The Root Of India-Pakistan Conflicts

Srinivas_K

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@Srinivas_K i already said 100 times we are not dealing with muslims is lapse of COMMUNICATION.Once we recognized the problem is Islam we will eradicate it. In India one single ROJA ROTI becomes International news 'coz Muslim is victim but same media ignored RAP*S,GANG RAP*S&Conversion,RIOTS committed by muslims.

I repeat if internet penetrated to minimum 33% in India, ACCHEDIN not only for Indian muslims but entire Subcontinent Muslims :pound:
Mate, People know these things but with the increase of violence against minorities in muslims countries, the daily news of ISIS and BOKO haram, the bloody conflicts between Islamic countries and other countries.
The atrocities happening to women and children in the name of Islam, People's anxiety levels world wide has increased.

Since 9/11 people started paying more attention to the Islamic terror.

People of India are tolerant bunch but off late the events that are taking place in the name of Islam is making them worried.

One of the main reason is Islam advocates hypocrisy, double standards in this age of globalization. This is the main drawback which is making people to hate Islam.

Other reason is when Islam comes to any place it destroys the culture and traditions of that place, it is like killing the soul of the Dharmic land (which stood for some fatastic ideas like unity in diversity, sarve jana sukinobhavantu, vasudaika kutumbam, tolerance, democracy etc..etc..). This must not happen at any cost.
 
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sorcerer

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Secondly, Islam doesn't authorizes to kill non Muslim. Remember there is no compulsion in Islam. Your iinterpretation of Dar Ul Harab is misguided. Islam allows co existence with infidel country
There are 109 clauses in your holybook about killing and against non muslims. (The Quran's Verses of Violence )
Third we want peace
YOu cant peace from within Pakistan, not from India. You want peace from own country. YOu want peace from your Govt, You want peace from USA. YOu want peace from Afghan. You want peace from China, unfortunately they are not selling it yet.

Fourth this time India is halting peace process not Pakistan
Yes, We are waiting for your Govt to clear its identity crisis. Even Nawas Sheriff doesnt know he is the PM or the Army chief is the PM. India as a country talks in only one language and Pakistan and its establishemnts talk in many language to other countries. We are just waiting for your nation to come to senses and terms
 

Srinivas_K

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Your concept regarding Islam are misplaced! The very meaning of word Islam is peace. Violence finds no place in Islam. Unfortunately image of Islam is distorted by some ill educated Mullahs!
Which mosque did these teachings to you dude !!]

Islam means submission, do not think or question just submit to the teachings of Quran and praise a man and place him next to GOD, If that man is not placed next to GOD you are not Muslim ..... Nice logic right!!

Obey or get killed. There are numerous verses which advocate violence. As you said there are other things which are nice concepts but the teachings and the way muslims behave, it seems they have taken the violent verses as their prime source. Making it like a cult practice.

Muhammad PBUH didn't copy but He revived Ibrahmic Religion and reformed that.
A progressive reformist should not teach intolerance, nor he must hate christians or Jews since the basic teachings are from their books. You can check out any reformists in the world they all advocate in a nice fashion such that their ideas will add to the existing ones.



Secondly, Islam doesn't authorizes to kill non Muslim. Remember there is no compulsion in Islam. Your iinterpretation of Dar Ul Harab is misguided. Islam allows co existence with infidel country
Show an example that a person has committed blasphemy and was not killed or beaten in pakistan!!

Third we want peace
Yes a Temporary one, when you gain strength then the mad rhetoric starts, like Hindu Baniyas are weak , Mugalistan, Dar-ul-Islam, Kuffars, etc..etc...,

Fourth this time India is halting peace process not Pakistan
Peace process for what , Kashmir is not the main problem. Please read the article completely.

Even if the peace process is smooth still it is not acceptable for muslims to give the same status to Kuffars.
 
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rock127

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The root cause of India-Pakistan conflict is Pakistan itself since it created itself on the basis of hate.

Pakis are fake Muslims and a blurr on Islam.
 

UsmanWrites

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There are 109 clauses in your holybook about killing and against non muslims. (The Quran's Verses of Violence )


YOu cant peace from within Pakistan, not from India. You want peace from own country. YOu want peace from your Govt, You want peace from USA. YOu want peace from Afghan. You want peace from China, unfortunately they are not selling it yet.


