Tibet's largest water project completes damming

J20!

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:confused:

I was talking about the great situation of human rights in your country, that's it !
Every country has its flaws, no need to point them out everytime we achieve something in an attempt to belittle us. Plus, it is OUR country, the CHINESE people will do as we please in our territory, we are communists, we will not change because some guy in the western hemisphere says DEMOCRACY is the best form of governance, we decide our own fate, we are no one's lap dog.
 

SPIEZ

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Every country has its flaws, no need to point them out everytime we achieve something in an attempt to belittle us. Plus, it is OUR country, the CHINESE people will do as we please in our territory, we are communists, we will not change because some guy in the western hemisphere says DEMOCRACY is the best form of governance, we decide our own fate, we are no one's lap dog.
Democracy != Human Rights and nobody is jealous of China's growth!!

If you are communist doesn't mean you can't have fundamental rights !
 

cir

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Published: 18/10/2011 at 12:00 AM

THE WATER HEGEMON

Hydro-control turning China into dreaded hydra?

With Beijing controlling the sources of Asia's most important rivers, water has increasingly become a new political divide in China's relations with neighbours like India, Russia, Kazakhstan, Nepal and the Mekong River countries.

International discussion about China's rise has focused on its increasing trade muscle, growing maritime ambitions, and expanding capacity to project military power. One critical issue, however, usually escapes attention: China's rise as a hydro-hegemon with no modern historical parallel.

No other country has ever managed to assume such unchallenged riparian pre-eminence on a continent by controlling the headwaters of multiple international rivers and manipulating their cross-border flows. China, the world's biggest dam builder _ with slightly more than half of the approximately 50,000 large dams on the planet _ is rapidly accumulating leverage against its neighbours by undertaking massive hydro-engineering projects on transnational rivers.

Asia's water map fundamentally changed after the 1949 Communist victory in China. Most of Asia's important international rivers originate in territories that were forcibly annexed to the People's Republic of China. The Tibetan Plateau, for example, is the world's largest freshwater repository and the source of Asia's greatest rivers, including those that are the lifeblood for mainland China and South and Southeast Asia. Other such Chinese territories contain the headwaters of rivers like the Irtysh, Illy and Amur, which flow to Russia and Central Asia.

This makes China the source of cross-border water flows to the largest number of countries in the world. Yet China rejects the very notion of water sharing or institutionalised cooperation with downriver countries. Whereas riparian neighbours in Southeast and South Asia are bound by water pacts that they have negotiated between themselves, China does not have a single water treaty with any co-riparian country. Indeed, having its cake and eating it, China is a dialogue partner but not a member of the Mekong River Commission, underscoring its intent not to abide by the Mekong basin community's rules or take on any legal obligations.

Worse, while promoting multilateralism on the world stage, China has given the cold shoulder to multilateral cooperation among river-basin states. The lower-Mekong countries, for example, view China's strategy as an attempt to "divide and conquer". Although China publicly favours bilateral initiatives over multilateral institutions in addressing water issues, it has not shown any real enthusiasm for meaningful bilateral action. As a result, water has increasingly become a new political divide in the country's relations with neighbours like India, Russia, Kazakhstan, and Nepal.

China deflects attention from its refusal to share water, or to enter into institutionalised cooperation to manage common rivers sustainably, by flaunting the accords that it has signed on sharing flow statistics with riparian neighbours. These are not agreements to cooperate on shared resources, but rather commercial accords to sell hydrological data that other upstream countries provide free to downriver states.

In fact, by shifting its frenzied dam building from internal rivers to international rivers, China is now locked in water disputes with almost all co-riparian states. Those disputes are bound to worsen, given China's new focus on erecting mega-dams, best symbolised by its latest addition on the Mekong _ the 4,200-megawatt Xiaowan Dam, which dwarfs Paris's Eiffel Tower in height _ and a 38,000-megawatt dam planned on the Brahmaputra at Metog, close to the disputed border with India. The Metog Dam will be twice as large as the 18,300-megawatt Three Gorges Dam, currently the world's largest, construction of which uprooted at least 1.7 million Chinese.

In addition, China has identified another mega-dam site on the Brahmaputra at Daduqia, which, like Metog, is to harness the force of a nearly 3,000-metre drop in the river's height as it takes a sharp southerly turn from the Himalayan range into India, forming the world's longest and steepest canyon. The Brahmaputra Canyon _ twice as deep as the Grand Canyon in the United States _ holds Asia's greatest untapped water reserves.

