Thousands of Hong Kong students start week-long boycott

tramp

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The question is how long the slave drivers in Beijing can allow such protests to go on without damaging their authority over the mainland youth (at least in the cities)? I am expecting a crackdown sooner than later.

Anyone can live anywhere.

But then can a coiled tail be made straight?

The Mainland Chinese will home on to anywhere to gleefully escape the Communist regime which stifle, suffocate and is a Police State representation........eve to Timbuctoo or Burkina Faso, let alone HK.
 

Dhairya Yadav

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i firmly believe that even though right now everything is calm, one day will again arrive when China will be forced to chose which path they want- communist or democracy. You cannot run a country by oppresion, crackdowns for long. The oppressed will say 'enough is enough' .
 

Ray

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The question is how long the slave drivers in Beijing can allow such protests to go on without damaging their authority over the mainland youth (at least in the cities)? I am expecting a crackdown sooner than later.
It will surely happen.

Some western media reports talk about another Tienanmen Square, but I doubt it.

But surely, the Communists will notl accept such stuff since it can have repercussions in other areas on the Mainland as also in the rebellious areas of Tibet and Xinjiang.
 

Ray

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those hotheaded teens are the people who are ready to do anything to attain their goals. If you try to supress them, you will do the biggest mistake you can do. You try to ignore them, another mistake. Adults are more attentive to their social image, they are reluctant to take any action against injustice until its too late. In these cases, we students take the matter in our own hands. Why should we risk our future due to your reluctance?
You are right.

However, one must remember the Pavlovian Experiment of Conditioned Dogs.

The concept of classical conditioning is studied by every entry-level psychology student, so it may be surprising to learn that the man who first noted this phenomenon was not a psychologist at all. Ivan Pavlov was a noted Russian physiologist who went on to win the 1904 Nobel Prize for his work studying digestive processes. It was while studying digestion in dogs that Pavlov noted an interesting occurrence – his canine subjects would begin to salivate whenever an assistant entered the room.

In his digestive research, Pavlov and his assistants would introduce a variety of edible and non-edible items and measure the saliva production that the items produced. Salivation, he noted, is a reflexive process. It occurs automatically in response to a specific stimulus and is not under conscious control. However, Pavlov noted that the dogs would often begin salivating in the absence of food and smell. He quickly realized that this salivary response was not due to an automatic, physiological process.

The Development of Classical Conditioning Theory

Based on his observations, Pavlov suggested that the salivation was a learned response. The dogs were responding to the sight of the research assistants' white lab coats, which the animals had come to associate with the presentation of food. Unlike the salivary response to the presentation of food, which is an unconditioned reflex, salivating to the expectation of food is a conditioned reflex.

Pavlov then focused on investigating exactly how these conditioned responses are learned or acquired. In a series of experiments, Pavlov set out to provoke a conditioned response to a previously neutral stimulus. He opted to use food as the unconditioned stimulus, or the stimulus that evokes a response naturally and automatically. The sound of a metronome was chosen to be the neutral stimulus. The dogs would first be exposed to the sound of the ticking metronome, and then the food was immediately presented.

After several conditioning trials, Pavlov noted that the dogs began to salivate after hearing the metronome. "A stimulus which was neutral in and of itself had been superimposed upon the action of the inborn alimentary reflex," Pavlov wrote of the results. "We observed that, after several repetitions of the combined stimulation, the sounds of the metronome had acquired the property of stimulating salivary secretion." In other words, the previously neutral stimulus (the metronome) had become what is known as a conditioned stimulus that then provoked a conditioned response (salivation).

The Impact of Pavlov's Research

Pavlov's discovery of classical conditioning remains one of the most important in psychology's history. In addition to forming the basis of what would become behavioral psychology, the conditioning process remains important today for numerous applications, including behavioral modification and mental health treatment. Classical conditioning is often used to treat phobias, anxiety and panic disorders.

