Tibet's largest water project completes damming

J20!

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So guys must be so starved of human rights that you can't differentiate between human rights and democracy, communism and economy.

No wonder whenever someone posts about human rights, you guys are talking about every other thing in the world.

I wouldn't be surprised if you talk about infrastructure in your next post.
So now you've turned the discussion from CHina building infrastructure to a human rights dischussion? I know you like to fantasize about China being a dictatorship equal in nastiness to saddam and the NAZI's but it isn't. have you been to China? Have you seen military police kicking in doors like the Gestapo and executing innocent citizens in public squares?

Communism and dictatorship are two different things. Google them. China is not the Soviet Union. Our type of governance and economy are worlds apart. I may not be able to legally raise strikes and discord in the streets of China, but what exactly necesitates that? We are comfortable here. You're clearly just tryna find faults in China, AGAIN. Democracy, in Afghanistan, Iraq, INDIA, does not put food in the poor's mouth. And you have millions of them as I've said repeatedly, evey system has its pro's and con's. I have a descent meal, a poor peasent in mumbai can protest.

American's can lecture us about democracy, since their system is admirable, Indian's, with rampant corruption and poverty? NOOOO! Fix your own house before pointing out faults in your neighbors much MUCH better house.

Now, give me evidence that China's dams have sucked a fellow asian country dry as ya'll were claiming.
 

SPIEZ

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Big talk? We r doing things when u r dreaming . Get real .LOL
I was referring to this comment.

Democracy, in Afghanistan, Iraq, INDIA, does not put food in the poor's mouth. And you have millions of them as I've said repeatedly, evey system has its pro's and con's. I have a descent meal, a poor peasent in mumbai can protest.

American's can lecture us about democracy, since their system is admirable, Indian's, with rampant corruption and poverty? NOOOO! Fix your own house before pointing out faults in your neighbors much MUCH better house.

Again I m not talking about COMMUNISM/DEMOCRACY/ECONOMY.
I am talking about HUMAN RIGHTS
( and I pity you chinesse for not understanding what that word means)
I know you like to fantasize about China being a dictatorship equal in nastiness to saddam and the NAZI's but it isn't. have you been to China? Have you seen military police kicking in doors like the Gestapo and executing innocent citizens in public squares?
Where have I fantasized of China being Dictatorship????

On further reference to the HUMAN RIGHTS SITUATION IN CHINA
http://www.amnestyusa.org/our-work/countries/asia-and-the-pacific/china

As I said, in India people can protest about anything, new state new country and
even about corruption. Can you do it in China ????


 

no smoking

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I was referring to this comment.



Again I m not talking about COMMUNISM/DEMOCRACY/ECONOMY.
I am talking about HUMAN RIGHTS
( and I pity you chinesse for not understanding what that word means)Where have I fantasized of China being Dictatorship????

On further reference to the HUMAN RIGHTS SITUATION IN CHINA
http://www.amnestyusa.org/our-work/countries/asia-and-the-pacific/china

As I said, in India people can protest about anything, new state new country and
even about corruption. Can you do it in China ????


Please, chinese human right is chinese concern. Don't pretend you really care about it. Just like we don't realy give a damn what you think about chinese.

Let's talk about something in real world. You indians don't like the dam in tibet, it is fine. Nobody wants his resource supply is controlled by another big guy.
 

singa

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I was referring to this comment.



Again I m not talking about COMMUNISM/DEMOCRACY/ECONOMY.
I am talking about HUMAN RIGHTS
( and I pity you chinesse for not understanding what that word means)Where have I fantasized of China being Dictatorship????

On further reference to the HUMAN RIGHTS SITUATION IN CHINA
http://www.amnestyusa.org/our-work/countries/asia-and-the-pacific/china

As I said, in India people can protest about anything, new state new country and
even about corruption. Can you do it in China ????


I am from Singapore. I must say HUMAN RIGHTS != Free Speech or protest.

Human Rights = Free Speech or protest + food + house + life-expectation+education + clean water + hospital + road + train + airplane + thousands of more....