Yes, We are waiting for your Govt to clear its identity crisis. Even Nawas Sheriff doesnt know he is the PM or the Army chief is the PM. India as a country talks in only one language and Pakistan and its establishemnts talk in many language to other countries. We are just waiting for your nation to come to senses and terms
These verses are often quoted out of the context. Islam propagate only onething and that is peace.
 
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UsmanWrites

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Islam asks Muslims to think and do Ijtehad by using intellect even if Muslim does wrong while using intellect he will be rewarded!

Logic doesn't work on everything. Can anyone prove how first human came to this world logically?

Islam believes in co existence and we can marry Christians and Jews.

Give me an example in INdia where someone made the mockery of your bhagwan and roam free!

We don't have any problem with Kufaars as long as they don't mess with muslims
 
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Srinivas_K

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Islam asks Muslims to think and do Ijtehad by using intellect even if Muslim does wrong while using intellect he will be rewarded!
Quran says that but how many of them follow and practice ??

Logic doesn't work on everything. Can anyone prove how first human came to this world logically?
This is the age of science and reason and most of the religions are evolving !!

What ever your beliefs .... no issue with that, But the political angle of Islam and intolerance is the main issue.

Islam believes in co existence and we can marry Christians and Jews.
After converting them to Islam, any one who leaves Islam is wajibul qatl. Hypocracy !!

Then there is a big issue of forced conversions.

Give me an example in INdia where someone made the mockery of your bhagwan and roam free!
Zakir Naik, Owaisis ... the list goes on ....

We don't have any problem with Kufaars as long as they don't mess with muslims
Is this a threat or what??

Muslims have the problem with non believers, they will riots when they reach 20 % of the total population in any area. Some kind of delusional hatred because of brainwashing they under go.
 
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Srinivas_K

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These verses are often quoted out of the context. Islam propagate only onething and that is peace.
For Muslim radicals the end justifies the means. After conquering all of the earth then there will be peace in Dar-Ul-Islam, to achieve that bloodshed must continue for ages.
 

UsmanWrites

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Every religion have some extremists who intetpret religion in wrong way but it doesn't mean that religion should be viewed from the extremist eyes!

For instance in Hinduism can you jutify the concept of Satti? Why you people kill woman when her husband die?

How can you jutify the concept of Achoot/ lower class people?

The role model for you guys is Sita who proved her fidelity to her husband by walking through flames?

And Cow is something very sacred to you how can anmial be sacred infront of human intellect. You talked about logic now prove this logically?

I didn't want to heart your sentiments and I don't interpret Hinduism throug such narrow definitions so you guys should do the same when it comes to Islam!
 
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Ray

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Islam is the most modern religion on the face of the earth but unfortunately hijacked by some Mullahs. However, change is bound to happen!

Linking religion to Pakistan India rivalry is nothing short of naivety! True, this factor is responsible for the partition od India but the post Partition rivalry is owing to the conservative establishment on both sides of the borders! Concurrently, Pakistan want to cooperate but modi is in love with the dick of RSS
How is the most modern religion on the face of the earth?

If you follow the Quaran and the Hadith in letter and spirit without any allowance to keep pace with the contemporary times and reality, then it surely cannot be the most modern religion on the face of the earth. The Quaran and Hadith has relevance to the Medieval times.

I am afraid that you are in a mind block.

Religion is no big deal in India, but let us see if it is in Pakistan.

Here it is to awaken you from your fond delusion.

The Subtle Subversion
The State of Curricula and Textbooks in Pakistan


compiled by
A. H. Nayyar and Ahmed Salim

Summary
Pakistan's public education system has an important role in determining how successful we shall be in achieving the goal of a progressive, moderate and democratic Pakistan. A key requirement is that children must learn to understand and value this goal and cherish the values of truthfulness, honesty, responsibility, equality, justice, and peace that go with it.

The identity and value system of children is strongly shaped by the national curricula and textbooks in Social Studies, English, Urdu and Civics from Class I to Class XII. The responsibility for designing them lies with the Curriculum Wing of the Ministry of Education and the provincial Text Book Boards.

