Tiananmen anniversary: China arrests activists

no smoking

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well CCP is the one who fire the shot. but some the student leaders basically incite the protest to a much higher degree than necessary, ask student go up against armed troop while themself flee, and later flee to US.
Oh, those so called "student leaders" did far worse than that:
They encourged the residents of Beijing to defend them with bat and bricks, and themselves withdrew from Tiananmen square PEACEFULLY;
They put the youth like some of my classmates who were under 15 into the streets to do all the fighting while these 20 yeas old "Student leaders" hided behind safely;
Yes, CCP is the one who fire the shot. These student leaders were the ones triggering all of these. They want glories of their democray, they want publicity of their move, at the cost of others' blood.
 

Ray

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What is so nationalistic in my post?
Your anger at those who fleed to US.

If they not fleed, then they would have bled in Chinese jails and so they fleed and fled or they would be themselves dead!
 

amoy

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Re: China, the Ghosts of Tiananmen, and the Hard Landing

Now, if the Chinese economy cannot keep pace with the aspirations and the trends that have established itself in China, the CCP will have a huge problem.
A reciprocal question -
Will UPA, or DNA, or Congress or BJP or TMC or CPI or DMK have a huge problem if the Indian (or West Bengal or Tamil Nadu's ) economy cannot keep pace with the aspirations and the trends that have established itself in India (or WB or TN)?
 

Ray

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Re: China, the Ghosts of Tiananmen, and the Hard Landing

A reciprocal question -
Will UPA, or DNA, or Congress or BJP or TMC or CPI or DMK have a huge problem if the Indian (or West Bengal or Tamil Nadu's ) economy cannot keep pace with the aspirations and the trends that have established itself in India (or WB or TN)?
Good point and a good question.

The difference is that India does not claim to be bountiful in all respects.

China does.

At least that is the impression given by the Chinese posters.
 

amoy

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It's a simplistic view that CCP can stay in power as long as it manages to keep "economy" matching "aspirations". Thats not gonna happen as people's expectation are on the rise constantly, beyond economy. As a evidence KMT lost power after Taiwan's economy took off and multiparty democracy phased in (of course KMT regained power in later elections). CCP happens to cater for peoples "aspirations" in every "twist" and "turn" at different historical stages. It enforced land reform while defeating KMT. It industrialized China with Soviet Union's help. It liberalized economy with "opening" and "reform".

Sooner or later CCP would lose grip of power voluntarily or involuntarily and have to compete like KMT in Taiwan with other political parties. At this moment I say it's doing fine if measured against a set of Key Performance Index (KPI).

But when we look at India like a mirror for China. Ooooooooooops

U have
- religion based parties BJP
- region based parties, DMK
- dynastic politics, Cong.

Correct me if wrong.

I bet India will hv far more problems when u catch up with China in population, soon.
 

nimo_cn

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Your anger at those who fleed to US.

If they not fleed, then they would have bled in Chinese jails and so they fleed and fled or they would be themselves dead!
Anyone who has a the least sense of justice should be angered, my anger has nothing to with nationalism.

Several questions for you to ponder over.

!> How did those student leaders find out CPC was gonna take move before anyone else?
2>How did all of them succeed in escaping from Beijing and fleeing to America after their high-profile confrontation against CPC for almost a month?
3>Why didn't they inform the students they had summoned that CPC was gonna take move before they left, so that innocent lives could have been saved and tragedy been avoided?

So yes, i am angered.
 

no smoking

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Re: China, the Ghosts of Tiananmen, and the Hard Landing

Good point and a good question.

The difference is that India does not claim to be bountiful in all respects.

China does.

At least that is the impression given by the Chinese posters.
Give me an example that a chinese poster make such claim, except that fake chinese poster of course.

And since when CCP make such a claim. The fact is those CCP's newspapers used to give me an impression: China is going to collapse if we don't carry one the reform!
 

no smoking

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Your anger at those who fleed to US.

If they not fleed, then they would have bled in Chinese jails and so they fleed and fled or they would be themselves dead!
Oh, obviously, they have no problem asking others to bleed for their agenda.
 

