The Syrian Crisis

bhramos

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Photos and videos of the Toyota Land Cruiser armored vehicle transporting the head of the Syrian Party of the Future Hafrin Helef and ambushed by pro-Turkish Syrian National Army militants on the M-4 highway have been published. All those inside were killed.

 

bhramos

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Modernized #Turkish M60TM tank with laser warning system, remotely controlled turret, telescopic periscope, #AKKOR Pulat active protection complex (KAZ). The tank takes part in military operation "Source of Peace".




 

bhramos

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If they were supposed to bring safety, then why did their Imams isue Fatwas saying all males can be killed?
 

bhramos

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Am American patrol this morning right outside of #Qamishli . Turkish forces are reported to have mistakenly shelled a group of US special forces troops in northern Syria. Now the US is showing presence
 

Haldiram

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Jameson Emoni

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Am American patrol this morning right outside of #Qamishli . Turkish forces are reported to have mistakenly shelled a group of US special forces troops in northern Syria. Now the US is showing presence
Those are nice trucks. Does anyone know the name of the company that makes them?
 

Willy3

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Seems j&k 1947 redux

Rojava = j&k
Turkey =napak
Legitimate Syrian gormint = India

Now as kurds no longer have her sugar daddy...aka USA... their leadership would beg rossiya-SAA for help.

I am sure Assad surely don't want major part of Syrian to be captured by Turks...but noway they would allow Kurds 'free' help when they have vast precious land and cities under control.

In return SAA-rossiya would put following terms....
1) surrender Raqqa , Tabqa , manbij ,hassaka oil fields

2) abandon their cause of freedom...may be they can workout a special autonomy deal later but surely it will be less powerful than iraqi Kurdistan

This kurds can't fight iraqi militias without US support ( lost whole area outside Iraqi Kurdistan in 2 weeks in Iraq)

So hopefully their leaders will be realistic to accept such offer if it's mailed to them in future..... otherwise a genocide is in waiting for their kin.
 

Haldiram

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Am American patrol this morning right outside of #Qamishli . Turkish forces are reported to have mistakenly shelled a group of US special forces troops in northern Syria. Now the US is showing presence
"Mistakenly shelled"? the whole conflict is about Turkey hitting US bases to drive them out of the area, because of American support to Kurdish YPG. Who else is left in Northern Syria after 5 years of battle.

In a strange twist of fate, now Iran and the US are aligned over this issue. Iran recently did massive war exercises in response to Turkish invasion of Syria. The US also warned Turkey against an invasion of Syria. Even Russia doesn't want Turkey to be there. So it's Russia, Iran, USA, on one side and Turkey alone on the other side. The US will gladly ease the pressure on Iran in the Arabian sea so that both could focus on Turkey. While American ally Israel had teamed up with Turkey for their own goal of taking down Assad.

Counter-currents, counter-currents everywhere. The Kurds have all 5 fingers in ghee. All major world powers are willing to supply war material to take on Turkey. If they show battlefield ingenuity, we may very well see a new Kurdistan emerging. Turkey has rubbed everyone the wrong way.
 

Jameson Emoni

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"Mistakenly shelled"? the whole conflict is about Turkey hitting US bases to drive them out of the area, because of American support to Kurdish YPG. Who else is left in Northern Syria after 5 years of battle.

In a strange twist of fate, now Iran and the US are aligned over this issue. Iran recently did massive war exercises in response to Turkish invasion of Syria. The US also warned Turkey against an invasion of Syria. Even Russia doesn't want Turkey to be there. So it's Russia, Iran, USA, on one side and Turkey alone on the other side. The US will gladly ease the pressure on Iran in the Arabian sea so that both could focus on Turkey. While American ally Israel had teamed up with Turkey for their own goal of taking down Assad.

Counter-currents, counter-currents everywhere. The Kurds have all 5 fingers in ghee. All major world powers are willing to supply war material to take on Turkey. If they show battlefield ingenuity, we may very well see a new Kurdistan emerging. Turkey has rubbed everyone the wrong way.
What is Trump's game plan? Also, where does The Cartel stand on this issue?
 

Jameson Emoni

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This article seems to answer some of my questions.

---

...

