Thousands of Hong Kong students start week-long boycott

Discussion in 'China' started by Ray, Sep 23, 2014.

  1. Illusive

    Illusive Senior Member Senior Member

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    I am willing to listen/read your credible sources, because apparently we are blinded and you know the kashmir issue better than us, but in a relevant thread not this, do tag me :thumb:

    Also I'd prefer you watch this too, a nuetral perspective.

     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 10, 2015
  2. amoy

    amoy Senior Member Senior Member

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    the "one country two systems" formula has been a fiasco or at least quite outdated. what was applicable under past circumstances may not remain valid now thus shall be reformed. HK shall be as much integrated into China as Goa into India instead of such high autonomy.

    both HK and Macau owe their prosperity to their attachment to the rise of mainland China, in comparison to Gibraltar and Goa in similar contexts.

    economically HKD (Hong Kong dollar) presently is pegged to USD. however in face of volatility and a changed pattern in the world economy it shall be hooked to a basket of currencies incl. Euro, JPY and RMB, or simply RMB only towards abolishing HKD ultimately. HK economy has to be further integrated into the economic powerhouse of the Pearl River Delta with peers Guangzhou, Shenzhen and so on. the sea bridge linking Macau, Zhuhai and HK is bound to expedite this process. otherwise it'll continue to lose its dynamics and competitive edges against Shanghai and Singapore as a world class financial hub with its economy being hijacked by property developers and monopoly by a few tycoons.

    politically, either way - 1. Beijing resumes the British way i.e. to appoint the governor (Chief Exec.) from the central plus most of legislators rather than through local elections. or 2. stick to the current proposition of direct election of the chief with candidature pre-screened by the nomination committee . gradually when the central gains more confidence in HK the procedures may be modified such as lower the threshold of min. 50% approval needed for nomination. 1 is too radical a regression hence 2 may be the basis that the opposition can bargain with the Central on, to tip a balance btwn ONE country and TWO systems.

    in contrast Macau is rather a success in the formula since both the Central and the SAR can see eye to eye , plus the fact Macau is less strategically important.

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    Last edited: Oct 3, 2014
  3. nimo_cn

    nimo_cn Senior Member Senior Member

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    Hong Kong's "Occupy Central" is US-backed Sedition

    http://journal-neo.org/2014/10/01/hong-kong-s-occupy-central-is-us-backed-sedition/

    The goal of the US in Hong Kong is clear – to turn the island into an epicenter of foreign-funded subversion with which to infect China’s mainland more directly.

    Protesters of the “Occupy Central” movement in Hong Kong shout familiar slogans and adopt familiar tactics seen across the globe as part of the United States’ immense political destabilization and regime change enterprise. Identifying the leaders, following the money, and examining Western coverage of these events reveal with certainty that yet again, Washington and Wall Street are busy at work to make China’s island of Hong Kong as difficult to govern for Beijing as possible.

    Naming Names: Who is Behind “Occupy Central?”

    Several names are repeatedly mentioned amid coverage of what is being called “Occupy Central,” the latest in a long line of US-engineered color revolutions, and part of America’s vast, ambitious global geopolitical reordering which started in earnest in 2011 under the guise of the so-called “Arab Spring.”

    Benny Tai, a lecturer of law at the University of Hong Kong, is cited by various sources across the Western media as the primary organizer – however there are many “co-organizers” mentioned alongside him. The South China Morning Post in an article titled, “Occupy Central is on: Benny Tai rides wave of student protest to launch movement (1),” mentions most of them (emphasis added):

    Political heavyweights including Civic Party chairwoman Audrey Eu Yuet-mee, former head of the Catholic diocese Cardinal Jospeh Zen Zi-kiun and Democratic Party founding chairman Martin Lee Chu-ming addressed the crowd.

    The Post also mentions (emphasis added):

    Jimmy Lai Chi-Ying, the embattled boss of Next Media who is under investigation by the Independent Commission Against Corruption over donations to pan-democrat politicians, said he arrived immediately after a call from Martin Lee Chu-ming.