However, a close analysis by a group of independent scholars shows that for over two ecades the curricula and the officially mandated textbooks in these subjects have contained material that is directly contrary to the goals and values of a progressive, moderate and democratic Pakistan.

The March 2002 revision of curricula undertaken by the Curriculum Wing of the Ministry of Education did not address the problems that existed in earlier curriculum documents. In some cases, these problems are now even worse.

Our analysis found that some of the most significant problems in the current curriculum and textbooks are:

"¢ Inaccuracies of fact and omissions that serve to substantially distort the nature and
significance of actual events in our history.
"¢ Insensitivity to the actually existing religious diversity of the nation
"¢ Incitement to militancy and violence, including encouragement of Jehad and Shahadat
"¢ Perspectives that encourage prejudice, bigotry and discrimination towards fellow
citizens, especially women and religious minorities, and other nations.
"¢ A glorification of war and the use of force
"¢ Omission of concepts, events and material that could encourage critical self-awareness
among students
"¢ Outdated and incoherent pedagogical practices that hinder the development of interest
and insight among students
To give a few examples:

The books on Social Studies systematically misrepresent events that have happened over the past several decades of Pakistan's history, including those which are within living memory of many people.

This history is narrated with distortions and omissions. The causes, effects, and responsibility for key events are presented so as to leave a false understanding of our national experience. A large part of the history of this region is also simply omitted, making it difficult to properly interpret events, and narrowing the perspective that should be open to students. Worse, the material is presented in a way that encourages the student to arginalise and be hostile towards other social groups and people in the region.

The curricula and textbooks are insensitive to the religious diversity of the Pakistani society.

While the teaching of Islamiat is compulsory for Muslim students, on average over a quarter of the material in books to teach Urdu as a language is on one religion. The books on English have lessons with religious content. Islamiat is also taught in Social Studies classes.

Thus, the entire education is heavily loaded with religious teachings, reflecting in this respect a very narrow view held by a minority among Muslims that all the education be essentially that of Islamiat.

There is an undercurrent of exclusivist and divisive tendencies at work in the subject matter recommended for studies in the curriculum documents as well as in textbooks. Pakistani nationalism is repeatedly defined in a manner that is bound to exclude non-Muslim Pakistanis from either being Pakistani nationals or from even being good human beings.

Much of this material would run counter to any efforts at national integration.

The Constitution of Pakistan is cited but misinterpreted in making the reading of the Qur'an compulsory. The Constitution requires the compulsory reading of the Qur'an for Muslim students alone, but in complete disregard for the restriction, it is included in the textbooks of a compulsory subject like Urdu which is to be read by students of all religions. The Class III Urdu textbook has 7 lessons on Nazra Qur'an and its translations. The Urdu and Social Studies curricula even ask for all the students to be taught Islamic religious practices like amaz and Wuzu.

Besides severe pedagogical problems like uneven standards of lessons in books on English and Urdu languages and bad English even in the English language books, glaring contradictions exist in books on Social Studies, making student unable to be a critical learner.

The curriculum as well as the books lay an excessive emphasis on the "Ideology of Pakistan" which is a post-independence construction devised by those political forces which were initially inimical to the creation of Pakistan to sanctify their politics.

Most of the problems cited above have their origin in the curriculum documents and syllabi nd the instructions to textbooks authors issued form the Curriculum Wing of the Ministry of Education. As long as the same institutions continue to be asked to devise curricula, the problems will persist. Repeated interventions from the post-1988 civilian governments failed to overcome the institutional resilience.

The problems get further accentuated at the level of textbook writing where authors produce books that are heavily loaded with doctrinal material and are devoid of much useful instructional content. The provincial textbook boards are to be held squarely responsible for repeatedly failing to produce good and useful textbooks......

We propose that in the curriculum and textbooks for these disciplines, any changes be guided by the following principles:
1. Falsehoods, distortions and omissions concerning our national history needs to be replaced by accounts of events that are supported by rigorous modern scholarship
2. Material encouraging or justifying discrimination against women, religious and ethnic minorities, and other nations, needs to be replaced with positive values of social equality, mutual respect and responsibility, justice and peace.
3. Arbitrary concepts, incoherence, inconsistency and other pedagogical problems need to be replaced by a systematic set of modern ideas about history, society and identity based on well established academic disciplines.