Arab leaders also object to Erdoğan’s support for the Muslim Brotherhood and his neo-Ottoman ideas about Turkish regional dominance. Like Russia and Iran, they calculate, reluctantly but pragmatically, that the only way to end Syria’s war, and contain Isis, is to back Assad. Erdoğan has now got in the way.

The crisis has produced another cautionary lesson: that American alliances cannot be trusted. The Kurds already knew this. They were betrayed in Iraq in 1991, when the US left Saddam Hussein in power at the end of the first Gulf war.

But US unreliability is new for the Saudi regime which, like Israel, ultimately depends on Washington for its security. The more the Saudis realise they cannot count on America, the more likely they are to mend fences with Iran. By some accounts, this is already happening.

How ironic if Trump’s Syrian cop-out – providing a reality check about the limits of American power – led indirectly to peace in the Gulf, an end to the Iran-Saudi proxy war in Yemen, and spiked the guns of US and Israeli hawks who have pushed so hard for war with Tehran.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/c...sion-syria-trump-withdrawal-gulf-rivals-unite
 

Haldiram

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What is Trump's game plan? Also, where does The Cartel stand on this issue?
That particular area overlooking the Caspian sea is a very juicy inflection point. Every major power wants to catch a hold of it because it allows them to choke naval shipping lanes of others in future conflicts.

Every major power has tried to play "capture the flag" over that area, in the process, Turkey shot down a Russian plane, Russia suspended nuclear-energy partnership with Turkey as retaliation, the US lost some SF soldiers, Iran also lost some of its finest SF from the revolutionary guard but none could override the status quo, so now there's a shift of tactics.

The US will let the other parties shed blood if the goals are overlapping. Why take the risk of bleeding and being bled by Iran in the Arabian sea for nothing when the same blood can be spilled fighting against Turkey, indirectly favoring American goals? They'll release pressure in the Arabian sea and pull back their Navy as a confidence-building measure and let Iran tackle Turkey. They can't let Syria retake the region, nor can they allow Russia to occupy that space. They'll let Turkey and Iran go at each other's throat. Whatever be the outcome of the fight, Iran gets weakened, Turkey gets weakened, and the cost to the US is virtually nil. The US will remain in constant touch with both throughout the conflict and see which one yields more concessions. They'll throw their weight behind the one who is more willing to give in to American demands. If Iran makes concessions on the nuclear weapons issue, the US will gladly let them take Kurdistan and use their diplomatic might to get the resolution passed in the UN. If Turkey allows the US to build THAAD bases inside Turkey, as has been their long standing request, then the US will side with them.

The US is a chalu country. It doesn't take sides out of fervor. They take cold calculated decisions and enter the fight after other desperate powers have weakened each other. Iran is also a chalu country. They will not get used. The only non-chalu country in that region is the thick brained Turks. They are high on the koolaid of the erstwhile glory of the Ottoman empire, and out of touch with today's reality. If they had to go into war, they had no reason to antagonize India and create an additional enemy at the last moment. They could have kept us out just by not uttering Kashmir, but in their minds, they have the might to take on Iran, Russia, USA, and India, all at the same time, if need be. They also tried to pick a fight with China over the East-Turkistan issue, and they have picked a fight with Israel over Palestine. They also have a quarrel with Greece over Cyprus. That is what Islam does to the brain cells. It doesn't let you rest until you pick fights with everyone and get yourself killed.

In ANY war that Turkey fights, all these powers will gladly lend weapons to the Kurds to rub it in Turkey's face. A weakened Turkey is good for Israel, Russia, Iran, China and India. The Kurdish issue is just a card for everyone. But a free Kurdistan seems like a very real outcome of this clash.
 
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Jameson Emoni

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That particular area overlooking the Caspian sea is a very juicy inflection point. Every major power wants to catch a hold of it because it allows them to choke naval shipping lanes of others in future conflicts.

Every major power has tried to play "capture the flag" over that area, in the process, Turkey shot down a Russian plane, Russia suspended nuclear-energy partnership with Turkey as retaliation, the US lost some SF soldiers, Iran also lost some of its finest SF from the revolutionary guard but none could override the status quo, so now there's a shift of tactics.