    Benny Tai regularly attends US State Department, National Endowment for Democracy (NED) and its subsidiary the National Democratic Institute (NDI) funded and/or organized forums. Just this month, he spoke at a Design Democracy Hong Kong (NDI-funded) conference on political reform. He is also active at the University of Hong Kong’s Centre for Comparative and Public Law (CCPL) - also funded by NDI. CCPL’s 2013-2014 annual report lists Benny Tai as attending at least 3 of the center’s functions, as well as heading one of the center’s projects.

    Martin Lee, Jimmy Lai, and Joseph Zen are all confirmed as both leaders of the “Occupy Central” movement and collaborators with the US State Department. Martin Lee, founding chairman of the Democratic Party in Hong Kong, would even travel to the United States this year to conspire directly with NED as well as with politicians in Washington. Earlier this year, Lee would even take to the stage of NED’s event “Why Democracy in Hong Kong Matters.” Joining him at the NED-organized event was Anson Chan, another prominent figure currently supporting the ongoing unrest in Hong Kong’s streets.

    Media mogul Jimmy Lai was reported to have met with Neo-Con and former president of the World Bank, Paul Wolfowitz in June 2014. China Daily would report in an article titled, “Office opposes foreign interference in HK,” that:

    A special edition of Eastweek showed Lai, owner of Next Media and Apple Daily, meeting Paul Wolfowitz, a former US deputy secretary of defense in George W. Bush’s administration. The pair met on Lai’s private yacht for five hours in late May.

    Wolfowitz, who was also president of the World Bank between 2005 and 2007, is well-known in the US for his neo-conservative views and belief in a unilateral foreign policy. Wolfowitz also held the post of under secretary of defense between 1989 and 1993. He is currently a visiting scholar at the American Enterprise Institute.

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  4. nimo_cn

    nimo_cn Senior Member Senior Member

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    The West’s Long War With China

    “Occupy Central” is just one of many ongoing gambits the US is running against Beijing. A visit to the US NED site reveals not one, but four pages dedicated to meddling in China’s internal politics. NED’s activities are divided among China in general, Tibet, Xinjiang - referred to as “East Turkistan” as it is called by violent separatists the US backs - and Hong Kong. All of NED’s funding goes to politically subversive groups aligned to and dependent on the West, while being hostile toward Beijing. They range from “monitoring” and “media” organizations, to political parties as well as fronts for violent extremists. And as impressive as this network of political subversion is, it itself is still but a single part of a greater geopolitical agenda to encircle, contain, and eventually collapse the political order of Beijing and replace it with one favorable to Wall Street and Washington.

    As early as the Vietnam War, with the so-called “Pentagon Papers” released in 1969, it was revealed that the conflict was simply one part of a greater strategy aimed at containing and controlling China. While the US would ultimately lose the Vietnam War and any chance of using the Vietnamese as a proxy force against Beijing, the long war against Beijing would continue elsewhere.

    This containment strategy would be updated and detailed in the 2006 Strategic Studies Institute report “String of Pearls: Meeting the Challenge of China’s Rising Power across the Asian Littoral” where it outlines China’s efforts to secure its oil lifeline from the Middle East to its shores in the South China Sea as well as means by which the US can maintain American hegemony throughout the Indian and Pacific Ocean. The premise is that, should Western foreign policy fail to entice China into participating in the “international system” as responsible stakeholders, an increasingly confrontational posture must be taken to contain the rising nation.

    This includes funding, arming, and backing terrorists and proxy regimes from Africa, across the Middle East, Central Asia, Southeast Asia, and even within China’s territory itself. Documented support of these movements not only include Xinjiang separatists, but also militants and separatists in Baluchistan, Pakistan where the West seeks to disrupt a newly christened Chinese port and pipeline, as well as the machete wielding supporters of Aung San Suu Kyi in Myanmar’s Rakhine state - yet another site the Chinese hope to establish a logistical hub.

    Meddling in Thailand and stoking confrontation between China and an adversarial front including Vietnam, the Philippines, and Japan are also components of this spanning containment policy.

    Whatever grievances those among “Occupy Central’s” mobs may have, they have forfeited both their legitimacy and credibility, not to mention any chance of actually achieving progress. Indeed, as the US-engineered “Arab Spring” has illustrated, nothing good will come of serving insidious foreign interests under the guise of “promoting democracy.” The goal of “Occupy Central” is to make Hong Kong ungovernable at any cost, especially at the cost of the people living there – not because that is the goal of the witless though well-intentioned participants being misled by Washington’s troupe of seditious proxies, but because that is the goal of those funding and ultimately directing the movement from abroad.

