? Because your reasoning certainly makes you sound like one:lol:


I am too lazy to go back to my original post ,but re read the link I posted from google books. Its as good a historival account you are going to get.


And since you seem stupid and ignorant, let me try removing atleast some of your with ignorance:

Here is book recounting how a tiger once killed 30 lions by itself :

http://archive.org/stream/wildbeastsstud00port#page/238/mode/2up
 

Mad Indian

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Qlooks like the lion bullshitter is up with another bull shit.


So tiger kills 200-400 pound prey by itself while lions hunt in packs of 5-10 to bring down a prey of 1000 pounds makes lions better hunters?:pound:


Yeah, so long as one keeps head up the ass to make such comparisons , it sure does sound like tigers are worse than lions.


Again, on 1 v1 tigers would whoop lion's ass anytime . and I see that none of the links posted by @Sword has any data on 1v1 battles between lions and tigers. Why honey? Afraid that tigers whooped lion's ass every time they met?:lol:
 

Sword

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@Sword

:pound:Yeah eight lions ganging up on two tigers and killing them and three lions ganging up on one tiger and killing them proves that tigers can be killed by lions 1v1. Are you a feminist too? Because your reasoning certainly makes you sound like one:lol:


I am too lazy to go back to my original post ,but re read the link I posted from google books. Its as good a historival account you are going to get.


And since you seem stupid and ignorant, let me try removing atleast some of your with ignorance:

Here is book recounting how a tiger once killed 30 lions by itself :

http://archive.org/stream/wildbeastsstud00port#page/238/mode/2up
lol didnt I just expose you about the gir fight when you showed a video of supposedly 6 lions killed by a tigress, when it was really 3 differently striped tigers being beat up by 3 different lions? thats because you didnt check for its original sources, the account that person like the wrongfully twisted epigrams from martial from 1 which turned into everytime, 1,400 years of the roman empires reign, the tiger won, to just 1 time is a big difference...thats what small amounts of changing the text can do, but obviously anyone can dispute it, since it has to be the original source: and here he is again:


http://newspapers.library.wales/view/3397555/3397558/10/


Charles Jamrach moved to London and took over that branch of the business after his father's death in circa 1840...A fine, full-grown Bengal tiger was deposited, in his rough wooden cage, on this very spot at the gates, having just been delivered from a ship in the docks. The lair at the back was being prepared for his reception, when, the attention of Mr. Jamrach and his merry men being otherwise engaged, Tigris regalis set his hindquarters against the back of his temporary receptacle, and, using all his strength, managed to burst out the boards12. Then he quietly trotted out, and down the main street. The sudden appearance of a full- sized tiger at midday on the pavement of Ratcliff-

There are many things bought at the sale of the effects of the late king of Oude, an enthusiastic old gentleman whose allowance from the British Government was a lac of rupees a month, and who managed to spend it all, and more than all, on curiosities and works of art, so that his funeral was followed by a sale on behalf of his creditors11
http://www.georgewombwell.com/articles/JamrachsStrandArticle.pdf

So we know that charles jamrach bought jungla the tiger from the king of oude, he also sold the tiger to his freinds menagerie edmonds.

Any one else cited that event as of original sources? Oh yeah...one of the most famous scientist of all time:

(Charles Darwin)


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Darwin

Darwin mentioning the fight in:

Edmonds menagerie-->Bromwich--->Which is near ratchcliff high way, England Birmingham:
https://www.google.com/search?q=darwin+of+a+tiger+which+broke+into+the+cage+of+a+lion+at+Bromwich,&tbm=bks&tbo=1&gws_rd=ssl

lol sorry, but yet again, you have no original sources and you only post people who wanted to twist the originals by their unfamed tiger is 18 feet long bull crap..no article of 1857 or before in english or in indian literature, states so, but only if we had someone of that era to validate it, something like the ankara photo that showed no male lions there...hmmm, oh wait we do...a person who visited the King of oude and stated there were only 2-3 lions there:

In the same time frame 1850's memoir ~ Actually acquainted with the animals of the king of oude:
https://books.google.com/books?id=iF1ZAAAAcAAJ&pg=PA261&dq=tiger+king+of+oude+lions&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjdi8Pyi-TJAhWGMGMKHTdfCUoQ6AEIIzAB#v=onepage&q=tiger king of oude lions&f=false

awww, man, craped out again, give the dice another roll bro, lets see how much of a fool you make your self out to be, jungla then named nana-sahib killed on record only 1 lion, and to be even more funny, that lion is the validation Chaarles darwin noted the lions mane protects his neck, in one hand, mad indian who think the hair offers no protection, in the other one of the worlds greatest known scientist said it did, with an actual account to boot lol. And calm down, you're getting all worked up for what exactly? That tigers hunt smaller animals on average, that tigers usually lose in the wild and no evidence in any form would back your claim that 1 tiger took out entire prides in the wild of anicent india? lol Sure bro, sure.