A simple example will be offered here of what might practically be done regarding putting these principles into practice in the national curriculum. Children are presently taught Pakistan Studies as a replacement for the teaching of history and geography as full-fledged disciplines. In the first 25 years of Pakistan, this was not the case. Children at that time were taught the very early history of South Asia, including pre-historic times. The books described in detail the ancient religious mythology of this region, the early great Hindu and Buddhist kingdoms of the Mauriyas and the Guptas, the Muslim conquests and establishment of Muslim sultanates in North India. This long historical perspective of our region is absent in more recent textbooks. Instead, children are now taught that the history of Pakistan starts from the day the first Muslim set foot in India. It would be useful to return to the teaching of history and geography.

The goal should not, however, be a return to a decades old notion of history as the stories of kings and queens, their wars and conquests, and geography as dealing with maps, names and places. These disciplines, like many others, have undergone a profound transformation in other societies. Such changes need to be incorporated if Pakistan's children are to develop the understanding and skills they will need to keep up with their peers around the world in the twenty-first century. In an age of globalisation, Pakistan's children need to learn about their society in the larger context of other societies of the world, and understand how their history and geography and identity is inextricably linked to that of many others......

Four themes emerge most strongly as constituting the bulk of the curricula and textbooks of the three compulsory subjects.
1. that Pakistan is for Muslims alone;
2. that Islamiat is to be forcibly taught to all the students, whatever their faith, including a compulsory reading of Qur'an;
3. that Ideology of Pakistan is to be internalized as faith, and hate be created against Hindus and India;
4. and students are to be urged to take the path of Jehad and Shahadat......

Or, the Class 6 book says:
Who am I? I am a Muslim. I am a Pakistani. I love my country and I love my people. "¦ You know that you are a Muslim and your religion is Islam.

It conveys a very harmful message: being a Pakistani is equated with being a Muslim, and that only Muslims are true Pakistani citizens. Patriotism has been equated with Islamic zeal.

The way it has been said clearly alienates religious minorities.

A book lists Acchi baten (good deeds). Among them:
Good people are those who read the Qur'an and teach the Qur'an to others,
implying that those of another faith cannot be good people.

Compulsory Teaching of Islamiat to Non-Muslim Students

The educational material attempts to teach Islamiat to all the students irrespective of their faith through the compulsory subjects of Social/Pakistan Studies, Urdu and English.

Although non-Muslims are not required to take the fourth compulsory subject of Islamiat, there is an extraordinary incentive for them in the form of 25% additional marks for learning and taking examinations in Islamiat.

The curricula of all these subjects require every Pakistani, irrespective of his (her) faith, to love, respect, be proud of and practice Islamic principles, traditions, customs, rituals, etc.,

Both the curricula and textbooks are enlightening in this respect.
It is time you wake up to the reality called Pakistan and the poison that you spread and quit blaming others.

You are suffering as a Nation because of your flawed priorities and dogmatic pursuance and spreading of a Medieval concept without any regards to the contemporary realities.

It is Pakistan which teaches Hate, not others.
 
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Srinivas_K

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Every religion have some extremists who intetpret religion in wrong way but it doesn't mean that religion should be viewed from the extremist eyes!
Let me clarify this point, If you abuse Christianity, Bhuddism or Hinduism. They will not come at you in rage. Where as Muslims does that.

One of the main reason when a person comes at you with rage is "when a person know he cannot defend some thing or a person's life events".


For instance in Hinduism can you jutify the concept of Satti? Why you people kill woman when her husband die?
The practice is abolished and it is considered as crime.

How can you jutify the concept of Achoot/ lower class people?
The ultimate law is Indian Constitution which gives equal rights and duties, and not the sastras or smritis.

The role model for you guys is Sita who proved her fidelity to her husband by walking through flames?
These are epics, To tell you Ram and Sita are not ordinary. They are considered as Avatars of some super Humans. No sane Hindu asks his wife to go through flames to prove her fidelity.

May be they are aliens .... who knows if Rama was an alien or some kind of higher being came to earth like Thor who comes to earth when the worlds/realms are aligned. There is a description in Ramayan about the planetary alignment and all during Rams birth.