    Tony Cartalucci, Bangkok-based geopolitical researcher and writer, especially for the online magazine “New Eastern Outlook”.

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  5. SADAKHUSH

    SADAKHUSH Senior Member Senior Member

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    Thanks for your time. Have a wonderful and peaceful day. I do not see any point to take our discussion any further. I do not get paid for wasting my time with individuals like you who distort the facts.
     
  6. jon88

    jon88 Regular Member

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    Oh, how convenient, push the burden of proof to me. I didn't say I know the Kashmir issue better than you....and who is "us"? All I am saying that is to keep an open mind and see the issue from both perspectives.

    I am sorry the Kashmir issue is not my point of interest at this point in time, so, I didn't watch the video. Please explain to me the video and who made the video before I deem it worthy of my time to watch becos I am more interested in the subject of HongKong.
    I don't think I would look for articles or sources, both in favour and against your views which I have read. Looking for archives for sources accessed before can be a bitch and time consuming.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 10, 2015
  7. Illusive

    Illusive Senior Member Senior Member

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    I am the only one giving proofs while you are only giving your opinion. I agree open mindedness is needed, thats why i was giving you a neutral perspective of Kashmir issue endorsed by a pakistani on how pak army is using terrorism as tool to destabilize kashmir under the umbrella of nuclear protection and the author has a deep understanding of pak politics and dynamics.

    No problem, i am sure in time you'll realize the truth, i mean if few educated pakistanis and americans can understand why cant an Indian living in malaysia:).
     
    Ashutosh Lokhande likes this.
  8. Compersion

    Compersion Senior Member Senior Member

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    I think you are understanding what is really going on. You know the risks and positions.

    You are trying to justify one country and two systems being terminated and also the Hong kong constitution and joint declaration being void.

    The only problem with the above is the role of UK (and their ally usa). Will PRC return Hong kong Island and Kowloon because of failure of PRC to comply with the agreements that was internationally recognised. Forget what that will do to PRC prestige and image.

    I presume you try and deal with such a situation and bring in Goa and Gilbrator. A invasion of hone kong (after declaring the Hong kong constitution and agreements with uk void). That's Imaginative but possible?? Is it crazy ... Further the Hong kong constitution and agreements with uk have been upheld by PRC.

    Why did PRC sign the agreement with uk if PRC was going to invade Hong kong. Because Hong kong Island and Kowloon belong to uk before 1997.

    Why not now ask uk to replace PRC in Hong kong now and ask them to comply with Hong kong constitution under one country two systems with uk being in place of PRC. That way PRC can say it is a different territory and deal with it like they did for 150+ years. It will also not require such drastic changes like you suggest by removing hk dollar peg and also economic anhilation by PRC of Hong Kong.

    Why not gift Hong kong to Taiwan and tell them it is a way for integration into PRC.

    Why not comply with one country two systems and comply with Hong kong constitution. It's only need to done until 2047.

    PRC has obligations under the Hong kong constitution and it is there for everyone to see how they are dealing with it. If PRC keeps delaying and avoiding it will make Hong kong people more reactive,

    If PRC resolves this in a pragmatic way and Hong kong people are happy there will be a economic rocket boom in next few months and one not seen of before.

    I don't think it will be hard for PRC to resolve this in a good way for all. A nation that has had Olympics, people in space and unsc member will have the intuition and ability to resolve this that will make Hong kone people happy and the world impress by PRC. Singapore and Shanghai don't have everything like Hong kong does and what it does for PRC.

    ***** added later

    I went and read about Macau. It's similar to Hong kong.

    http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macau

    What's happening in Hong kong can happen in Macau. population of Macau is small and also importance is not like Hong Kong but there is huge investment from overseas and gambling is a vice apparently in PRC.