The countries likely to bear the brunt of such massive diversion of waters are those located farthest downstream on rivers like the Brahmaputra and Mekong _ Bangladesh, whose very future is threatened by climate and environmental change, and Vietnam, a rice bowl of Asia. China's water appropriations from the Illy River threaten to turn Kazakhstan's Lake Balkhash into another Aral Sea, which has shrunk to less than half its original size.

In addition, China has planned the "Great Western Route", the proposed third leg of the Great South-North Water Diversion Project _ the most ambitious inter-river and inter-basin transfer programme ever conceived _ whose first two legs, involving internal rivers in China's ethnic Han heartland, are scheduled to be completed within three years.

The Great Western Route, centred on the Tibetan Plateau, is designed to divert waters, including from international rivers, to the Yellow River, the main river of water-stressed northern China, which also originates in Tibet.

With its industry now dominating the global hydropower-equipment market, China has also emerged as the largest dam builder overseas. From Pakistani-held Kashmir to Burma's troubled Kachin and Shan states, China has widened its dam building to disputed or insurgency-torn areas, despite local backlashes.

For example, units of the People's Liberation Army are engaged in dam and other strategic projects in the restive, Shia-majority region of Gilgit-Baltistan in Pakistan-held Kashmir. And China's dam building inside Burma to generate power for export to Chinese provinces has contributed to renewed bloody fighting recently, ending a 17-year ceasefire between the Kachin Independence Army and the Burmese government.

As with its territorial and maritime disputes with India, Vietnam, Japan and others, China is seeking to disrupt the status quo on international river flows. Persuading it to halt further unilateral appropriation of shared waters has thus become pivotal to Asian peace and stability. Otherwise, China is likely to emerge as the master of Asia's water taps, thereby acquiring tremendous leverage over its neighbours' behaviour.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Brahma Chellaney:rofl::rofl: is Professor of Strategic Studies at the Centre for Policy Research and the author of "Water: Asia's New Battleground." Project Syndicate, 2011.
 
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J20!

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Democracy != Human Rights and nobody is jealous of China's growth!!

If you are communist doesn't mean you can't have fundamental rights !
*chuckle*So you don't wish your cities were as clean and as modern as China's? Or your economy as large? Or your indegenous technology as par to ours? Phuleeeeeez, you could at least be honest. Everytime some new Chinese achievement is posted on this forums, even if its as innocent as building a damn for the water security of our many many citizens, or a world record setting, efficient HSR, you guys jump on it and attack, usually calling ait crap(like all our defence technologies)... So that's just down to what, being lovingly critisizing? *truing not to laugh. I'd be jealous too if the tables were turned, but probably with less hating.


Democracy=Human Rights? Uganda, Apartied South-Africa, etc. You're kidding right. And democracy is going so well for the millions of starving Indian peasents is it? I prefer a decisive less corrupt communist country. Dont try to make it black and white. Communism is not = evil. China takes care of its citizens better that democratic india can. And dont give me freedom bullshit. I'm not a prisoner, I'm the proud citizen of a burgeoning world power.
 

J20!

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Published: 18/10/2011 at 12:00 AM

THE WATER HEGEMON

Hydro-control turning China into dreaded hydra?

With Beijing controlling the sources of Asia's most important rivers, water has increasingly become a new political divide in China's relations with neighbours like India, Russia, Kazakhstan, Nepal and the Mekong River countries.

International discussion about China's rise has focused on its increasing trade muscle, growing maritime ambitions, and expanding capacity to project military power. One critical issue, however, usually escapes attention: China's rise as a hydro-hegemon with no modern historical parallel.

No other country has ever managed to assume such unchallenged riparian pre-eminence on a continent by controlling the headwaters of multiple international rivers and manipulating their cross-border flows. China, the world's biggest dam builder _ with slightly more than half of the approximately 50,000 large dams on the planet _ is rapidly accumulating leverage against its neighbours by undertaking massive hydro-engineering projects on transnational rivers.

Asia's water map fundamentally changed after the 1949 Communist victory in China. Most of Asia's important international rivers originate in territories that were forcibly annexed to the People's Republic of China. The Tibetan Plateau, for example, is the world's largest freshwater repository and the source of Asia's greatest rivers, including those that are the lifeblood for mainland China and South and Southeast Asia. Other such Chinese territories contain the headwaters of rivers like the Irtysh, Illy and Amur, which flow to Russia and Central Asia.