One interesting example of the practical use of classical conditioning principles is the use of taste aversions to prevent coyotes from preying on domestic livestock. A conditioned taste aversion occurs when a neutral stimulus (eating some type of food) is paired with an unconditioned response (becoming ill after eating the food). Unlike other forms of classical conditioning, this type of conditioning does not require multiple pairings in order for an association to form. In fact, taste aversions generally occur after just a single pairing. Ranchers have found useful ways to put this form of classical conditioning to good use to protect their herds. In one example, mutton was injected with a drug that produces severe nausea. After eating the poisoned meat, coyotes then avoided sheep herds rather than attack them.

While Pavlov's discovery of classical conditioning formed an essential part of psychology's history, his work continues to inspire further research today. Between the years 1997 and 2000, more than 220 articles appearing in scientific journals cited Pavlov's early research on classical conditioning. While Pavlov may not have been a psychologist, his contributions to psychology have help make the discipline what it is today and will likely continue to shape our understanding of human behavior for years to come.

Pavlov's Dogs & the Discovery of Classical Conditioning
 

Dhairya Yadav

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You are right.

However, one must remember the Pavlovian Experiment of Conditioned Dogs.
sorry to say sir, but i cant grasp onto what you are trying to say. Can you please elaborate?
Im not saying we students should start an uprising whenever we are in disagreement of something, but sometimes, the actions are valid, like the situation in HK.
 

Ray

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sorry to say sir, but i cant grasp onto what you are trying to say. Can you please elaborate?
Im not saying we students should start an uprising whenever we are in disagreement of something, but sometimes, the actions are valid, like the situation in HK.
It means that anyone can be conditioned to follow reflexes and being deprived of the faculty of using their own intelligence and the power of analysis.

The Communist Party of China (CPC or CCP) has conditioned them to applaud and celebrate anything and everything that is handed out by the CCP, even if it goes against the concept of individual freedom, freedom of thought or freedom of speech.

You will notice our worthies from China are only concerned about their economic well being and money. The CCP has conditioned them to believe that money and financial well being is the sole soul support to happiness and well being, even if their minds and actions are held captive by the CCP and they made to react like robots.

Chinese Communist citizens are like Long John Silver's parrot which is trained and conditioned to say only the same thing "Pieces of Eight' when the Parrot hears humans talking.

Totally conditioned.

The experiment of the Pavlovian Dogs indicates scientifically this phenomenon and how it is achieved.





I would like to add that the Chinese have historically always been people who react to conditioned reflexes.

Check the Chinese Theory of Legalism.

In the philosophy of Lord Shang, the idea is held that, in an orderly state, "law abolishes law" and "words abolish words" the purpose of law being accomplished it even falls into disuse.

Legalist currents compounded into administrative tradition and necessity, and continued to influence or determine Chinese political, administrative and bureaucratic structure and practice thereafter, though often masked by Confucianism

The philosophy might be summarized as using following three tools to govern subjects:

Fa (法; p 'fǎ', lit. 'law'): The law code must be clearly written and made public. All people under the ruler were equal before the law. Laws should reward those who obey them and punish accordingly those who dare to break them. Thus it is guaranteed that actions taken are systematically predictable. In addition, the system of law, not the ruler, ran the state, a statement of "rule of law". If the law is successfully enforced, even a weak ruler will be strong.

Shu (術; p 'shù', lit. 'method'): Special tactics and 'secrets' are to be employed by the ruler to make sure others don't take over control of the state. Especially important is that no one can fathom the ruler's motivations, and thus no one can know which behaviour might help them get ahead, other than following the laws.

Shi (勢; p 'shì', lit.'legitimacy'): It is the position of the ruler, not the ruler himself or herself, that holds the power. Therefore, analysis of the trends, the context, and the facts are essential for a real ruler.