and awww, what did you thought was going to happen, that the single or pair of tigers were to wipe them out, like you claimed? Sytr...ban me for copy an pasting, arnt we all here copying and pasting? But out of us two, looks like mines are the only ones with true merits. so shouldnt you be banned for on-going-lieing? nah, oh and mad indian, why are you ignoring the biologist like packer who stated these were at times solitary lions too? More twisting of the truth i see? And again, how can a tiger wipe out entire prides of 300-400 pound lions? The tiger cant even wipe out a pack of 50 lb wild dogs:
http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=35515

A male lion scatters 100-200 lb 20+ hyenas


Hyenas would wreck a tiger.
 
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Sword

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^^ Idiot spammer
Bengal Tiger on Avg is 221 kg, in Panna it is 245 kg by modern scientific methods.


And lion avg is 174 to max 193 kg.Tiger has 42 kg weight advantage.



Mane is not a BULLET PROOF jacket it is just HAIR :p
wow look at how shiney and new your tiger weights are and how old and faded the lion one is, so basically you are comparing two random weight figures to each other and making those specific eras heavier in the comparisons? lol I can do that too:

Sub-species - Bengal tiger


However, the tigers in the Sundarbans weigh just 76.7 kg, nearly half of the weight of other wild Bengal tigers, which average at 138.2 kg. This is also less than the average weight of tigers from any of the other 8 sub-species, making the Sundarbans tigers probably the smallest in the world
http://archive.thedailystar.net/newDesign/news-details.php?nid=156957



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caspar_Whitney

There is also much exaggeration concerning size and weight. A tiger that measures ten feet from the tip of its nose to the end of its tail is a big one, and above the average, which is about nine and a half feet. Of course there are exceptions, as in all animal kind, but the majority of eleven and twelve foot tiger stories are fiction. I was unable during six months' hunting to find definite account of one even eleven feet in length. I did hear of several ranging from ten feet to ten feet six inches, and one of ten feet eight inches. So also with the weight, which is commonly written down at from 4oo to 5oo pounds, whereas the average will run from 3oo to 375 pounds, the latter being a good one and the former figure more near the average.
http://books.google.com/books?dq=th...d=VCAuAAAAYAAJ&ie=ISO-8859-1&output=html_text

This would mean, the largest population of tigers are roughly the size of a large leopard, or small jaguar, not nearly the weight and size of a asiatic lion, and no where near the weight of the african lion, who even sub-adult males can pull in well over 220 kg:

http://www.africadreamsafaris.com/blog/?p=18361





There are numerous lions in the 20th century that passes the 260kg mark, there isnt a single bengal or siberian that breached the 255 kg range...these are all text that cant be verified, I can get tons of 1,000 pound lions:
https://news.google.com/newspapers?...AIBAJ&sjid=P1IDAAAAIBAJ&pg=5652,3269037&hl=en

doesnt mean these text of 850 lb bengals and siberians have any more credability, but theres something that does...video:

So by irrefutable evidence, via what we can see with our own two eyes, the lion is the heaviest cat. lol...funny how you have to cherry pick the statistics, and cant handle that the average lion is heavier, taller, bigger than the average tigers, even the average asiatic lion is heavier than the average bengal (factoring in all locations).

lol Keep it goin bro, and I'd favor a lion over a tiger even if he had a 500 lb advantage:


In virtue of having a protective mane, and years and years of more fighting experience and skill.
 

Kshatriya87

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Lions are scared of water. On the other hand, check out the hunting videos of royal Bengal tiger. He run across the river swiftly. Before the prey realizes, he's history.
 

Razor

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I didn't read all the posts, coz most of them are too big for such a silly question.

But the answer is obvious: TIGER.

A healthy tiger will rip apart a healthy lion in 1-on-1 combat.

In the above post (#124) by Sword, it says a 1000lb tiger. Are you kiddin' me? That is one overweight tiger; obviously because it has been fed shitty human made food, and because its hunting instincts have been dulled.