    Sometimes I wonder what PRC was thinking and miscalculation when they signed the agreements with UK and Portugal.
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2014
  9. Compersion

    Compersion Senior Member Senior Member

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    Fascinating article thanks for sharing. But I am sure it's not that basic like it says but more advanced and well planned according to such dimensions. There is no call for independence but the danger is if it becomes a home grown large movement and the public understand the principle of non violence and civil disobedience (which I feel is difficult for many to understand truly). The protestors are being taught it seems.

    That would be huge danger to PRC and one can see the reason why threat of greater violence is being planted. Also probably not wise to call a spade a spade now and everyone is playing tactics but deal with Hong kong like the person that guided PRC (deng xia ping) to sign the agreement with UK would do. I have a feeling CCP will give a good solution that will make Hong kong people happy. The legacy of many PRC leaders is there.

    Not many say this but prC had done well for past 17 years and many people have proposer including many non-Chinese and many mnc. But who knows what everyone is thinking now and what are the areas where they can agree and not agree.
     
  10. Compersion

    Compersion Senior Member Senior Member

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    Why not offer to Hong kong the dengs six points:

    One-China Principle_Taiwan Affairs Office of the State Council PRC

    The above has been proposed to Taiwan why not Hong kong, The ultimate aim is Taiwan for prC and the holy grail ... Why not test it in Hong kong and Macau first. Isn't what the plan was by deng xia ping, the sar of Hong kong and Macau is like (draft version of) dengs six points, it can be made better to show to Taiwan.

    A difference is that Taiwan does not have a land boundary with prC.
     
  11. nimo_cn

    nimo_cn Senior Member Senior Member

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    I don't get paid, I am merely stating fact.

    You cant deal with the fact, don't blame others.

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  12. Rushil51

    Rushil51 Regular Member

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    Follow @melissakchan on Twitter for updates.
     
  13. SADAKHUSH

    SADAKHUSH Senior Member Senior Member

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    You are not stating the facts but stating what suits your thinking and do not waste my or your time by repeating your views over and over again.
     
  14. s002wjh

    s002wjh Senior Member Senior Member

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    as the protestor block highway, local road, business shops, residential area, and fiance build, local resident are start to piss off now. there are incidents where local HKoner clash with the protestor now. few week from now, the protestor will lose compelete support from HK resident if they keep occupy business district.
     
  15. badguy2000

    badguy2000 Respected Member Senior Member

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    most chinese common keep indifferent to the protest. while most chinese benefit from Ccp's rule and pay more attention to vacation and wage salary than vote, such a protest is destined to fail.
     
  16. ice berg

    ice berg Senior Member Senior Member

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    That is just BS. China would have Hongkong back one way or another. That is like claiming that India is something that UK can give away.
    The reason Hongkong got such a good deal back then was because the business community there have supported and invested in the mainland.


    My regrets over Hong Kong by Lady Thatcher - Telegraph


    In her first interview for almost five years, the former prime minister has revealed her disappointment at failing to persuade Deng Xiaoping, the former Chinese premier, to let Britain extend its lease on the colony.
    In a rare dropping of her guard, she admits to feeling "sad" when, seven years after she had left office in 1990, Britain's and Hong Kong's 145-year relationship ended, bringing down the final curtain on the British Empire.
    "What I wanted was a continuation of British administration," she says in the radio interview, to be broadcast later this month.
    "But when this proved impossible, I saw the opportunity to preserve most of what was unique to Hong Kong through applying Mr Deng's [one country, two systems] idea to our circumstances."

    The iron lady herself admitted that it was impossible not to end the lease, and we hear some indian claim otherwise for your former master? How droll.

    How Mrs Thatcher Lost Hong Kong: Ten years ago, fired up by her triumph in the Falklands war, Margaret Thatcher flew to Peking for a last-ditch attempt to keep Hong Kong under British rule - only to meet her match in Deng Xiaoping. Two years later sh

    Belatedly, Thatcher had taken advice from diplomats whose logic she respected - Youde, and Sir Percy Cradock, Britain's Ambassador in Peking. They told her to expect that China would press for a resumption of the whole of Hong Kong in 1997; and that Peking wanted to turn Hong Kong into a 'special zone' of China, where the practice of capitalism would be permitted. They also warned her that Britain's hold on Hong Kong was more tenuous in practical terms than a reading of the 19th-century treaties might suggest.
    Though Hong Kong Island and Kowloon had been ceded to Britain 'in perpetuity', there was no physical border between these ceded portions and the New Territories, and no way in which Britain could defend or sustain the ceded portions if China wanted to take them back together with the New Territories.

