This is communism

asianobserve

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Of course, communism can only survive if the entire world is administered as a collection of stateless communes; xxx

This is a big "IF," and I must say doomed to failure. Taking off from human nature, which is naturally inquisitive, creative, individualistic (at least wants to be distinctly defined and treated) and competitive, your utopian society will just collapse under the weight of individual demands for personal space and individual freedoms. I for one cannot live in a World were I cannot choose (or choices are limited) my house, food, shoes, cellphone, laptop, car, where to go, profession, the business I like to put up, the products I like to make, and more importantly where I cannot "own" properties.
 

asianobserve

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Now tell me sire, if there is no incentive to earn more and be ahead of the others, who will work?

And since you are a sympathiser of communism but not a communist per se( whatever non sense that sentence means,i cant understand:frusty:), tell me will you work your ass off when you know that no matter how much work you do, you are getting the same pay as others? Or will you be ready to accept the salary of an office peon when you have struggled so hard to become a programmer?
Hahaha! Spot on.
 

civfanatic

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For underlined part :dude: really? Thats what i meant remember, administrative power in itself is a class .
I don't think you understand what I wrote. Read it again, carefully.


For the boldened part. Thats what it is communism. Excellent on paper and stupid in practice. Now tell me sire, if there is no incentive to earn more and be ahead of the others, who will work?

And since you are a sympathiser of communism but not a communist per se( whatever non sense that sentence means,i cant understand:frusty:), tell me will you work your ass off when you know that no matter how much work you do, you are getting the same pay as others? Or will you be ready to accept the salary of an office peon when you have struggled so hard to become a programmer?

Communism is a concept brought about by lazy morons jealous of the intellectuals.

No matter what justification you give- heart surgeon not equal to bike mechanic.
In a communist society there would be no salaries nor money.
 

civfanatic

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Taking off from human nature, which is naturally inquisitive, creative, individualistic (at least wants to be distinctly defined and treated) and competitive, your utopian society will just collapse under the weight of individual demands for personal space and individual freedoms. I for one cannot live in a World were I cannot choose (or choices are limited) my house, food, shoes, cellphone, laptop, car, where to go, profession, the business I like to put up, the products I like to make, and more importantly where I cannot "own" properties.
Individualism is not a part of "human nature", it is a result of one's cultural environment. Only modern Western cultures can be described as "individualistic" cultures. In almost all other parts of the world, it is natural to put the goals of one's group over personal aspirations. That is how we humans survived in our earliest days; we are all naturally social collectivists.
 

Mad Indian

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Individualism is not a part of "human nature", it is a result of one's cultural environment. Only modern Western cultures can be described as "individualistic" cultures. In almost all other parts of the world, it is natural to put the goals of one's group over personal aspirations. That is how we humans survived in our earliest days; we are all naturally social collectivists.
WTF Individualism is not Human nature? Dude, Humans are not differant from the Survival of the fittest phenomenon.

And natural collectivism in itself involved Class. There was always the head of the clan and the food and others are distributed in accordance to their social standing. And there was and will be no equality. Only a moron will think Humans can be equal.

And what you are saying is democracy. Where the society has to follow majority.
 

Mad Indian

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@CIV

Since there is not going to be any money, why the ---- should i work my ass off to become a doctor? I can simply be a driver. Since all the jobs are equal and every one is equal.


And btw, since you want equality and classless society,i oppose the MOD class you are in this DFI and suggest that you fight against the class system in DFI and give up your mod post to some one who is not a commie:taunt::taunt1:
 

Mad Indian

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So before money was invented, no one had any motive to work? We just sat there and slowly starved to death? :pound:
Nice ji, before the money was invented the people had what they earned for themselves which is essentially against the COmmie non sense:doh:

And you want to go back to living in the caves- nice go there. No one is stopping you:taunt:

Thats what we are having here. Dont act smart. Just give up the class that you have-the DFI mod status:taunt:
 
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asianobserve

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Individualism is not a part of "human nature", it is a result of one's cultural environment. Only modern Western cultures can be described as "individualistic" cultures.
Really? So Indians think and act the same? We Asians may be more family or community oriented than Westerners but it does not mean that we do not seek to define our individualism. We always do even within our family and community. This is human nature.
 

Mad Indian

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Everyone gets payed on their requirement and works for their capacity- communism

Well if i say my capacity is just working for three hours(i can say just five minutes too but then it will be too silly like CIV's statements) per day while others are working for ten hours a day, will the So called Classless Commie society be ok with that :heh:?
 

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WTF Individualism is not Human nature?
No, it is not. There are numerous studies in this regard.

Dude, Humans are not differant from the Survival of the fittest phenomenon.
What does "survival of the fittest" have to do with individualism? :confused:

Don't confuse Darwinian biology with sociology; they are two very different fields and should be treated as such to avoid misinterpretation. The people who blur the distinction between the two (i.e. Social Darwinists) are today the laughing stock of science.

If you look at prehistory, you will see that humans were able to survive because of collectivist tendencies. We naturally formed into bands/clans/tribes because it was more advantageous to be part of a larger group.