Daredevil

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180,000 Commemorate 1989 Tiananmen Square Massacre in Hong Kong



PS: Chinese, if you can't see the video, then it means its censored in China.
 
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Ray

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But when we look at India like a mirror for China. Ooooooooooops

U have
- religion based parties BJP
- region based parties, DMK
- dynastic politics, Cong.

Correct me if wrong.

I bet India will hv far more problems when u catch up with China in population, soon.
Yes, we have all that, and that there is no doubt.

But we also have:

1. FREEDOM.
2. DEMOCRACY and the right to have all those political parties.
3, FREEDOM OF SPEECH, THOUGHT AND DEED.

Noiw turn the mirror and tell me what you see!
 

Ray

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Anyone who has a the least sense of justice should be angered, my anger has nothing to with nationalism.

Several questions for you to ponder over.

!> How did those student leaders find out CPC was gonna take move before anyone else?
2>How did all of them succeed in escaping from Beijing and fleeing to America after their high-profile confrontation against CPC for almost a month?
3>Why didn't they inform the students they had summoned that CPC was gonna take move before they left, so that innocent lives could have been saved and tragedy been avoided?

So yes, i am angered.
See the video, posted by Daredevil, of the Candlelight Congregation in Hong Kong to commemorate the Tienanmen Square massacre.

You will get the answer.

If you cannot see that video in China, because it is censored, again you will get the answer!
 

nimo_cn

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See the video, posted by Daredevil, of the Candlelight Congregation in Hong Kong to commemorate the Tienanmen Square massacre.

You will get the answer.

If you cannot see that video in China, because it is censored, again you will get the answer!
I have figured you have no answers

If you are unable to answer my questions, just say it. No need to direct me to that pointless video which has nothing to do with my questions.

For Chinese posters who come here, the so-called firewall may cause some convenience, but can never preclude us from accessing the sensetive materials you are refering to.

I have watched a documentary about June, 4th as early as in 2006, which was filmed by the activists you people admired and far more informative than that pathetic candlelight congregation. The best part of that documentary is that on the eve of June, 4th, ChaiLing(柴玲) fleed Tiananmen square, hiding in a foreign reporter's hotel room, where she was crying, saying she had done her best to save China, now she felt hopless and believed China was gonna collapse anyway. So touching!

Have you ever watched that documentary? I doubted.

Do you even know who ChaiLing is?
 

satish007

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nimo_cn, take it easy, protest should be a piece of cake, very easy to deal with, Indian do a lot everyday.
now China has improved the skill, get more police, so protestors are safe in China now.
forget 64, Chinese did not do very well. if they have deal with before and had more experience like this.
everyone would have a good end and even the police have chance to touch young female colleger breasts.
you must know, this kind of protest has became a funny game in Franch.

Chinese protesters --- too simple,want too much
Chinese police ---- playing fun
CCP --- too serious


totally don't know this can be funny.
BTW, is this a reason other guys dislike Chinese because they work too hard without humor and greedy.
 
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Ray

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I have figured you have no answers

If you are unable to answer my questions, just say it. No need to direct me to that pointless video which has nothing to do with my questions.

For Chinese posters who come here, the so-called firewall may cause some convenience, but can never preclude us from accessing the sensetive materials you are refering to.

I have watched a documentary about June, 4th as early as in 2006, which was filmed by the activists you people admired and far more informative than that pathetic candlelight congregation. The best part of that documentary is that on the eve of June, 4th, ChaiLing(柴玲) fleed Tiananmen square, hiding in a foreign reporter's hotel room, where she was crying, saying she had done her best to save China, now she felt hopless and believed China was gonna collapse anyway. So touching!

Have you ever watched that documentary? I doubted.

Do you even know who ChaiLing is?
Yes.

ChaiLing is one of the student leaders, who fled (not fleed) China.

I know about her from the Christian feed.

I have not watched the documentary. Is it that fascinatingly earthshaking?

Persecution of those who do not agree with the Communist Chinese Govt is almost a daily event and so, it is not always that one comes to know the latest.

As far as answering you, I did it.

But then maybe you did not understand.

or maybe I did not understand you in the similar manner I can't understand Kapil Dev since he has no past or present tense and his Grammar is unique.