That is why the Han people, no matter where they are in the world, has this Han mentality of Legalism haunting their thoughts and they sacrifice the wafting and pleasant breeze of freedom and democracy for the concept that the Chinese Govt can do no wrong.

The Hong Kong people, on the other hand, away from the concept of Legalism under the British rule are less prone to accept the idea of Legalism without debate.
 
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tramp

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No Tiananmen Sq this time around because unlike in 1989, there is better crowd control tech available and Chinese authorities themselves are sensitive to world opinion esp in the times of social media.... so let us see how they will react. React they must.

It will surely happen.

Some western media reports talk about another Tienanmen Square, but I doubt it.

But surely, the Communists will notl accept such stuff since it can have repercussions in other areas on the Mainland as also in the rebellious areas of Tibet and Xinjiang.
 

Dhairya Yadav

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very nice explanation Ray Sir. didnt expect it to be this elaborate :p . But now I understand.
 
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jouni

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Maybe Putin and Spetsnaz can consult Chinese in this issue. Crimea all over again...just blame it on the West backed Nazis. Somehow I feel that even the Chinese ( nothing against them ) would fall for that.
 

SADAKHUSH

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I am watching two historic events at the same time. The first is celebration of welcome party for a leader from biggest democratic country in the world on the soil of a country with the longest democratic rule in the world and second is repressive force of CCP thugs to silence the democratic rights of Hong Kongers as one of the poster on this forum. We should all support this movement till they achieve their goals.
 

nimo_cn

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Well, the Chinese central government seems extremely cool with it, isn't it?

The event will not become another tiananmen as some are suggesting, people should perish that thought. Unlike beijing, HK is a city marginalized from the mainland. whatever the result of this so called democratic movement will be, successful or failed, it wont affect the political dynamic in mainland, not to mention it's bound to fail.

neither will it have much impact on Chinese economy.

If the chaos continues, HK will pay a big price. HK's status as a financial hub in Asia has already been weakened by intense competition from shanghai and Singapore. Frequent violent political street movements are gonna further reduce the confidence of potential investors.

CCP is doing the right thing by staying out of it and just observing. let the students ruin HK. When HK loses its economy advantages over mainland, everything shall go back to peace.

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nimo_cn

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I am watching two historic events at the same time. The first is celebration of welcome party for a leader from biggest democratic country in the world on the soil of a country with the longest democratic rule in the world and second is repressive force of CCP thugs to silence the democratic rights of Hong Kongers as one of the poster on this forum. We should all support this movement till they achieve their goals.
Dude, you are so sentimental!

Sent from my HUAWEI P7-L07 using Tapatalk 2
 

tramp

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@nimo_cn
If, like you say, what happens in Hong Kong will not impact the mainland situatino, why is the CCP so worried about what kind of electoral system Hong Kong chooses? Why not let them choose whoever they want and decide there own future... in any case Hong Kong cannot become an independent country. it will remain part of China.....

I will tell you why CCP is worried about Hong Kong. There are frustrated youngsters across many cities in mainland China and they are also watching what is happening in Hong Kong. If the govt is seen weak in HK, that would signal trouble in other places also. No point trying to ignore that. The CCP itself is hardly monolithic and there could be problems within the party if it authority is seen as weakening in any manner.

I agree with you regarding the repeat of Tiananmen Sq in Hong Kong. Because the CCP is not as block headed as it was in 1989.

Well, the Chinese central government seems extremely cool with it, isn't it?

The event will not become another tiananmen as some are suggesting, people should perish that thought. Unlike beijing, HK is a city marginalized from the mainland. whatever the result of this so called democratic movement will be, successful or failed, it wont affect the political dynamic in mainland, not to mention it's bound to fail.

neither will it have much impact on Chinese economy.

If the chaos continues, HK will pay a big price. HK's status as a financial hub in Asia has already been weakened by intense competition from shanghai and Singapore. Frequent violent political street movements are gonna further reduce the confidence of potential investors.