Next, I think the reason the lion is called "king of the beasts" is because it lives in a pride.
It just sits there like a lazy bugger on welfare and the females do all the hunting and rearing and so on, so it was called the "king."
No need to do anything, just sit around, while your minions do everything.

The majestic tiger on the other hand is a product of evolution honing it's hunting/murder skills :D
 

Sword

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There are only 100 tigers out of 2200 in Sunderban MANGROVES. Their weight mentioned already

Stop spamming...

One Tigress effortlessly attacks man on Big bull elephant even lions pack run away from elephant.


13 foot Crocodile killed by tigress effortlessly :)


600 kg World's largest Gaur killed by Tiger, again effortlessly :D that is tiger. Perfect killing machine not scavenger in savanna.

lol nice guar calf who looks to be no bigger than 500 lbs. This is what happens when all types of different tigers fight full grown buffalo/guar:

:




The buffalo, thinking his adversary was still alive, attacked and gored him...authors
agree that the water buffalo almost always won
http://www.academia.edu/5407176/A_Tiger_in_the_Heart_the_Javanese_Rampok_Macan



The tiger invariably attempts to kill his enemy by leaping on his shoulders and breaking his neck, but when he is in the air midway of his leap the buffalo usually lunges forward and strikes him a stunning blow with his head and horns; then, before he can scramble to his feet, the buffalo is upon him kneeling and kneading his body with such terrific force that he is left a bloody, mutilated and lifeless pulp. Sometimes two tigers are pitted against one buflalo, and it is seldom that he fails to vanquish them.
https://books.google.com/books?id=S...EwAQ#v=onepage&q=rampok tiger buffalo&f=false

TWO TIGERS KILLED IN FAIR FIGHT BY AN INDIAN BISON
http://library.la84.org/SportsLibrary/Outing/Volume_51/outLI05/outLI05r.pdf

series of thrusts and tossings till its feline enemy was gored to death
https://books.google.com/books?id=YscNAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA268&lpg=PA268&dq=buffalo+tiger+fight+%22gored+to+death%22&source=bl&ots=wsBik9br59&sig=MtlGonmpKOfUZF1tHAWn5fxQS5s&hl=en&sa=X&ei=rmZWVeH-H9b_yQTXkYGwAg&ved=0CBQQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=buffalo%20tiger%20fight%20%22gored%20to%20death%22&f=false
The tiger killed seven persons and injured five before being gored to death by the
buffalo
https://news.google.com/newspapers?...AIBAJ&sjid=L-UDAAAAIBAJ&pg=4709,2024853&hl=en

tiger gored to death by buffalo:
http://cdnc.ucr.edu/cgi-bin/cdnc?a=d&d=DAC18820923.2.59
prince some years ago to a fight between a buffalo and a tiger, in which the latter was easily vanquished and gored to death.
https://books.google.com/books?id=1U09AQAAIAAJ&pg=PA277&lpg=PA277&dq=buffalo+tiger+fight+%22gored+to+death%22&source=bl&ots=-QaT2pGO1b&sig=Me3_9a96AFs42Kjf1OH1sOUVuD0&hl=en&sa=X&ei=tmdWVdmTDYakyQSnkoD4Dw&ved=0CCAQ6AEwBA#v=onepage&q=buffalo%20tiger%20fight%20%22gored%20to%20death%22&f=false



Soon a fight between a royal tiger anda buffalo together in a pen was commenced. The tiger was several times tossed into the air and then gored to death
https://books.google.com/books?id=myw_AQAAMAAJ&pg=RA6-PA17&lpg=RA6-PA17&dq=buffalo+tiger+fight+%22gored+to+death%22&source=bl&ots=qcgkwFuKCg&sig=9I49hEv41Bnms1_nZ-mnCEhc1DU&hl=en&sa=X&ei=tmdWVdmTDYakyQSnkoD4Dw&ved=0CCQQ6AEwBg#v=onepage&q=buffalo%20tiger%20fight%20%22gored%20to%20death%22&f=false

Tiger is killed by bull in el paso
http://www.fultonhistory.com/Proces...evada Chronicle 01-01 12-31 1908s - 1285.PDF

First, a fight was staged between a tiger and a buffalo, in which the big cat was
usually gored to death.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/4727249/How-the-tiger-earned-his-stripes.html