US government always talk human rights == free speech, that is not true. human rights >> free speech.

So I visited China and Indian frequently. I must say human rights in China is better that in India based on the standard above.
 

SPIEZ

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I am from Singapore. I must say HUMAN RIGHTS != Free Speech or protest.

Human Rights = Free Speech or protest + food + house + life-expectation+education + clean water + hospital + road + train + airplane + thousands of more....

US government always talk human rights == free speech, that is not true. human rights >> free speech.

So I visited China and Indian frequently. I must say human rights in China is better that in India based on the standard above.
I agree education, hospital and food make part of human rights

There's something called quality of Living! The rest come in to it.

Also in India, by birth some people get the benefit of education via RESERVATION and sadly not due to economy.
 

Ray

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If human rights means a gilded cage, then those who visit India and China can sit and enjoy in such a gilded cage.

For someone from Singapore, where they is a regimented society to a great extent, India would indeed look chaotic and full of faults.

Have you been to Tibet or Xinjiang?
 
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redragon

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If human rights means a gilded cage, then those who visit India and China can sit and enjoy in such a gilded cage.

For someone from Singapore, where they is a regimented society to a great extent, India would indeed look chaotic and full of faults.

Have you been to Tibet or Xinjiang?
Show me any link /pictures from any source to support you claim that Chinese are living in gilded cage please, if you can't your talking BS. And have you been to Xizang or Xinjiang??
 

Dovah

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Show me any link /pictures from any source to support you claim that Chinese are living in gilded cage please, if you can't your talking BS. And have you been to Xizang or Xinjiang??
You know he said it figuratively, right?
 

Tshering22

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Show me any link /pictures from any source to support you claim that Chinese are living in gilded cage please, if you can't your talking BS. And have you been to Xizang or Xinjiang??
Giving fabricated names to brutally oppressed nation will not change its reality. I don't know about Xingjiang but there's no such thing as Xizang. Maybe in your local dialect it is known so.
 

redragon

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You know he said it figuratively, right?
No, actually, different Indian members used similar words to discrib China in different post, so I am quite convinced by you guys that you really mean what you said. So I have to ask you to provide proof
 

redragon

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Giving fabricated names to brutally oppressed nation will not change its reality. I don't know about Xingjiang but there's no such thing as Xizang. Maybe in your local dialect it is known so.
I don't know where is the Tibet you are talking about, to Chinese, it's always Xizang, it's a province of China, please don't change it's name without asking Chinese
 

J20!

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If human rights means a gilded cage, then those who visit India and China can sit and enjoy in such a gilded cage.

For someone from Singapore, where they is a regimented society to a great extent, India would indeed look chaotic and full of faults.

Have you been to Tibet or Xinjiang?
India IS chaotic and full of faults. You guys should build a little infrastructure you know, ask China to help you build a dam for clean energy, a few skyscrapers here and there, clean up your cities. If you were to go to one of our many many WORLD CLASS cities, or even the clean and peaceful country-side, you'd realize that China isn't the monstrous dictator you think it is, we are just trying to provide a better life for the Chinese people, which they have been deprived of for centuries.

Have you been to China before? As far as I know, Tibet is taken care of as much as any province in China. Its not some occupied land as you like to put it, its not a Gaza strip. This dam you guys are tryna bash, is for our fellow countrymen in Tibet.
 

Ray

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India IS chaotic and full of faults. You guys should build a little infrastructure you know, ask China to help you build a dam for clean energy, a few skyscrapers here and there, clean up your cities. If you were to go to one of our many many WORLD CLASS cities, or even the clean and peaceful country-side, you'd realize that China isn't the monstrous dictator you think it is, we are just trying to provide a better life for the Chinese people, which they have been deprived of for centuries.

Have you been to China before? As far as I know, Tibet is taken care of as much as any province in China. Its not some occupied land as you like to put it, its not a Gaza strip. This dam you guys are tryna bash, is for our fellow countrymen in Tibet.
Chaos is possible only when there is no regimentation of the mind and all are free to think in their own way!