Superstition aside, Only good advocated to be followed from these epics.


And Cow is something very sacred to you how can anmial be sacred infront of human intellect. You talked about logic now prove this logically?
Worship is different from respect.

One of the reason why west point to cow rituals in India and wonder is that in the middle east there is a concept of "Bull worship" prior to Abrahamic religions



This is completely different from Dharmic philosophy.

Cow is respected and taken care because it gives a lot to Human civilization. It is cow that made Human from Hunter gatherer to farmer and from then on civilization took off.

I didn't want to heart your sentiments and I don't interpret Hinduism throug such narrow definitions so you guys should do the same when it comes to Islam!
Every thing is open to discuss, logic and fact is the only thing that helps !!
 
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Ray

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Every religion have some extremists who intetpret religion in wrong way but it doesn't mean that religion should be viewed from the extremist eyes!

For instance in Hinduism can you jutify the concept of Satti? Why you people kill woman when her husband die?

How can you jutify the concept of Achoot/ lower class people?

The role model for you guys is Sita who proved her fidelity to her husband by walking through flames?

And Cow is something very sacred to you how can anmial be sacred infront of human intellect. You talked about logic now prove this logically?

I didn't want to heart your sentiments and I don't interpret Hinduism throug such narrow definitions so you guys should do the same when it comes to Islam!
Good man, the lantern, you are living in your Medieval mindset to believe that other religions are still in the timewrap as Islam.

Suttee? Heavens!
Caste? Check the so called Untouchable in high offices and the law.
Cow maybe sacred, but it is still treated as a cow and not something totally Divine, except as stone statues in temples where they are in some places.

Islam is in a timewrap and you see the world with your Islamic timewrapped mindset, without realising that the world religion has moved on.

Even Catholicism which was dogmatic is given contemporary fresh air by the new Pope.

And you? The so called most modern religion of the world as you claim is mwaging war for a illusionary Caliphate!

And even killing. without hesitation or remorse, your co religionist if they are Shia or Ahemdiyas!

Timewrapped lost souls with delusionary hatred to all and everyone but your own sect.

BTW, can you justify the requirement of marrying four wives and the concept of Gender bias of the three time Qalat spoken being the end all of all solemnity of the institution of marriage?

is marriage a circus and a joke?

Is marriage something like the regularity of changing a car on the emergence of a new model?

Good that you did not bring up the issue of Cow Urine. Yes, that is a part of the medicinal practices that has nothing to do with religion.

But drinking camel urine is mandatory in Islam as per the Hadith.

The hadeeth referred to by the questioner is a saheeh hadeeth, in which it says that some people came to Madeenah and fell sick. The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) told them to drink the milk and urine of camels, and they recovered and grew fat. In the story it also says that they apostatized and killed the camel-herder, then the Muslims caught them and executed them. Narrated by al-Bukhaari (2855) and Muslim (1671). With regard to the health benefits of drinking the milk and urine of camels, they are many, and they are well known to the earlier generations of medical science and they have been proven by modern scientific research.
http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Camel_Urine_and_Islam
So With regard to the health benefits of drinking the milk and urine of camels, they are many, and they are well known to the earlier generations of medical science and they have been proven by modern scientific research.

So to Muslim it is medical research and beneficial, but for Muslims to bring cow urine is not medical requirements?

Logic!
 
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UsmanWrites

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I'm laughing after reading your answer but I won't utter words because your religious sentiments would be hurt
 

Srinivas_K

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I'm laughing after reading your answer but I won't utter words because your religious sentiments would be hurt
Please enlighten us ... we are lost souls :lol:

GOD, universe and other things which are not explainable through science are not that simple that a single book can explain !!!
 

Ray

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I'm laughing after reading your answer but I won't utter words because your religious sentiments would be hurt
Laugh as much as you can, because I will laugh last.

He laugh best who laughs last.

Your false contentions lie exposed.

I have no religion and so noting will be hurt, but I assure you I can hurt your sentiments real bad.

Thank God Indian Muslims are not such boorish oafs,

They have brains and that is why they discarded the contention of Pakistan being a land of the Pure.