    So kindly take your BS somewhere else when your former master knows there is nothing they could do in 97. They got Hongkong a good deal, not because of them, but because the effort of the Hongkong business community.
     
  17. Compersion

    Compersion Senior Member Senior Member

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    The business community has got Hong kong good deal ... Please explain and give sources. The business community was the ones that got the promise and language in constitution of Hong kong that allows people to protest , free speech and even vote in elections that is unheard of in prC. What's that got to do with business community, ->. In fact one would imagine Hong kong business community are known to be clear and direct and won't have language that is flexible in their contracts,

    Also have you eleven read the article you provided. Please read it and the juice is near the end,

    How Mrs Thatcher Lost Hong Kong: Ten years ago, fired up by her triumph in the Falklands war, Margaret Thatcher flew to Peking for a last-ditch attempt to keep Hong Kong under British rule - only to meet her match in Deng Xiaoping. Two years later sh

    She could not get the lease extended on the areas that were on lease. But what about Hong Kong Island and Kowloon on the areas where UK owned the land perpetually that is where the opportunity came to create a special administration region with different constitution and agreement between UK prC and Hong kong people. The UK gave up Hong kong island and Kowloon by taking promise in writing from prC in writing that was submitted to the United nations,

    I might talk bs according to you but what you say is not truth. No problem.

    If you were saying UK gave up Hong kong too easily that can be communicated in a better way. I am sure UK understood that Hong kong Island and Kowloon was not easy to manage but it does not say anywhere that it was impossible. Also UK And Hong kong Island and Kowloon were supported according to international law.

    Yep they eventually did transfer sovereignty over Hong kong Island andl Kowloon And it is undeniable they got a agreement and constitution of Hong kong that entitles the people of Hong kong to free speech, right to protest and even vote in elections for 50 years that was and is unheard of on prC territory and in agreement with CCP.

    These agreements and constituion also created requirements on parliament and election of leader and language that was undeniable open to conflict creation. The UK had to present this to their own parliament and people on why they are giving up Hong kong Island and Kowloon, and the reason is obvious, and it is playing out now,

    when you say that Hong kong would have been taken back one way another ... Please remember:

    You are saying that CCP Would have invade hong kong Island and Kowloon ... It's fine to be combative but please speak with reason.

    Last time I checked CCP and Prc do not claim that they are habitual failed state that does not honor agreements and follow I ternational law,

    What UK (of which India was a colony until 1945) has done with CCP has created an area that is on its border and having great autonomy and being labeled special that the people of prC are not even provided the same,

    People can call that bs but even the CCP is having trouble dealing with it.

    many say India experience something similar and its called partition, and we deal with its pain even till today. But India knew what they were doing.

    Do you know what CCP is doing. Why did they sign the agreement and give such freedoms and rights to Hong kong and Macau by way of their constitutions.
    Until 2047 prC has to manage.

    Also I know that the intellectuals in CCP that manage Hong kong are not like you. They know the truth and are pragmatic and more in tune with the business community of Hong kong,
     
  18. tramp

    tramp Senior Member Senior Member

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    Yes, CCP benefits more by its rule over the people of China than do the people from CCP. Your statement shows that CCP is not the people and people are not the CCP. Shows how brain dead people can become through constant indoctrination.
    No issues with your statement Occupy HK is destined to fail. Who would imagine the mainland's farm animals to rise against the keepers?

     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2014
  19. s002wjh

    s002wjh Senior Member Senior Member

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    what? sound like you just cant take other ppls opinons, most chinese choose stability, democracy is great but without stability/economy its nothing. china see soviet split as best evidence of instability. when most chinese has better lives comparable to japanese/westerner then they will ask democracy. political reform is inevitable in china, just matter of time, but before that china will only has small political changes.
     
  20. Compersion

    Compersion Senior Member Senior Member

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    The Chinese look to history of west and east Germany "reunification" and not the Soviet Union reorganisation,

    East Germany - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2014

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