The US will let the other parties shed blood if the goals are overlapping. Why take the risk of bleeding and being bled by Iran in the Arabian sea for nothing when the same blood can be spilled fighting against Turkey, indirectly favoring American goals? They'll release pressure in the Arabian sea and pull back their Navy as a confidence-building measure and let Iran tackle Turkey. They can't let Syria retake the region, nor can they allow Russia to occupy that space. They'll let Turkey and Iran go at each other's throat. Whatever be the outcome of the fight, Iran gets weakened, Turkey gets weakened, and the cost to the US is virtually nil. The US will remain in constant touch with both throughout the conflict and see which one yields more concessions. They'll throw their weight behind the one who is more willing to give in to American demands. If Iran makes concessions on the nuclear weapons issue, the US will gladly let them take Kurdistan and use their diplomatic might to get the resolution passed in the UN. If Turkey allows the US to build THAAD bases inside Turkey, as has been their long standing request, then the US will side with them.

The US is a chalu country. It doesn't take sides out of fervor. They take cold calculated decisions and enter the fight after other desperate powers have weakened each other. Iran is also a chalu country. They will not get used. The only non-chalu country in that region is the thick brained Turks. They are high on the koolaid of the erstwhile glory of the Ottoman empire, and out of touch with today's reality. If they had to go into war, they had no reason to antagonize India and create an additional enemy at the last moment. They could have kept us out just by not uttering Kashmir, but in their minds, they have the might to take on Iran, Russia, USA, and India, all at the same time, if need be. They also tried to pick a fight with China over Turkmenistan issue, and they have picked a fight with Israel over Palestine. That is what Islam does to the brain cells.

In ANY war that Turkey fights, all these powers will gladly lend weapons to the Kurds to rub it in Turkey's face. A weakened Turkey is good for Israel, Russia, Iran, China and India. The Kurdish issue is just a card for everyone. But a free Kurdistan seems like a very real outcome of this clash.
Excellent analysis!

It is safe to assume that Trump laid a trap for Erdogan and Erdogan walked right into it. He is a seriously arrogant man. I have a feeling Putin will use this opportunity to avenge the killing of the Russian pilot and may co-ordinate with Iran.

It is a good development from India's perspective; it will slow down Turkey and Pakistan's new found romance. I think India should provide some "moral and diplomatic" support to Kurds.

Here is the running list of countries Turkey has managed to piss off:

- India
- France
- Russia
- USA
- Iran
- Greece

Last and not least Syria. Heck, even Saudis are not happy with Turkey.
 
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Haldiram

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Turkey is surrounded by water on 3 sides and yet they picked a fight with the only land borders they have with everyone. It was in their interest to keep that area pacified so that it acts as a trade transit route. They've locked themselves in by picking a fight with all border nations. No wonder Turkey and Pakistan get along so well. Both have the same STD from the rape of their ammis by invaders centuries ago.

They could have converted the Islamic nations on their border into trading partners, grown their clout and used that clout to challenge European hegemony. Instead, they picked a fight with other Muslims and now Eurore and US will use this ripe opportunity to hammer them.

France, Germany halt arms exports to Turkey over Syria offensive

There's a lesson there for Indian import lobby fanbois. In any war, the white bois gang up with other fellow white bois and stop weapons supplies to non-whiteboi nations. France, Germany, USA, Britain, they are all the same. When push comes to shove, you are on you own if you don't have an indigenous weapons base. All of that 10-front war scenario porn that the IAF publishes will remain in their wet dreams if supplies of spares are stopped at the moment of war.




Now, with war looming, the tourism revenue is 100% gone. They had ship building expertise, but now the 3 billion$ contract with India is gone, and back to being the Ottoman tribesmen they were. ZERO evolution.

This type of 'Muslim tribal' mindset is not suited for the 21st century, where trade is the strategic card for a nation to play, more than military. Trade is what leads to a disproportionate and quick leveling up of a state's ability to influence other nations without war. Malaysia gon learn that lesson now.
 

Haldiram

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Latest updates on Turkish offensive in Syria.

Gist >> French and German defense ministries have issued statements opposing Turkey's move and stopped the export of arms to Turkey.


AKCAKALE, Turkey (AP) — The Latest on Turkey’s military offensive into northeastern Syria against Syrian Kurdish fighters (all times local):

11:25 p.m.

France is halting exports of any arms to Turkey that could be used in its offensive against Kurds in Syria, and wants an immediate meeting of the U.S.-led coalition against Islamic State extremists.