It is a great gift that cannot be comprehend by those who have not ever experienced it!

I fail to understand how a Dam that deprives water to other countries is progress or in service of humanity!

China can build great cities, but don't forget at what costs. Desertification and surprisingly floods and famine.

Do you want me to give you links on the effect of the Three Gorges Dam?

I have given them earlier.

China would not be leasing land in Africa is there was a clean and abundant rural area!

What is ätryna?
 

J20!

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Chaos is possible only when there is no regimentation of the mind and all are free to think in their own way!

It is a great gift that cannot be comprehend by those who have not ever experienced it!

I fail to understand how a Dam that deprives water to other countries is progress or in service of humanity!

China can build great cities, but don't forget at what costs. Desertification and surprisingly floods and famine.

Do you want me to give you links on the effect of the Three Gorges Dam?

I have given them earlier.

China would not be leasing land in Africa is there was a clean and abundant rural area!

What is ätryna?
I'll say it again... Give me a link or any PROOF whatsoever that verifiably says China's dams have ran some country dry...

The three Gorges dam is a feat of engineering brilliance. Yes flooding a huge area and relocating a whole lotta people was unpleasent, but necessary. But then it has much greater benefits. The three Gorges has lessened our need for power producing coal plants, which curbs our emmisions. Which country has the Three Gorges drained?

So you're saying our dams have caused floods and famine? One minute we're being berated for pollution, even though the US produces almost as much but has a quarter of our population, which is really just hypocritical, and the next, when we try using more environmentally friendly methods, we are causing "floods and famine". When India becomes as developed as China is right now, you'll produce just as much pollution, I bet you wont be saying you're causing "floods and famine" then.

Tryna? Trying to... Read it again.

Again, name the country we've sucked dry and exposed to famine.
 

Ray

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I'll say it again... Give me a link or any PROOF whatsoever that verifiably says China's dams have ran some country dry...

The three Gorges dam is a feat of engineering brilliance. Yes flooding a huge area and relocating a whole lotta people was unpleasent, but necessary. But then it has much greater benefits. The three Gorges has lessened our need for power producing coal plants, which curbs our emmisions. Which country has the Three Gorges drained?

So you're saying our dams have caused floods and famine? One minute we're being berated for pollution, even though the US produces almost as much but has a quarter of our population, which is really just hypocritical, and the next, when we try using more environmentally friendly methods, we are causing "floods and famine". When India becomes as developed as China is right now, you'll produce just as much pollution, I bet you wont be saying you're causing "floods and famine" then.

Tryna? Trying to... Read it again.

Again, name the country we've sucked dry and exposed to famine.
This can happen to the riparian states i.e. India and Bangladesh because of Damming the Brahmaputra

Case study of Three Gorges.

Case Study: The Three Gorges Dam

For a long time, building dams has been an effective way to harness water for human use. Recently, however, it has become clear that the consequences of our reliance on dams are mixed. A good example is the controversial Three Gorges Dam on the Yangtze River in China.

Background

For much of the 20th Century, dam projects were seen as cost-effective ways to increase energy availability, harness and provide clean water, and control flooding, while also providing jobs and economic growth. Dams were the preferred way to:

Manage seasonal variability in rainfall and water supplies;
Regulate water flows in order to prevent floods;
Create hydroelectric power;
Entice vendors and consumers of lake recreation and tourism; and
Display national pride and know-how in giant infrastructure construction.

Today new dams no longer seem so appealing.

Most easily diverted major waterways are already dammed, especially in the developed world.
The human cost of dams in terms of people displaced by construction and resulting pollution is becoming more apparent and less tolerable.
The environmental costs are becoming evident in terms of destroyed ecosystems and damage to animal and plant species.
Large reservoirs combined with global warming are leading to high evaporation rates that result in decreased water yields from dams.
Major accidents from leaky or breached dams have the potential to kill large numbers of people, especially as populations around them become denser.
Soil erosion along diverted waterways can lead to deadly landslides, while the buildup of silt in other parts of the system impedes water flows and electricity generation.

