The Shudras: People who shouldnt have come to this world

Peter

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For poor man who cannot afford private college or school you are asking him to show merits.

Its like asking a Tata Indica to race in all Ferrari car race and to show its merit.

If you want to make competitive exams to be based on merit only then you have to nationalize all the schools and college where you provide same quality of infrastructure, faculty & syllabus. Do you think in a Govt school there is any teachers, if really there are any how many of them come to school and teach properly.

I am just telling to encourage the poor people who are working hard and performing good in education by giving them scholarships and reservations where required.

In cities where most children have decent quality of education in the form private schools, books and tuitions. what should happen to the children who are in village who doesn't have enough resources. Do all of the people living in the villages have to come cities to educate their children in order to make them competent enough or even make level playing ground.

I used to visit a Govt School in Bangalore as I was volunteer of my companies CSR team I used feel bad about the children who are their when i compare with the children in a private just next to it. If a Govt school which is Bangalore city in such bad position imagine what happens to school in the village.

From what you are asking no reservation / only based on merit they will never get into college or anywhere and they will like their parents will be in poverty forever.

Tell me you have any ever thought about the underprivileged people(may be poor or differently abled) and how will you try to give an opportunity and resource to them.
:lol:

You do support reservation for the Dalits/OBC then. The Dalits/OBC, in general, are the most poorest among the Indians. Check out the wiki. The govt prepared the reservation list based on the economic status of the communities too.(more so in the case of the OBCs)
Anyway in a span of 50 years all reservations will go away.
 

myana

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:lol:

You do support reservation for the Dalits/OBC then. The Dalits/OBC, in general, are the most poorest among the Indians. Check out the wiki. The govt prepared the reservation list based on the economic status of the communities too.(more so in the case of the OBCs)
Anyway in a span of 50 years all reservations will go away.
Man @Peter please read my posts carefully and donot distort them I would like reservations be provided based on his/her parents' annual salary that means purely based on the economic status of person not on the basis of his/her bloodline, caste, creed, minority, majority or another other bull shit reasons.

I am not saying dalit or obc should have reservation i am from obc i am self sufficient i can afford good education for my children my children should not be entitled with unnecessary reservations, but there might be my another relative who cannot afford good education for his children his children needs reservation. So a persons annual income should be the criteria for the reservation for his children not anything else.

I gave u two examples 1) poor priest's son(Brahmin) losing out because of caste based quota system 2) Rich ST guy getting unnecessary reservations.

And another suggestion please go visit a Govt school & any orphanage then we will discuss about who needs reservations and why. Until then please don't quote me or my posts. Thanks in advance.
 
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Peter

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Man @Peter please read my posts carefully and donot distort them I would like reservations be provided based on his/her parents' annual salary that means purely based on the economic status of person not on the basis of his/her bloodline, caste, creed, minority, majority or another other bull shit reasons.

I am not saying dalit or obc should have reservation i am from obc i am self sufficient i can afford good education for my children my children should not be entitled with unnecessary reservations, but there might be my another relative who cannot afford good education for his children his children needs reservation. So a persons annual income should be the criteria for the reservation for his children not anything else.

I gave u two examples 1) poor priest's son(Brahmin) losing out because of caste based quota system 2) Rich ST guy getting unnecessary reservations.

And another suggestion please go visit a Govt school & any orphanage then we will discuss about who needs reservations and why. Until then please don't quote me or my posts. Thanks in advance.
I have visited villages in Nadia FYI.

Also you do not seem to realize why reservations were provided in the first place. If economic prosperity was the only parameter which was taken into account then our leaders would have done so ages ago. However that was not the reason.

Ambedkar wanted separate electorates(possibly a separate homeland) for the Dalits. He had the support of few OBCs too.To prevent further division of India the policy of reservations was introduced by the Nehru-Gandhi camp. Dalits/Harijans had many problems in the past as they were discriminated and were the poorest among all.The Dalits were not allowed inside temple and there were superstitions that contact with them would pollute us. These Dalits, who were untouchables, became the SCs. The Shudras who were a bit more better off than Dalits but still lower than the FCs became OBCs. Ambdekar could only provide reservations for SCs/STs and he laid a future provision for reservations for OBCs/Shudras. The Mandal Commission then brought forward a report on the economic condition of the OBCs after which they were provided reservations. Thus reservations are due to discrimination SC/STs/OBCs face in India and not solely due to poor economic background. Ambedkar in fact believed that economic upliftment of the Depressed Classes was the only solution to removal of untouchability and discrimination.

Personally I feel that reservations are only a short term solution to the bigger problem of discrimination against lower castes. Discrimination persists in our country due to the lack of education among the masses of India,especially the village folk. The real solution to ending caste differences and developing that a pan Indian identity is to achieve 100% literacy in India. If all people,irrespective of caste,creed and religion are educated we would have no problems with reservations or caste bias.


Now coming to your solution of introducing reservations on basis of economic background. This has a bigger fault in it.

What happens when a poor man from FC and another poor person from OBC/SC/ST vies for the same seat? Who and what will determine the allocation of that seat? It will depend on the governing authority. If the authorities are from FCs they will favour a FC candidate. If they are from BC they will favour the BC candidate. Thus the system will be one of nepotism,favouritism and corruption. India will turn into a kleptocracy. The govt cannot cherrypick any poor individual and give that seat to him. The reservations for the BCs(ie OBC,SC,ST) were introduced on the general economic condition of the communities. In our case the poorest were the SCs/STs followed by the OBCs. It was also found that these communities were poor due to discrimination meted out by illiterate Indians in some parts of India.