France’s defense and foreign ministries made the announcement in a statement Saturday reiterating opposition to the Turkish military operation, which is facing growing international condemnation.

The statement says France will push for a “Europe-wide approach” toward suspended arms sales at an EU foreign ministers’ meeting Monday. Germany also announced Saturday it’s curtailing arms exports to Turkey.

The French government argues the offensive is causing growing humanitarian problems and threatens the international fight against IS, “and therefore threatens European security.” IS-linked extremists have staged deadly attacks in European countries.

France wants a meeting of the anti-IS coalition to discuss its next steps in the context of the Turkish actions.

___

10:05 p.m.

Germany’s foreign minister has announced that the country will curtail its arms exports to Turkey, which has started a military offensive into northeastern Syria against Syrian Kurdish fighters.

Heiko Maas on Saturday told weekly Bild am Sonntag that, “against the background of the Turkish military offensive in northeastern Syria, the government will not issue any new permissions for any weapons that can be used by Turkey in Syria.”

Maas’ remarks came as thousands of Kurdish immigrants rallied against the Turkish military offensive in cities across Germany. Germany is home to one of the biggest Kurdish communities in Europe.

Austria, Switzerland and Greece also saw Kurdish demonstrations against Turkey’s offensive in Syria.

___

9:25 p.m.

About 1,000 Kurds and a contingent of left-wing activists have protested in the northern city of Thessaloniki, Greece’s second largest, against the Turkish military offensive in northern Syria.

The protesters carried banners, including one saying, “Where is the UN?” and burned pictures of Turkish president Recep Tayyip Erdogan. They repeated the photo burning and slogans outside the Turkish consulate. Both premises were guarded by police forces.

In the capital Athens, police said close to 2,000 Kurds and other activists marched to the Turkish Embassy in the city center but police prevented them from getting too close. They dispersed after a peaceful protest. A small contingent of 150 protesters also marched to the U.S. Embassy.

___

7:10 p.m.

The Arab League is calling for the United Nations Security Council to take measures to force Turkey to halt its military offensive in Syria and “immediately” withdraw its forces from the Arab country.

A communique after the meeting of Arab foreign ministers on Saturday also urged the Security Council to suspend military and intelligence support that could help Turkey’s offensive.

The communique says Arab countries reject Turkey’s attempts to impose “demographic changes” in Syria by a so-called “safe zone.”

It says Arab countries should consider taking “diplomatic, economic, investment, cultural measures ... to confront the Turkish aggression.”

Two countries, Qatar and Somalia, expressed reservations about the communique. Qatar has backed Turkey’s offensive.

The Arab League’s meeting came as Turkey’s offensive against Syrian Kurdish fighters entered its fourth day.

___

6:20 p.m.

Thousands of people have demonstrated in Paris in support of Kurds being targeted by Turkish forces in Syria.

Protesters warned that the offensive could allow Islamic State group extremists to resurge. Kurdish forces being targeted by Turkey this week were crucial to the international campaign against IS fighters, who orchestrated several deadly attacks against France.

Demonstrators from various activist groups slammed Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan, with one carrying a sign reading “Erdogan=IS.” They also criticized U.S. President Donald Trump for his decision to withdraw U.S. forces from Syria, which helped pave the way for the Turkish offensive.

The rally Saturday at Republique plaza in eastern Paris ended peacefully.

Turkey’s military, which calls the Kurdish forces a security threat, said it captured a key Syrian border town Saturday. French President Emmanuel Macron urged an end to the fighting, as international criticism of the offensive mounted.

__

6:05 p.m.

The main Kurdish-led group in northern Syria is calling on the United States to carry out its “moral responsibilities” and close northern Syrian airspace to Turkish warplanes.

Reydour Khalil, a spokesman for the Syrian Democratic Forces, read the group’s statement, which did not directly name the U.S. but referred to them as “our allies.”

Saturday’s statement said “we don’t want them to send their soldiers to the front lines and put their lives in danger.”

It said “what we want is for them” to close the airspace for Turkish warplanes and “this is something they can do easily.”

The statement said the SDF has lost 45 fighters since Turkey began an invasion of northeast Syria four days ago.

___

6 p.m.

Russia’s President Vladimir Putin says that all foreign forces in Syria that lack its government’s invitation should leave the country.