This makes China the source of cross-border water flows to the largest number of countries in the world. Yet China rejects the very notion of water sharing or institutionalised cooperation with downriver countries. Whereas riparian neighbours in Southeast and South Asia are bound by water pacts that they have negotiated between themselves, China does not have a single water treaty with any co-riparian country. Indeed, having its cake and eating it, China is a dialogue partner but not a member of the Mekong River Commission, underscoring its intent not to abide by the Mekong basin community's rules or take on any legal obligations.

Worse, while promoting multilateralism on the world stage, China has given the cold shoulder to multilateral cooperation among river-basin states. The lower-Mekong countries, for example, view China's strategy as an attempt to "divide and conquer". Although China publicly favours bilateral initiatives over multilateral institutions in addressing water issues, it has not shown any real enthusiasm for meaningful bilateral action. As a result, water has increasingly become a new political divide in the country's relations with neighbours like India, Russia, Kazakhstan, and Nepal.

China deflects attention from its refusal to share water, or to enter into institutionalised cooperation to manage common rivers sustainably, by flaunting the accords that it has signed on sharing flow statistics with riparian neighbours. These are not agreements to cooperate on shared resources, but rather commercial accords to sell hydrological data that other upstream countries provide free to downriver states.

In fact, by shifting its frenzied dam building from internal rivers to international rivers, China is now locked in water disputes with almost all co-riparian states. Those disputes are bound to worsen, given China's new focus on erecting mega-dams, best symbolised by its latest addition on the Mekong _ the 4,200-megawatt Xiaowan Dam, which dwarfs Paris's Eiffel Tower in height _ and a 38,000-megawatt dam planned on the Brahmaputra at Metog, close to the disputed border with India. The Metog Dam will be twice as large as the 18,300-megawatt Three Gorges Dam, currently the world's largest, construction of which uprooted at least 1.7 million Chinese.

In addition, China has identified another mega-dam site on the Brahmaputra at Daduqia, which, like Metog, is to harness the force of a nearly 3,000-metre drop in the river's height as it takes a sharp southerly turn from the Himalayan range into India, forming the world's longest and steepest canyon. The Brahmaputra Canyon _ twice as deep as the Grand Canyon in the United States _ holds Asia's greatest untapped water reserves.

The countries likely to bear the brunt of such massive diversion of waters are those located farthest downstream on rivers like the Brahmaputra and Mekong _ Bangladesh, whose very future is threatened by climate and environmental change, and Vietnam, a rice bowl of Asia. China's water appropriations from the Illy River threaten to turn Kazakhstan's Lake Balkhash into another Aral Sea, which has shrunk to less than half its original size.

In addition, China has planned the "Great Western Route", the proposed third leg of the Great South-North Water Diversion Project _ the most ambitious inter-river and inter-basin transfer programme ever conceived _ whose first two legs, involving internal rivers in China's ethnic Han heartland, are scheduled to be completed within three years.

The Great Western Route, centred on the Tibetan Plateau, is designed to divert waters, including from international rivers, to the Yellow River, the main river of water-stressed northern China, which also originates in Tibet.

With its industry now dominating the global hydropower-equipment market, China has also emerged as the largest dam builder overseas. From Pakistani-held Kashmir to Burma's troubled Kachin and Shan states, China has widened its dam building to disputed or insurgency-torn areas, despite local backlashes.

For example, units of the People's Liberation Army are engaged in dam and other strategic projects in the restive, Shia-majority region of Gilgit-Baltistan in Pakistan-held Kashmir. And China's dam building inside Burma to generate power for export to Chinese provinces has contributed to renewed bloody fighting recently, ending a 17-year ceasefire between the Kachin Independence Army and the Burmese government.

As with its territorial and maritime disputes with India, Vietnam, Japan and others, China is seeking to disrupt the status quo on international river flows. Persuading it to halt further unilateral appropriation of shared waters has thus become pivotal to Asian peace and stability. Otherwise, China is likely to emerge as the master of Asia's water taps, thereby acquiring tremendous leverage over its neighbours' behaviour.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Brahma Chellaney:rofl::rofl: is Professor of Strategic Studies at the Centre for Policy Research and the author of "Water: Asia's New Battleground." Project Syndicate, 2011.
An Indian article saying we are sucking Asia dry. A developed country of more than a billion people is going to need a LOT of resources, power, WATER, oil, everything. We're not sucking asia dry, asia benefits from us more that anyone. And as far as I know, China hasn't ran an asian country dry. Did you notice that the title is a question? " Pure fear mongering. Is the US going to destroy the world with its nuclear arsenal? " Yes they can, but will they? NO.
 