There are currently 50,000 plus large dams in the world. It is unlikely that many more will be built, since in the 21st Century the logistical, human, and ecological costs would in all probability outweigh the benefits.

The Three Gorges Dam

In no place has the concern over dam projects generated more publicity than in China, home to many of the world's medium and large-sized dams. Included on China's list is the recently completed Three Gorges Dam, the world's largest hydroelectric project. The Three Gorges Dam is part of a concerted effort by the Chinese to tap into the many rivers draining out of the Tibetan high plateau to meet the country's ever growing energy needs.

While initially the Chinese government proudly emphasized the engineering marvel that was represented by the dam, it has become increasingly evident that the dam has taken a staggering social and cultural toll. It is estimated that 1.3 million people were forced into resettlement during construction, with up to 4 million more anticipated to be relocated in the next 15 years due to environmental damage (primarily landslides) and pollution from the project. Entire communities, ways of life, and ancestral archives have been flooded and/or destroyed. Fears are rising that a natural disaster, such as an earthquake, could cause immense damage to the dam, and potentially kill millions in a resulting flood.

The environmental toll has been no less significant; the litany of effects described above for dams has occurred on an unprecedented scale. Ecosystem destruction and pollution has occurred not only at the site of the dam, but also in communities where large populations have had to relocate and further stress natural balances in regions already suffering from overpopulation. As farmers retreat to higher ground and attempt to build farms on the hillsides, massive erosion and landslides are occurring. Geologists believe that the threat of earthquakes, already a risk in this region, is increased by the pressure from the water in the dam's growing reservoir. Silt accumulation in the reservoir is developing rapidly, and is expected to cause flooding upstream.

The problems created by the Three Gorges Dam have clearly demonstrated that large dam projects are not the solution they were once thought to be. Alternative methods of energy generation more suited to modern life and environmental realities must be developed; these will undoubtedly be more technologically creative, more local, and less environmentally destructive.

See:

New York Times' "Chinese Dam Projects Criticized for Their Human Costs"

BBC News' "In Pictures: Three Gorges Dam"

BBC News' "Three Gorges Dam Reaches for the Sky"

BBC News' "Deep Concern Over Three Gorges Dam"
 

Ray

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Further,

China's Impending Drought and its Implications
Posted on February 10, 2011 by Pat| Leave a comment

Another major drought looks set to hit Chinese grain production this year, with some officials suggesting that the drought could be the worst in 60 years (while in Shandong province specifically, some are suggesting that it could be the worst drought in 200 years).

A recent China Daily article says "Some 2.57 million people and 2.79 million livestock are suffering from drinking water shortages, official figures showed"¦Eight major grain-producing provinces, including Shandong, Jiangsu, Henan, Hebei and Shanxi, have been affected. Together they produce more than 80 percent of China's winter wheat." In response to the drought, the People's Daily reports, "Zhang Qiang, head of Beijing's artificial weather intervention office, said the office began cloud-seeding Wednesday night in nine districts and counties of Miyun, Mentougou, Yanqing, Haidian, Pinggu, Changping, Shijingshan, Fangshan and Huairou"¦ By 6 a.m. Thursday, 759 silver iodide rods had been used to increase precipitation." (sidenote: Interesting that China has state-sponsored & endorsed "artificial weather intervention offices").

The major issue is that if China's domestic grain supplies tumble, they will be forced to purchase grain from the international market; which happens to already be overtaxed by under-supply. This graph depicts the top 10 wheat importers by tonnage (chart found here; data from USDA).



As you can see, China is not in the top 10. In fact its ranked 34, between Iraq and Pakistan. For a country the size of China to be that far down this list is very surprising, and goes to show how self-sufficient they are. However, this hides the mass of people in China.



Furthermore, sustained temperature increases can be expected from climate change, along with more frequent extreme events, including droughts and dry-spells. If China were to switch permanently to a grain importer, rather than a grain exporter (as Lester Brown suggested over a decade ago), then serious adjustments to global food production will need to be addressed, including increased exploration of GM and non-GM drought resistant varieties.