Putin, speaking in an interview with journalists from the United Arab Emirates and Saudi Arabia ahead of his visits to the countries, said Moscow has talked to Turkey, Iran, the United States and others about the need to restore Syria’s territorial integrity and end foreign military presence.

Putin didn’t talk about Turkey’s military operation in northern Syria in parts of the interview that were broadcast by Russian television Saturday. Russia has taken a soft stance on Turkey’s move, noting Ankara’s need to secure its border.

He added that if the Syrian leadership decides in the future that the country no longer needs Russian troops, they will also leave.

___

4:30 p.m.

Iraq’s foreign minister says Turkey’s military offensive in northern Syria “reinforces terrorists’ capabilities” to reorganize and undermines world efforts to fight the Islamic State group.

Mohamed Alhakim says the Turkish incursion is a “blatant aggression” against Syria’s sovereignty and integrity.

Alhakim spoke Saturday at an Arab League meeting called by Egypt following Turkey’s invasion of northern Syria, which was launched on Wednesday.

He says the military assault also threatens to fuel other conflicts in Syria and will have “negative repercussions,” especially in Iraq, which is still suffering from the war against IS.

___

3:55 p.m.

Lebanon’s top diplomat is calling on the Arab League to restore Syria’s membership amid Turkey’s military offensive in northern Syria.

Foreign Minister Gebran Bassil says that readmitting Syria into the pan-Arab organization should be “the first response from the League to the Turkish aggression.” He spoke to the league on Saturday in Cairo.

He says: “We can no longer allow any Israeli or Turkish aggression or (aggression) from any party against an Arab state or an Arab people.”

Syria’s membership in the 22-member Arab League was suspended in 2011 after the Syrian government’s military crackdown on protesters calling for reforms.

Bassil spoke Saturday at an Arab League meeting called by Egypt on Turkey’s invasion of northern Syria.

___

3:10 p.m.

The head of the Arab League is calling for Turkey to halt its military offensive in Syria and pull out its forces from the war-torn country.

Ahmed Aboul Gheit said Saturday that Turkey’s military operation in northern Syria has resulted in a new wave of displacement and jeopardizes “achievements” made in fighting the Islamic State group.

Turkey says it aims to push back Syrian Kurdish forces, which it considers a threat for their links to a decades-long Kurdish insurgency within its own borders.

Aboul Gheit spoke at an emergency Arab League summit called by Egypt on Turkey’s invasion of northern Syria.

Egypt’s Foreign Minister Sameh Shoukry, after meeting with a Syrian Kurdish representative earlier in the day, said he supported Kurdish “legitimate resistance” against the Turkish operation.

___

1:50 p.m.

A Kurdish police force in northern Syria says a car bomb has exploded outside a prison where members of the Islamic State group are being held, but there was no word on casualties.

The police force known as Asayesh said the blast occurred early Saturday outside the central prison in the northeastern city of Hassakeh, much of which is controlled by Kurdish forces.

The Britain-based Syrian Observatory for Human Rights said after the blast, Kurdish fighters brought reinforcements to prevent prisoners from escaping.

No one claimed responsibility but IS sleeper cells have carried out such bombings.

Kurdish fighters are holding about 10,000 IS fighters including some 2,000 foreigners.

There have been concerns that as Kurdish fighters try to repel Turkey’s invasion, some IS detainees might try to flee.

___

12:45 p.m.

Turkey says its military offensive has taken central Ras al-Ayn, a key border town in northeastern Syria, and its most significant gain since its cross-border operation began against Syrian Kurdish fighters.

The Turkish Defense Ministry tweeted: “Ras al-Ayn’s residential center has been taken under control through the successful operations in the east of the Euphrates (River).”

The Britain-based Syrian Observatory for Human Rights, an opposition war monitor, confirmed that Turkish troops have entered the town adding that fighting is still ongoing.

The Turkish military and allied Syrian opposition forces have been advancing in villages around Tal Abyad and Ras al-Ayn, under the cover of Turkish artillery and some airstrikes.

Turkey is fighting the Syrian Kurdish People’s Protection Units, or YPG, which it considers a threat for its links to a decades-long Kurdish insurgency within its own borders.

The YPG forms the backbone of the U.S.-backed ground forces fighting the Islamic State group.

___

12:20 p.m.

Arab foreign ministers are meeting to discuss Turkey’s invasion of northern Syria, as the Arab League holds an emergency session at its headquarters in Cairo.