Flee, Fled, Fleeing.

Doubt, Doubted, Doubting.
 
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Ray

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Though slightly OT, here is something about China as to how they behave in society.

Does China Turn You Into a Jerk?

You know you've done it (if you've been here long enough). Kept Grandma back when she tries to cut in front of you in KFC. Forced your way out of the subway car in a less than polite way to push your way through masses of people. Cursed at the shop keeper who grabbed your arm one too many times.

Things you might not have dreamed of before coming to China. But you do them to stand up for yourself and people are doing the same thing to you so it's okay, right?

You're a Stranger, You Don't Matter

This is the philosophy of many people in China – including many foreigners who have been here for a while. You can see it in the way people treat each other on the streets. Or with the bleeding bicyclist who isn't helped until the police come.

In China, if you're a stranger, you don't matter. This applies even more to Chinese people than foreigners – while as a foreigner you will be treated with slightly more respect than the next guy or girl, you will still encounter a lot of behavior that comes off as just plain rude.

Crossing the Line

If you've lived in China for any significant length of time, your thought process on what is or is not acceptable behavior to strangers will most likely change. If you've been here several years and haven't changed a bit, either you live in a sheltered world or you are a saint.

You also probably wouldn't question it if I told you that lowering your shoulder, intentionally ramming into someone, or cutting in line yourself is the behavior of a true jerk.

But such behavior begs the question – where is the line between jerk and normal? And how many people come to China as nice guys or girls and end up acting like jerks to strangers?

What Do You Think?

This post is more full of questions than answers – so it would be great if you could take a stab at this question below. I've got my own thoughts on it hinted at in the post above, but would rather hear your perspective first.

http://www.thechinaexpat.com/does-china-turn-you-into-a-jerk/
 

nimo_cn

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Yes.

ChaiLing is one of the student leaders, who fled (not fleed) China.

I know about her from the Christian feed.

I have not watched the documentary. Is it that fascinatingly earthshaking?

Persecution of those who do not agree with the Communist Chinese Govt is almost a daily event and so, it is not always that one comes to know the latest.

As far as answering you, I did it.

But then maybe you did not understand.

or maybe I did not understand you in the similar manner I can't understand Kapil Dev since he has no past or present tense and his Grammar is unique.

Flee, Fled, Fleeing.

Doubt, Doubted, Doubting.
So I am right, you never watched that documentary, which narrates the story of Tiananmen from the perspective of the students leaders.

I presume you also haven't read the CPC version of the story, a book officially published in 1990s.

Only the combination of both is gonna tell you what really had happened in 1989, but you have none.

Anyway, thanks for correcting my English, language obstacle has been constantly precluding me from taking the discussion further. Notwithstanding, I think I have made my points clear in the last several posts even with my broken English.

Your inability or reluctance to offer direct answers to my three simple questions indicates that you either have no idea what had happened or you just intentionally ignored what really had happened.
 

Oblaks

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So I am right, you never watched that documentary, which narrates the story of Tiananmen from the perspective of the students leaders.

I presume you also haven't read the CPC version of the story, a book officially published in 1990s.

Only the combination of both is gonna tell you what really had happened in 1989, but you have none.

Anyway, thanks for correcting my English, language obstacle has been constantly precluding me from taking the discussion further. Notwithstanding, I think I have made my points clear in the last several posts even with my broken English.

Your inability or reluctance to offer direct answers to my three simple questions indicates that you either have no idea what had happened or you just intentionally ignored what really had happened.
I have'nt read or seen any of those docu but from a concrete perspective, how could an intentional civilian massacre be justified. And could it be that the activist leaders planned or foresaw the massacre? I don't think so. Those incidents should be untoward and lead to the unexpected, that is, the CCP instead of containing the rallyists instead massacres them. I don't see any reason to defend the CCP for that.
 

Ray

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All I know that the massacre happened.

It is not denied by the CCP given the footage available with the western media.

Thew CCP can ascribe the blame to anyone and that is not material.

What is material is that the CCP quells dissensions in a high handed manner.

Check it anywhere there has been issues in China.

Be it Tibet, XInjiang or Inner Mongolia.
 

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