Water Security | Exploring food, floods, famine, dams, droughts and more…
 

Ray

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China floods test Three Gorges Dam

BEIJING, China (Reuters) -- Floodwaters are putting China's massive Three Gorges Dam to the test and raising water levels on its longest river, the Yangtze, after weeks of floods nationwide killed about 700 people, state media said on Tuesday.

Water is being released from the reservoir behind the world's largest hydroelectric project through giant sluice gates, raising water levels downstream.

The central province of Hubei was on alert, as the flood crest was expected to reach or exceed levels that would trigger flood warnings, Xinhua news agency said.

"The Three Gorges Dam has opened 18 sluices, and the water level in the reservoir will continue to rise," Xinhua quoted a worker at the dam's operation department as saying.

"The safety of the dam will be tested."

Water is pouring into the Three Gorges reservoir, which stretches for hundreds of kilometers through narrow gorges, at 51,000 cubic meters per second, and could rise to 56,700 cubic meters per second on Tuesday. The sluice gates will release water at 48,000 cubic meters per second.

High water levels forced the closure of the ship locks at the dam on Monday.

Hubei was preparing for flood-prevention work along the 1,390-km (860-mile) section of the river that runs from the dam to the industrial city of Wuhan, Xinhua said.

Heavy flooding along the Yangtze in 1998 left the streets of Wuhan waist-deep in water, while about 3,000 died and 14 million were made homeless along the river.

About 700 Chinese have died this summer from heavy rains that triggered landslides, floods and house collapses.

Millions fled the swollen Huai River in the central province of Henan and the eastern provinces of Anhui and Jiangsu. River levels there have begun to retreat after a month of high water.
Don't Miss

Downpours have killed 16 people and left 14 missing in the northwestern province of Shaanxi in the past three days, the Ministry of Civil Affairs said.

More than 35,000 residents were evacuated as 8,536 houses collapsed and roads and telecommunications were cut off, the ministry said in a statement on its Web site (中华人民共和国民政部).

"The rain is continuing and the damage is expected to increase," the statement said.

In parts of the flood-battered southwestern province of Guizhou, four people were killed, five seriously injured, and three went missing in landslides and mud and rock flows triggered by rainstorms since Sunday, Xinhua said.

The casualties were reported in Renhuai city, renowned for its fiery Moutai drink, China's national liquor, but serious river and street flooding also hit two dozen counties where many thousands were stranded, Xinhua said.

Tens of thousands of passengers were stranded at Beijing airport on Monday when almost all evening flights were canceled because of hours of thunderstorms and heavy rain, the Beijing News said on Tuesday.
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Sixty-nine Chinese miners spent a second day trapped in a flooded coal pit in the central province of Henan, but they were safe and in contact with rescuers late on Monday, state media said.

High temperatures in seven provinces in China's east and south meanwhile have prolonged a drought that has persisted for nearly a month.

China floods test Three Gorges Dam - CNN.com
 

Ray

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China's Three Gorges Dam Under Fire
By Lin Yang

The giant Three Gorges Dam across China's Yangtze River has been mired in controversy ever since it was first proposed 88 years ago by Sun Yat Sen, the founding father of Modern China. In 1992, when Chinese Premier Li Peng submitted a proposal for the dam to China's normally pliant parliament, the National People's Congress, it ran into serious opposition and ultimately passed with the smallest margin in the legislature's history.

Still, it is a sign of just how grave the problems are facing the world's largest dam that criticism is now coming from top government officials in Beijing, who previously had studiously avoided saying anything derogatory about the $180 billion project. In June, Chinese Premier Wen Jiabao told a meeting of the State Council, convened to discuss the Three Gorges project, that solving environmental problems surrounding the controversial dam project should be a priority for the country. On Sept. 25, a group of senior government officials and scholars announced at a work meeting in Wuhan that the project had the potential to cause a "huge disaster ... if steps are not taken promptly." And on Oct. 9, the Chongqing municipal government announced it would have to relocate an additional four million people in at-risk areas due to environmental damange caused by the dam.