Saturday’s meetings in Egypt’s capital came as the Turkish offensive against Syrian Kurdish fighters enters its fourth day.

Egypt called the emergency meeting to discuss what it called Turkey’s “blatant aggression” against Syria’s sovereignty.

Turkey says it aims to push back Syrian Kurdish forces, which it considers terrorists for its links to a decades-long Kurdish insurgency within its own borders.

But the military action and violence in northern Syria has raised concerns about a possible resurgence of Islamic State activity.

Syria’s membership in the 22-member Arab League was suspended in 2011 after the Syrian government’s military crackdown on protesters calling for reforms.

___

10:20 a.m.

France’s president has discussed the Turkish offensive in Syria with U.S. President Donald Trump, and warned about a possible resurgence of Islamic State activity as a result of the military action.

President Macron’s office said in a statement Saturday that in the call, the French leader “reiterated the need to make the Turkish offensive stop immediately.”

The statement didn’t say whether Macron urged U.S. forces to intervene. Trump’s decision to pull out of the region cleared the way for this week’s Turkish offensive against Kurds in northeast Syria it sees as a threat.

Macron stressed “above all else the need to avoid any resurgence of IS in the region,” and to support the Kurdish forces who helped the U.S.-led military coalition retake Syrian and Iraqi territory from IS extremists.

France has suffered multiple deadly attacks by IS-linked radicals.

The statement said France and the U.S. “share common concerns” and will coordinate closely on the issue in the coming days.

___

10:10 a.m.

Turkey’s official news agency says Turkey-backed Syrian opposition forces have reached a strategic highway in northeastern Syria as Turkey’s offensive against Syrian Kurdish fighters enters its fourth day.

Anadolu news agency said Saturday the forces have arrived at the M-4 highway that connects the Syrian towns of Manbij and Qamishli. The road is about 30 kilometers (19 miles) south of the Turkish border.

Turkey has said it aims to push back Syrian Kurdish People’s Protection Units, or YPG, which it considers terrorists for its links to a decades-long Kurdish insurgency within its own borders.

Erdogan said Friday Turkey won’t stop until the YPG, who forms the backbone of the U.S.-backed ground force against the Islamic State, withdraws below a 32 kilometer (20 miles) deep line.
 

Jameson Emoni

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Turkey is surrounded by water on 3 sides and yet they picked a fight with the only land borders they have with everyone. It was in their interest to keep that area pacified so that it acts as a trade transit route. They've locked themselves in by picking a fight with all border nations. No wonder Turkey and Pakistan get along so well. Both have the same STD from the rape of their ammis by invaders centuries ago.

They could have converted the Islamic nations on their border into trading partners, grown their clout and used that clout to challenge European hegemony. Instead, they picked a fight with other Muslims and now Eurore and US will use this ripe opportunity to hammer them.

France, Germany halt arms exports to Turkey over Syria offensive

There's a lesson there for Indian import lobby fanbois. In any war, the white bois gang up with other fellow white bois and stop weapons supplies to non-whiteboi nations. France, Germany, USA, Britain, they are all the same. When push comes to shove, you are on you own if you don't have an indigenous weapons base. All of that 10-front war scenario porn that the IAF publishes will remain in their wet dreams if supplies of spares are stopped at the moment of war.




Now, with war looming, the tourism revenue is 100% gone. They had ship building expertise, but now the 3 billion$ contract with India is gone, and back to being the Ottoman tribesmen they were. ZERO evolution.

This type of 'Muslim tribal' mindset is not suited for the 21st century, where trade is the strategic card for a nation to play, more than military. Trade is what leads to a disproportionate and quick leveling up of a state's ability to influence other nations without war. Malaysia gon learn that lesson now.
Regarding indigenous weapon making capabilities, odds were stalked against us. We were under heavy sanction for a very long period of time. China on the other hand, in the same time period, benefited quite a bit from transfer of critical manufacturing technologies from the US. So we had to prioritize. We decided to buy the things that were available to us in the market and manufacture the items that were not available to us in the market.
 