700 lb bengal named Caesar whipped by bull


Bull kills tiger:
https://books.google.com/books?id=UzEFAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA477&lpg=PA477&dq=%22fight+between%22++bull+tiger&source=bl&ots=AHC1KDL1Em&sig=CNbCXbO93HNOAbCnFrU4yX7W_7c&hl=en&sa=X&ei=C3FWVeG_PI-SyQSN2oCgCg&ved=0CBYQ6AEwATgU#v=onepage&q=%22fight%20between%22%20%20bull%20tiger&f=false

the buffalo is quite frequently the victor
https://books.google.com/books?id=Z...v=onepage&q=buffalo tiger fight malay&f=false
describes the evolution of the curious tiger rituals at the Javanese courts, involving "tiger sticking" by massed lancemen and tiger-buffalo fights (which the tiger usually lost).
http://muse.jhu.edu/journals/jih/summary/v034/34.3potter.html
whips two tigers:
https://books.google.com/books?id=9H41AQAAMAAJ&pg=PA31-IA204&lpg=PA31-IA204&dq=%22fight+between%22++bull+tiger&source=bl&ots=O8RYlKmBhx&sig=_s4WaEs6mz_5Lm-i2zZLpQNDmRY&hl=en&sa=X&ei=0nBWVYrhHZKVyATAv4GoDQ&ved=0CDgQ6AEwBw#v=onepage&q=%22fight%20between%22%20%20bull%20tiger&f=false

Tigers were either made to fight buffaloes (the buffalo won)
https://books.google.com/books?id=J...page&q=tiger buffalo macan always won&f=false


The previous links showed packer and several other people who noted the lions range is upper of 1,200 pounds, while the tiger lower than 600 for average prey, unless you can post a hundred guar being killed, you dont know what the words average compared to rarely means, averagely the lion hunts bigger prey...and you have one crocodile...lol the link I showed lions killed over 20 crocodiles from 8-15 feet long. the only person who is spamming is you, and whats even more funny you arnt just spamming, you're whineing and crying like a kid throwing a tantrum, re-read your post so far and compare them to mine...

Mine truth and still hasnt been disproved
Your two's frabricated lies that were exposed with original sources

Too bad, so tigers get killed by leopards (10x's) which proves their necks are vulnerable and can be beaten by a smaller animal, who is lodes more weaker, male tigers get killed by tigresses (20'xs) which proves again that their necks are vulnerable, tigers gets killed by wild dogs (20+times) which shows they are not combative as lions are against hyenas, lions have killed tigers (80+ times) which tigers havent even killed lions on individual records just 20 times, yet we have people saying random things with false records and weak arguments...do carry on spammer.

I'd rather take the opinion and facts from a person who has worked with 2,000 tigers and lions for 40 years and has seen hundreds of fights, with upto 50 tigers killed by lions:
http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=17524&PN=7

Than take the advice from two cry babys who has absolutely zero experience with either animal. lol
 

vayuu1

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1. King should be very majestic and distinguishable from the rest

Tiger is the most Majestic,Powerful,fearsome&Beautiful.

-----------------------------------------------

2. King should respect and protect his clan

3+Tigresses live in 1 male tiger land and he protects his family from other tigers too.

-------------------------------

3. The entire clan should be willing to do 'sacrifice' for the king

WTF is this? Lions fight are not death matches one lion/pack push second lion pack

-----------------------------------

4. The palace where king lives should be very open and visible to others even from a distance

Jungle is closed and grassland is open.. idiotic logic in-favor of lions

----------------

5. King should be willing to abdicate his throne to a new king when he becomes old

Yes all casts fight and also Two tigers fight for supremacy.What is new in this?

--------------------------------------

Lion is a sexually dimorphic animal whereas the tiger is not. The gait and mane of a matured lion gives an august & majestic appearance to it and such distinguishable features are not present in tiger.


Sh** logic
Tiger is the most Majestic,Powerful,fearsome&Beautiful.


-----------------------------
The corporate must always carry very distinguishable and remarkable qualities or values in the market place. The organization should be known for its ethics.

ethics! Read below unlike filthy greedy lions
8. When several tigers are present at a kill, the males will often wait for females and cubs to eat first, unlike lions, which do the opposite. Tigers rarely argue or fight over a kill and simply wait turns.

-------------------------------------------
The second management principle to be learned from the above by the corporate is that the lion protects all the members of the pride from other lions and it tolerates all the members of the pride as well.

Tigers tolerate other tigers too.


------------------------
The lion lives in open country. It never follows the hunting strategy of 'ambush' like tiger. The message to be learned by the corporate in this regard is that they should conduct themselves in a very fair and open manner. Transparency should be understood and followed by them in letter and spirit.