No country gives reservation based on economic conditions. As I have said the real solution is to remove all reservations and instead develop a pan Indian identity. The pan Indian identity will only develop through textbooks. Otherwise we will continue seeing separatist factions like the Nagas,Bodos,Kashmiris,Dalits,Naxals etc Reservation cannot be added for all of them.

Edit- Relevant links added.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dalit
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shudra
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Other_Backward_Class
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forward_caste

 

myana

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Now coming to your solution of introducing reservations on basis of economic background. This has a bigger fault in it.

What happens when a poor man from FC and another poor person from OBC/SC/ST vies for the same seat? Who and what will determine the allocation of that seat? It will depend on the governing authority. If the authorities are from FCs they will favour a FC candidate. If they are from BC they will favour the BC candidate. Thus the system will be one of nepotism,favouritism and corruption. India will turn into a kleptocracy. The govt cannot cherrypick any poor individual and give that seat to him. The reservations for the BCs(ie OBC,SC,ST) were introduced on the general economic condition of the communities. In our case the poorest were the SCs/STs followed by the OBCs. It was also found that these communities were poor due to discrimination meted out by illiterate Indians in some parts of India.


No country gives reservation based on economic conditions. As I have said the real solution is to remove all reservations and instead develop a pan Indian identity. The pan Indian identity will only develop through textbooks. Otherwise we will continue seeing separatist factions like the Nagas,Bodos,Kashmiris,Dalits,Naxals etc Reservation cannot be added for all of them.
Hi @Peter Sorry for my late reply couldn't enough time out for this.

any ways coming to the point to your what happens situation I would like to quote my personal experience how it can be done how it is being done


Now as I told you earlier I got an Engineering seat in CBIT college in Hyderabad in 2000. During the admissions there were 3 phases 1) reservation counselling 2) general counselling 3)remaining of both (also general happens very late). Now in Reservation Phase 1 on one fine day ranks from 4001-10000 were called there was only one seat in CBIT in IT branch which was reserved for BC-B Male Category. During the then state of AndhraPradesh(now it is 2 states) categorization BC-B had approximately 100 different castes & sub-castes/communities, any body who belongs to one of the 100 castes is under category BC-B. So there approximately 500-1000 people were looking to get that seat then how did I end up with that seat. As per your logic then there must have been a person who belongs to my community/caste who gave the seat. well you are mistaken I got it because of merit as i secured 4002 rank and I was given priority above all others who have scored lesser rank.


Reserving the seats for poor doesn't mean that poorest of all will get the seat first and next poorest next and so on.
It means out of total seats we put some seats aside for the poor and people categorised poor can slug them out
among themselves on the basis of merit. The seat will be alloted to better ranked(merit) poor person he can be of fc/obc/sc/st.

Earlier say 10 years ago we could say any person belong to FC is rich & any person belonging to obc/sc/sts as poor backward or any thing. But it is not the case now you have to understand there are poor and rich in all categories, giving reservation to one and not giving reservation to others is injustice.

Coming to the point why reservation are needed
Do whatever you want there will be the rich and poor parity or should I have to say 'haves' and 'havenots'.
Here i am not talking about caste region religion or any thing.

Let me take a child of software Engineer & child of the daily wager or orphan both are preparing for competitive exam
Child of software Engineer will have
1) best convent schooling available
2) attends best tuitions
3) has best books available
4) has best environment and resources to study

Child of the daily wager / orphan
1) will be studying in Govt school where they teachers are not there if they there they wont come or they wont teach any thing. These schools are taught only in the medium of the language of the state. So they will never know English or any thing close to it.
2) They will never have any one to guide them nor they will have the books, resources or environment for them to study or compete with a child of software engineer.

As per you then all the colleges seats which are to be filled by competitive exams will always end up with the children who have grownup with best resources(children of the people who can afford them). So a poor man child should never be educated or allowed to write an competitive exam because he will never be able to out do the child with all facilities.

"Now removing the reservation on the basis of caste/region/religion/xyz and putting reservation based on one's parent annual income will create an environment where anybody will least care what caste, community or religion one belongs to as it becomes a worthless thing thus unites everybody which was dividing people along many lines and only divides on one common known ever existing line called rich and poor this also gives a flexibility of removing reservation on person when his parents are able to afford him decent resources(increase in parents salary)".

You said giving reservation will cause nepotism,favoritism and corruption.I just want to bring to your light that these things exists even where there is no reservation i.e private companies.
People feel getting employment in private companies is purely based on merit well my friend I can share you far too many instances where one's selection is done because he/she is more beautiful than others not merit, he/she is of same caste/community/region as of recruiter and many other reasons. You ask any private company employee who gets a promotion first a person working hard or a manager's drinking partner who bitches about all other employees gets it first you will know it. I am seeing these thing day in and day out in all the companies around.

So no reservations doesn't make world better nor does the reservations. Giving reservation to people living in poverty creates interest of education in them this can change their attitude towards the education and this eventually will change their lives.
 

Rowdy

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nothing happens without the will of Allah and Allah has willed these people on the planet ..... Who are you to question their existence?
 

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What happened? Did somebody get beaten up by his neighbour and came here to take his frustration out?
 

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