And natural collectivism in itself involved Class. There was always the head of the clan and the food and others are distributed in accordance to their social standing. And there was and will be no equality. Only a moron will think Humans can be equal.
Refer to my post #54.

And what you are saying is democracy. Where the society has to follow majority.
Didn't I make that clear when I referred to grassroots democracy? :confused:
 

asianobserve

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So before money was invented, no one had any motive to work? We just sat there and slowly starved to death? :pound:

Civ, your degrading yourself with such post as this. Money is not the sole or the first form of value storage or medium of exchange. Before modern money system was invented it was said that people exchanged goods for other goods or services.

Now if you want to go back to the time when there was no money or its equivalents then I suggest we abandon civilisation and return to the hunting and gathering epoch, where people used to wander aimlessly and survive by feasting on what's already available in the environment (not growing them). In your idealised World you and me may actually look like this dramatization:



Would you really be happy in such kind of society?
 

Mad Indian

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No, it is not. There are numerous studies in this regard.
Yeah thats why all the practical examples of it failed

What does "survival of the fittest" have to do with individualism? :confused:

Don't confuse Darwinian biology with sociology; they are two very different fields and should be treated as such to avoid misinterpretation. The people who blur the distinction between the two (i.e. Social Darwinists) are today the laughing stock of science.
Everyone working for his own needs will ultimately lead to the benefit of the society as the society as whole is benefitted by the needs of the individuals are fulfilled. What i meant by survival of fittest is the ones working for his own good and can work better will naturally be at a level higher

And o survival of the fittest can be applied anywhere in practice. You just have to be smart enough to make the anologies right.

If you look at prehistory, you will see that humans were able to survive because of collectivist tendencies. We naturally formed into bands/clans/tribes because it was more advantageous to be part of a larger group.
And you think that everyone worked without any class or differance in them. WTF man, always there will be a job hated and a job liked and respected and all will be a class associated with it.

Didn't I make that clear when I referred to grassroots democracy? :confused:
WTF democracy are you talking about? there will be no freedom. As i asked if i say i can work only for five mins while others are working for ten hours, will that supposedly democratic society will be okay with that?:hippo:
 

civfanatic

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Really? So Indians think and act the same? We Asians may be more family or community oriented than Westerners but it does not mean that we do not seek to define our individualism. We always do even within our family and community. This is human nature.
Does collectivism mean everyone "thinks and acts the same"? Obviously, there will always be individual differences between human beings.

What I mean by collectivism is the tendency to put the goals of your group above personal goals, while individualism is tendency to do the opposite. While individualism may promote adventurism and innovation, it also promotes social alienation and weak community ties. On the other hand, collectivism promotes stable, healthy societies with long, enduring attachments to one's community.
 

asianobserve

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If you look at prehistory, you will see that humans were able to survive because of collectivist tendencies. We naturally formed into bands/clans/tribes because it was more advantageous to be part of a larger group.
But if you scratched this part of history you'll know that these "bands/clans/tribes" are always headed by the strongest member of the group. So if I may ask where's your "equality" even in this generalised prehistorical setting of yours?
 

Mad Indian

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Civ, your degrading yourself with such post as this. Money is not the sole or the first form of value storage or medium of exchange. Before modern money system was invented it was said that people exchanged goods for other goods or services.

Now if you want to go back to the time when there was no money or its equivalents then I suggest we abandon civilisation and return to the hunting and gathering epoch, where people used to wander aimlessly and survive by feasting on what's already available in the environment (not growing them). In your idealised World you and me may actually look like this dramatization:



Would you really be happy in such kind of society?
:scared2::pound: Epic....

In an idealised world, even the Supposedly evil Capitalist society will be Excellent, since people are not evil since it is a ideal world:taunt1:, there will be no use for class and other non sense as claimed by Karl marx and his group of morons:hippo:.

So there is no need for the communism there either:taunt:

@CIV And for that stupid post of yours some one has thanked you :doh:
 

civfanatic

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Civ, your degrading yourself with such post as this. Money is not the sole or the first form of value storage or medium of exchange. Before modern money system was invented it was said that people exchanged goods for other goods or services.

Now if you want to go back to the time when there was no money or its equivalents then I suggest we abandon civilisation and return to the hunting and gathering epoch, where people used to wander aimlessly and survive by feasting on what's already available in the environment (not growing them). In your idealised World you and me may actually look like this dramatization:



Would you really be happy in such kind of society?
Actually, that epoch that you are referring to is known as "primitive communism" in Marxist theory, since it has the basic trappings of communism.

And yes, I am advocating that we return to such a society, except with modern technology.
 

asianobserve

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What I mean by collectivism is the tendency to put the goals of your group above personal goals, while individualism is tendency to do the opposite.

I must say you have the natural tendency to be dictatorial, of course all communists are. They think they know everything and will send anyone not toeing their line to Siberia to be forced to conform (reeducated) in a wink. BTW, "communist" NoKor is still maintaining "reeducation camps"...
 

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