Ambush=Power... Rundown =Weak&old animal......... Single Tiger on record HUNTED ELEPHANTS&RHINOS.6+ Lions pack never ever dared to attack any elephant/Rhino.

----------------------------------


The last and the most important management principle is that the lion when looses its dominance, retreat and the new king gets the throne. The message it conveys is that the corporate must abdicate its 'expired beliefs' and renew them as and when required. If they remain firm with what they believe is right, growth and development become impossible. Adaptation and formation of new generation always call for abdication of certain beliefs and values.


Same as Tigers. :D
In short tigers are sanskari like alok nath and bharat bhushan, powerful like dara singh and randhava, personality is like amitabh bacchan, of kalia, whereas as lion is like bob christo.
 

Sword

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:rofl::rofl: Gaurs weight range 800-1500 kg that gaur cow is min 500-600 kg.In the video Tiger is above 500lb easily.

btw i didn't posted any link just 2/3 SOLID IMAGES(Scientific proofs)&VIDEOS.Now Burg off spammer
Nah thats a calf, not a cow. Bovine vs Tiger 90% win bull 10% if the bull is ambushed. wheres your scientifi proof they were being weighed? ohhh, just more of your spamasaty lol
 

Sword

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Yes Tiger is the Perfect Gentle man&Killing machine. :)

It structure resemblance Bear and it can stand on his two feet&kick-box with hands.
It is as cunning&secretive as Leopard
Perfect Swimmer even middle of the river Tiger hunted human on boats in sunderbans.
Yet this still happened:

Boss tweeds kills three tigers:


Boss Tweed," Clyde said, "was one of the greatest fighters I've ever seen, in addition to his noble looks. He did some of his cleverest fighting in the Rochester Massacre. That was this spring. When Iwo score of lions and tigers were in the arena for a dress rehearsal. One, on a high seat, reached down to take a cuff at the cat below. They frequently do that without much happening. But in this case the caton the- high scat fell off and landed on the one below. The one below, thinking he was attacked, started to fight. In a second it was a free-for-all. In such a fight the lions have two distinct advantages. Their first is their thick mane which prevents the tigers from getting to their throats. Their second is their clannish way of ganging up on a tiger. A tiger will justwatch another tiger being attacked. The lions join each other. An animal attendant excitedly raised a gate into the shoot so the beasts could return to their cages. Into the shoot ran three Bengal tigers with Boss Tweed in pursuit. "For twenty minutes they battled. Boss Tweed killed the three tigers, but himself was almost torn to ribbons. He recovered but somehow he never seemed to be the same. His spirit or his fighting nerve was gone. The other morning I opened his cage door and he was dead, for seven years I trained him, the longest of any of my cats. I was greatly attached to him.
http://www.newspapers.com/newspage/195707/

Clyde stated he got majority of them from the wild...wild lion > 3 wild tigers.

Things that have killed tigers (as shown) she-bears, leopardesses, single lionesses, tigresses, and none of those animals have killed a male lion...could you show me a actual documented case of a tiger killing multiple lions at once?
 

Sword

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Who is that Clyde a CIRCUS trainer in 1920 :lol: ... Tigers wary from Samatran 90-222 kg Bengal.No body knows which tiger he used and are they injured/old/lying for British masters/his favorite is Lion like lion fanatics

Anyway 80% living Tigers are Bengal's and their avg is 222 (42 kg weight advantage).Case closed.
you said that already, didnt change any of the historical records of lions killing tigers much bigger than 222 kg.

1.) Hes an american, not british
2.) Who knows? He knows hes the one who stated it
3.) Sumatran, no, he said 3 bengals
4.) if bothered to read, he states 20x he gets them from the wild as zoo bred do not perform well or listen

No matter how hard you try to hide it, he stated he had 50 tigers killed by lions, in his 40 years worth of being...and still is...the guiness world record holder of mixing 43 wild lions and tigers...the articles have the dates on each of the tigers were killed, didnt you see his movie the big cage? 3 tigers were killed in there too, but thats only obvious you dont read anything that goes against your bias animal...can a tiger beat the lion at swimming? leaping? agility? Most likely, but fighting, having stronger paw strikes, has a protecting factor?

Sorry, but thats a no. and lol, you didnt show 80% of the tigers being weighed, you just showed less than 40, isnt there like 2,000+? And sundarban tigers are classified under the bengal sub-species, you why so desperate in trying to leave them out? Is it because they weigh 76 kg? Which is as small as a leopard...hence on average the lion is bigger. case re-opned. lol
 
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