SPIEZ

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*chuckle*So you don't wish your cities were as clean and as modern as China's? Or your economy as large? Or your INDIGENOUS technology as par to ours? Phuleeeeeez, you could at least be honest. Everytime some new Chinese achievement is posted on this forums, even if its as innocent as building a damn for the water security of our many many citizens, or a world record setting, efficient HSR, you guys jump on it and attack, usually calling ait crap(like all our defence technologies)... So that's just down to what, being lovingly critisizing? *truing not to laugh. I'd be jealous too if the tables were turned, but probably with less hating.


Democracy=Human Rights? Uganda, Apartied South-Africa, etc. You're kidding right. And democracy is going so well for the millions of starving Indian peasents is it? I prefer a decisive less corrupt communist country. Dont try to make it black and white. Communism is not = evil. China takes care of its citizens better that democratic india can. And dont give me freedom bullshit. I'm not a prisoner, I'm the proud citizen of a burgeoning world power.
I have no problem with the Indian economy, which on a long run is considered to be more stable than China's.

Innocent Water Security Of your own people. What ever happened to the innocent water security of the innocent neighbouring people of innocent neighbouring countries???????????

I said Democracy != human rights which means democracy not equal to human rights !!!

If you are planning to reply next time, please reply related to what I pointed, no more BS of glorious China!
 

Naren1987

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Can we settle this debate?
India and China are like apples and Oranges, can't compare the two.
But I will add a few more things, China is NOT developing because of Communism, it's growing despite it.
It's growing for the same reason that fellow Sinosphere countries like Singapore, Hong Kong, Taiwan and even Malaysia(which has a huge Chinese minority) grew.
The Chinese believe in meritocracy, we believe in casteism.
 

Ray

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An Indian article saying we are sucking Asia dry. A developed country of more than a billion people is going to need a LOT of resources, power, WATER, oil, everything. We're not sucking asia dry, asia benefits from us more that anyone. And as far as I know, China hasn't ran an asian country dry. Did you notice that the title is a question? " Pure fear mongering. Is the US going to destroy the world with its nuclear arsenal? " Yes they can, but will they? NO.
Actually Asia does not benefit from China.

Cheap shooddy items are not really any help in the true sense.

If cheap shoddy items deprive us of the life element of water, then it is hardly help from China.

Even Myanmar which is a good friend of China has cancelled the dam that was to be built by China.
 
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The Messiah

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Every country has its flaws, no need to point them out everytime we achieve something in an attempt to belittle us. Plus, it is OUR country, the CHINESE people will do as we please in our territory, we are communists, we will not change because some guy in the western hemisphere says DEMOCRACY is the best form of governance, we decide our own fate, we are no one's lap dog.
China is not communist.
 

Falcon

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Its all about economic development. Chinese are taking necessary steps to secure its boundaries and her people and we should not be jealous about that. Look at their cities an their development. They are 20 years ahead of us and by the time we reach the position they are sitting at, GOD knows where they will be. I understand that they are not the best but they are at least trying to be one.

I don't want India to follow China but at least we can have a look at ourselves and try to improve things here. We must take people, nature, natural resources into account and plan our development. We must concentrate on education, discipline and a mindset favoring peace. We actually need to change the thinking process of our nation and when that happens, building big dams, spaceships, and others won't be a difficult task. We need hope...
 

Naren1987

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Its all about economic development. Chinese are taking necessary steps to secure its boundaries and her people and we should not be jealous about that. Look at their cities an their development. They are 20 years ahead of us and by the time we reach the position they are sitting at, GOD knows where they will be. I understand that they are not the best but they are at least trying to be one.

I don't want India to follow China but at least we can have a look at ourselves and try to improve things here. We must take people, nature, natural resources into account and plan our development. We must concentrate on education, discipline and a mindset favoring peace. We actually need to change the thinking process of our nation and when that happens, building big dams, spaceships, and others won't be a difficult task. We need hope...
This is what I call a 3 digit IQ post.
 

LTE-TDD

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Democracy != Human Rights and nobody is jealous of China's growth!!

If you are communist doesn't mean you can't have fundamental rights !
What right you are talking about, what right you personally have, tell me. So you seem prond of your have so-call India-type human right, right. But in west media, India human right is just a joke, a country full of people with daily income less than $2. Human right? what a world joke!

This following link well draw India's human right, check by yourself, Sir:

http://www.pucl.org/reports/National/poverty.htm

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/jul/22/india-human-rights

http://blog.iblf.org/2011/03/07/guest-blog-the-human-rights-and-business-discourse/
 
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cir

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human rights?