Originally built to control the Yangtze's regular flooding, produce electricity to fuel China's booming economy and (not incidentally) serve as a symbol of the nation's emerging engineering prowess, the Three Gorges Dam has already faced a host of problems. An estimated 1.4 million residents have been displaced by the 640-km-long reservoir forming behind it, which also flooded several important archaeological sites. And some hydrologists say that by trapping silt the dam could actually make downstream riverbanks more vulnerable to flooding.

Now, however, scientists say things are getting worse. The water quality of the Yangtze's tributaries is deteriorating rapidly, as the dammed river is less able to disperse pollutants effectively. The incidence of algae blooms has risen steadily since the reservoir was completed in 2006. The rising water is also causing rampant soil erosion, resulting in riverbank collapses and landslides along the shores of the Yangtze's tributaries. Professor Lei Hengshun, an environmentalist at Chongqing University who has devoted years to studying and preserving the Three Gorges ecosystem, says that if the water level of the reservoir reaches its planned height of 165 meters next year, it will bring tributaries of the Yangtze River under even greater environmental threat. "Now it's a good time to review the problems that have arisen," he says, "before a larger flooded area brings an even bigger impact on the tributaries."

The dam's environmental troubles go hand in hand with growing political issues. Li Peng, the dam's most ardent supporter, stepped down as Premier in 1998 and has little influence among China's current leadership. The recent storm of criticism the dam has garnered could be a result of political jockeying in the run-up to next week's Communist Party Congress, a five-yearly event in which the coming reshuffles of the Party's senior ranks are usually decided. But it's also possible that the criticism is a sign that the Chinese government has reached the point at which it must do something to address the country's serious — and growing — ecological concerns. It's been a turbulent year for China's environment. In May, a blue algae outbreak on picturesque Lake Tai in Wuxi city rendered tap water for 80% of the local families undrinkable for a week. In June, 10,000 citizens in the coastal city of Xiamen took to the streets to protest against the imminent construction of a new chemical plant. Pan Yue, Deputy Director of the State Environmental Protection Administration, said earlier this year that "environmental problems are posing a serious threat to the building of a harmonious society, and have become a significant economic, social and political issue."

At this point, it's highly unlikely that work will stop on the gigantic project; the dam is still on track to be completed by 2009. But with the current administration apparently at pains to seem more environmentally sensitive, it's possible that its worst effects can be dealt with. Lei, for one, thinks the government's new willingness to talk about the dam's problems means Beijing is trying hard to make the right call. "No one can guarantee the Three Gorges will be catastrophe-free," says Lei. But the chances are much greater that a catastrophe can be avoided "as long as the government is able to deal honestly with the situation."

China's Three Gorges Dam Under Fire - TIME
 

Ray

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Three Gorges Dam Causing Drought in Southwest China?

Chinese leaders say it is climate change, not to the Three Gorges Dam and other vast hydro-engineering works that causes China's worst drought in fifty years. Drought and shortage of drinking water in Sichuan province in southwest China has affected some 17 million people. Drought has also affected the flow of the Mekong River, where Chinese authorities have diverted water to build the Manwan and Dachaoshan dams. The drought in the Yangtze basin this summer have spurred speculations that the massive Three Gorges dam has upset the region's ecological balance and is causing the decrease in rainfall. Meanwhile, China's leaders are considering new huge, and controversial, water-diversion programs to transfer water from the south to the parched north and northwest. Work is under way on tunnels for the "South-North Water Transfer Project." The project's Central route is to carry water from the Yangtze River up north to Beijing. The Eastern route of the water transfer project is also under construction. Construction of the Western route—which is to tap into the Jinsha and other Tibetan plateau rivers and carry it to Qinghai province and other poor western areas—could start as early as 2010. Antoaneta Bezlova, "Environment-China: Gov't Denies Droughts Caused by Big Dams," Inter Press Service, 30 August 2006.
Link: ENVIRONMENT-CHINA: Gov't Denies Droughts Caused by Big Dams - IPS ipsnews.net.
Three Gorges Dam Causing Drought in Southwest China? | Worldwatch Institute
 

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