Haldiram

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Regarding indigenous weapon making capabilities, odds were stalked against us. We were under heavy sanction for a very long period of time.
The sanctions themselves were a result of our political calculation to side with the Soviets (which was fine as a policy). The US banned India from acquiring tech as a result, which is fine too, but somehow our industry failed to absorb manufacturing capabilities even from the Soviets? Could have done something, reverse-engineering, copying, bribing and hiring Soviet engineers, corporate espionage. We were too good to do all of that? so we kept paying Russia for 4 decades and learned nothing.

Cant' blame our geo-political policies for the failure of our industry to catch up. Whatever strategic calculus our political leaders made to align with Russia, the industry should have found a way to absorb it, the way Israel absorbed, reversed-engineered, and perfected their grip over American weapons technology over the years during their Cold War embrace. The same way China was able to absorb Soviet tech through their commie embrace. Even Turkey was able to absorb NATO weapons tech over the years and reverse engineer it. Everyone did it, but only India couldn't do it?

All the IAF import lobby loyalists got fat from keeping Indian manufacturing capacity incapacitated over the decades, for the sake of import commissions. Our HAL Marut was ready waaaaaayy before the LCA Tejas was even conceptualized. The IAF practically made it their mission to kill it and now they tried to do the same with the Tejas. I'm very glad that at least 1 among the pack of wolves was sent to CBI at the end of the game. It sends a message to future IAF chiefs to behave and not take press conferences berating Indian weapons.
 

Akula

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The sanctions themselves were a result of our political calculation to side with the Soviets (which was fine as a policy). The US banned India from acquiring tech as a result, which is fine too, but somehow our industry failed to absorb manufacturing capabilities even from the Soviets? Could have done something, reverse-engineering, copying, bribing and hiring Soviet engineers, corporate espionage. We were too good to do all of that? so we kept paying Russia for 4 decades and learned nothing.

Cant' blame our geo-political policies for the failure of our industry to catch up. Whatever strategic calculus our political leaders made to align with Russia, the industry should have found a way to absorb it, the way Israel absorbed, reversed-engineered, and perfected their grip over American weapons technology over the years during their Cold War embrace. The same way China was able to absorb Soviet tech through their commie embrace. Even Turkey was able to absorb NATO weapons tech over the years and reverse engineer it. Everyone did it, but only India couldn't do it?

All the IAF import lobby loyalists got fat from keeping Indian manufacturing capacity incapacitated over the decades, for the sake of import commissions. Our HAL Marut was ready waaaaaayy before the LCA Tejas was even conceptualized. The IAF practically made it their mission to kill it and now they tried to do the same with the Tejas. I'm very glad that at least 1 among the pack of wolves was sent to CBI at the end of the game. It sends a message to future IAF chiefs to behave and not take press conferences berating Indian weapons.
Correct me If I am wrong, we could have used ex-soviet scientist and engineers in our projects. But we to were facing economic crisis in 1991.
 

Jameson Emoni

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4,250
The sanctions themselves were a result of our political calculation to side with the Soviets (which was fine as a policy). The US banned India from acquiring tech as a result, which is fine too, but somehow our industry failed to absorb manufacturing capabilities even from the Soviets? Could have done something, reverse-engineering, copying, bribing and hiring Soviet engineers, corporate espionage. We were too good to do all of that? so we kept paying Russia for 4 decades and learned nothing.

Cant' blame our geo-political policies for the failure of our industry to catch up. Whatever strategic calculus our political leaders made to align with Russia, the industry should have found a way to absorb it, the way Israel absorbed, reversed-engineered, and perfected their grip over American weapons technology over the years during their Cold War embrace. The same way China was able to absorb Soviet tech through their commie embrace. Even Turkey was able to absorb NATO weapons tech over the years and reverse engineer it. Everyone did it, but only India couldn't do it?

All the IAF import lobby loyalists got fat from keeping Indian manufacturing capacity incapacitated over the decades, for the sake of import commissions. Our HAL Marut was ready waaaaaayy before the LCA Tejas was even conceptualized. The IAF practically made it their mission to kill it and now they tried to do the same with the Tejas. I'm very glad that at least 1 among the pack of wolves was sent to CBI at the end of the game. It sends a message to future IAF chiefs to behave and not take press conferences berating Indian weapons.
Oh yes, I forgot about the traitors. Talking about the traitors: enacting new anti treason laws were part of BJP's campaign promise. Are we seeing any movement in that direction? Or, are current laws adequate in dealing with the traitors?
 

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