CCP is doing the right thing by staying out of it and just observing. let the students ruin HK. When HK loses its economy advantages over mainland, everything shall go back to peace.

Sent from my HUAWEI P7-L07 using Tapatalk 2
 
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CCP

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@nimo_cn
If, like you say, what happens in Hong Kong will not impact the mainland situatino, why is the CCP so worried about what kind of electoral system Hong Kong chooses? Why not let them choose whoever they want and decide there own future... in any case Hong Kong cannot become an independent country. it will remain part of China.....

I will tell you why CCP is worried about Hong Kong. There are frustrated youngsters across many cities in mainland China and they are also watching what is happening in Hong Kong. If the govt is seen weak in HK, that would signal trouble in other places also. No point trying to ignore that. The CCP itself is hardly monolithic and there could be problems within the party if it authority is seen as weakening in any manner.

I agree with you regarding the repeat of Tiananmen Sq in Hong Kong. Because the CCP is not as block headed as it was in 1989.
Well, since mainland China is the only one have to pay for any failure of Hong Kong but not those CIA supported kids.
 
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SADAKHUSH

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Dude, you are so sentimental!

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Really. Your CCP is deaf and blind to the cause they are fighting for. CCP has no choice but to stay put. If they repeat the Tinnamen Square fiasco the loss will be that of China. How much time will tell. I take a stand for the right thing and do not react emotionally to the events around the world.
 

tramp

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Nanny state.... reminiscent of Animal Farm...
People will want this, want that.. but only the party knows what is good for them.... may be the party will decide to jail them, make them walk on their knees or crawl on their tummy... but it's all for the good of the people... party is the know-all. Not different from the radical theological states... run by taliban.
Stupid brainwashed peabrains.

Well, since mainland China is the only one have to pay for any failure of Hong Kong but not those CIA supported kids.
 

Compersion

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The main protest is on 1-2 October I thought ... Has it been called off

There's news that rubber bullets might be used that's a big jump and not sure if they are thinking these things through. It will make the mood and attitude more worse. Use water canon and tear gas but not rubber bullets.
 

ezsasa

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Was watching one of those CNN live reports. keeping my opinions on the protests aside,in all that chaos these kids were also ensuring that areas they were protesting were kept clean. these kids themselves were carefully picking up the plastic bottles and stuff and were carefully putting then in a corner. That was interesting.
 

s002wjh

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firt you say that only those been to HK should talk. Now you say that you say that you will only talk to people who are older than me. Forgive me, but i think you are trying to avoid me. Even though Hong Kong never had full democracy, people said that british rule would be better than chinese. And there are reasons to believe so. Under chinese rule, HK citizens will lose the freedoms they had under british rule. The press would be censored. How can anyone accept such things. Truth is, that the CCP is afraid of HK being a democracy. They are afraid that this moment fro democracy can grow into the mainland, threatening their present regime. You let people have even a little experience of democracy, they will understand which is better.
did you read my post, my point was these kids are immature, idealistic, and too haste to make decision without thinking the consequence. consider most of the protester are 21 or younger. they didnt wait for the detail regarding election to come out, then just decide to paralyze the financial district and block off major highway without thinking about others (guess what HK stock dip 500 pts today).

There WERE NEVER freedom/election under british, all the governor of HK prior97 were appointed by british without any saying from HK, find me a creditable link say otherwise.

its not gonna grow into mainland, did Arab spring trigger movement in mainland, again it shows you have no contact with chinese mainlander. most mainlander worry about jobs, environment, corruption, democracy is last on their mind, especially if at the cost of destabilization.

the current protestor are 4-5% of entire HK population, unless there are hundreds thousands-million protestor nothing gonna change. it also show how many HK dont care or against the HK student movement.

what the student try to achieve, a free election? guess what, any elected official gonna have to cozy up with CCP, cause HK economy depend on it. for economy? they are damage it now. for freedom of press/protest? they already has those.
 

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