That's rich coming from a country where 4 yuan a day in major cities is considered living above poverty line。
 

Ray

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What right you are talking about, what right you personally have, tell me. So you seem prond of your have so-call India-type human right, right. But in west media, India human right is just a joke, a country full of people with daily income less than $2. Human right? what a world joke!

This following link well draw India's human right, check by yourself, Sir:

Poverty - the mother of all human rights violations

India's human rights record makes a farce of its democracy | Seema Sengupta | Comment is free | guardian.co.uk

Guest Blog: Poverty is a human rights violation in India | IBLF's blog on sustainability and CSR
human rights?

That's rich coming from a country where 4 yuan a day in major cities is considered living above poverty line。
Human rights is not measure by the economic clout of Man.

It is measured by the freedom to decide his fate without fetters placed by the authorities.
 

J20!

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I have no problem with the Indian economy, which on a long run is considered to be more stable than China's.

Innocent Water Security Of your own people. What ever happened to the innocent water security of the innocent neighbouring people of innocent neighbouring countries???????????

I said Democracy != human rights which means democracy not equal to human rights !!!

If you are planning to reply next time, please reply related to what I pointed, no more BS of glorious China!
Again with the baseless claims. Show me an asian country which has been sucked dry by Chinese Dams and water developments. You're only saying what you wish would happen.

I AM CHINESE, and I'm telling YOU, that my fundamental human rights have never been violated. I live comfortably in my country, we are hard woriking people working towards a better future for future generations, THAT'S IT.

And by the way, I didn't say China was "Glorious", you did (which says a lot about you), I just said I'm proud of our achievements and that you should stop hating.
 

J20!

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Actually Asia does not benefit from China.

Cheap shooddy items are not really any help in the true sense.

If cheap shoddy items deprive us of the life element of water, then it is hardly help from China.

Even Myanmar which is a good friend of China has cancelled the dam that was to be built by China.
Again, baseless hate. Asian economies from Korea, our largest trading partner Japan, Taiwan, Australia, Bangladesh, Pakistan, and as much as you hate it, INDIA benefit greatly from our growing economy. Japan and even the US sell more of their car brands in China than they do in their own countries. The whole world benefits from our growing middle class, AND our manufacturing industry, so please refrain from untrue and disrespectful statements like we only produce "shoddy" products. Thankyou

China produces everything from iPods to supercomputers from Chevrolet's to large container ships and super-tankers. I'll bet you that a lot of the things in your house are "made in China", maybe even the PC your using to post your comments.Those "cheap" products, have a target market, those who cannot afford our better quality products, like the millions of Indian peasents. Do you expect them to wear Gucci?

Next time, post facts, not uninformed insults.
 
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J20!

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Human rights is not measure by the economic clout of Man.

It is measured by the freedom to decide his fate without fetters placed by the authorities.
I'm CHINESE, are you saying I have no human rights? Contrary to your beliefs, the CCP's main concern is delivering a better life to Chinese citizens. Would a Lybia style revolution help us? Nope!We'd end up like them, with some sorry excuse for democracy whilst begging the world for handouts and letting western powers exploit us and our natural resources, just as they did to Iraq. Is the CCP oppressive to me and my family? Nope! Has the CCP pulled more people out of poverty in the last 30 years than any other govt in the world? YEP!

So yes, I'd rather be ruled by a communist government (which isn't a bad thing by any measure), than be one of the millions of YOUR citizens living in utter poverty.
 

SPIEZ

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Are you sure you have human right? What kind human right you have? India is famous about its corruption.
What right you are talking about, what right you personally have, tell me. So you seem prond of your have so-call India-type human right, right. But in west media, India human right is just a joke, a country full of people with daily income less than $2. Human right? what a world joke!

This following link well draw India's human right, check by yourself, Sir:

Poverty - the mother of all human rights violations

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisf...a-human-rights

http://blog.iblf.org/2011/03/07/gues...ess-discourse/
human rights?

That's rich coming from a country where 4 yuan a day in major cities is considered living above poverty line
:facepalm:

Why are you guys always going Off-Topic!
I was talking about the Human rights situation not the Economic situation. What does economy and corruption have to do with Human rights?Please do enlighten me on that.

In India people can protest for almost everything, right from the formation of a new state to a new country to even corruption.

Can you tell me if you can do that in your country ?????
 

SPIEZ

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human rights?

That's rich coming from a country where 4 yuan a day in major cities is considered living above poverty line。
So guys must be so starved of human rights that you can't differentiate between human rights and democracy, communism and economy.

No wonder whenever someone posts about human rights, you guys are talking about every other thing in the world.

I wouldn't be surprised if you talk about infrastructure in your next post.
 

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