It is the most Impure Nation that kills co religionists and forces minorities to learn Islam through the officially sponsored textbooks!

Are you a nation or some type of a open air madarssa?
 
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sorcerer

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Islam asks Muslims to think and do Ijtehad by using intellect even if Muslim does wrong while using intellect he will be rewarded!
I read that there are 164 quotes on waging Jihad. Well what else can you call it other than violent. Jihad itself cannot be justified by intelligence.

Logic doesn't work on everything. Can anyone prove how first human came to this world logically?
Logic is Common sense .Common sense is the basic building block of reasoning.
There is theory of evolution and various other theories stipulated and proved by something called science.

Give me an example in INdia where someone made the mockery of your bhagwan and roam free!
You can use the internet. There will be protest but not any beheading on killing beacuse of that. We indians are matured in our responses

We don't have any problem with Kufaars as long as they don't mess with muslims
The problem is , you dont have a real defenition for the word "mess" . THis is exactly the reason behind the fact that every country and every other nation is messing with you cuz basically, your nation and its people have something called an identity crisis vis a vis your religion.
 
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Ray

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We don't have any problem with Kufaars as long as they don't mess with muslims
Actually you are messing with your own coreligionists.

We watch with horror that this is what is Pure in the Land of the Pure.

But none can blame you. The Muslims were the best kasais (butchers) in Undivided India and they still are.

When you are messing with your own, why should others mess with you. They are actually enjoying the mayhem and the crass stupidity and gore.

There will be nothing to mess around in a few years time.

You would have killed each other by then.

Desist from making a fool of yourself and insulting Islam and doing disservice to the Muslim people, especially of India.
 
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The Last Stand

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Every religion have some extremists who intetpret religion in wrong way but it doesn't mean that religion should be viewed from the extremist eyes!

For instance in Hinduism can you jutify the concept of Satti? Why you people kill woman when her husband die?
Sati is illegal and has all but stopped in India. Maybe there are a few incidents in remote villages, where the culprits cannot be punished.

Hinduism has preached equality of male and female for centuries. God is not viewed as a person of any sex. We do not kill women. Maybe you want to talk about your perfect world, where a wronged woman needs four respected men to verify that she was the victim of a crime. Here we need only forensics.

Remember that not all Indians are Hindus. We have more muslims than you, and if they were not happy with conditions here, wouldn't they have migrated to your perfect nation?

How can you jutify the concept of Achoot/ lower class people?
First of all, there is no concept of lower-class in India, other than by income. Initially, people were classified into varnas based on what sort of occupation they did, and the Hindu people divided themselves into sects. Later castes did not depend on jobs but based on what caste your parent was in. Now, India is working towards freeing people from these shackles. When Indians were dissatisfied with their religions, they do not hesitate to go away from it. Case in point, Buddhism and Jainism - which preach equality of all people.

Hinduism does not preach segregating people into upper class and lower class. That was done by the power hungry idiots who wanted privilege for themselves. And for people who were oppressed in the past, we provide reservation.

Maybe you are thinking about Ahmadis and other sects when you think 'lower class'

The role model for you guys is Sita who proved her fidelity to her husband by walking through flames?
No.

Indians place family pride on a high pedestal.

We recognize the fact that Ram was human, and he did a mistake in abandoning Sita. And also, our role models don't endorse polygamy and child marriage.

And Cow is something very sacred to you how can anmial be sacred infront of human intellect. You talked about logic now prove this logically?
It is a belief. Man has worshipped fire, water, air, trees etc. What's the problem with respecting the cow, which provided many families with a source of income, milk and dairy foods, as sacred?

Also, not all Hindus think that cows are sacred. There are many thousands of Hindus in India who eat beef.

Then, by your logic, why does Islam say that pigs must not be touched? In non-'Islamic' countries, pigs are handled freely and pork is eaten, and God does not punish them.

I didn't want to heart your sentiments and I don't interpret Hinduism throug such narrow definitions so you guys should do the same when it comes to Islam!
Hinduism is so diverse, no one can strictly define it, even if they tried to. :)

Same goes for religions.

P.S. Please type with some patience.
 

Ray

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I didn't want to heart your sentiments and I don't interpret Hinduism throug such narrow definitions so you guys should do the same when it comes to Islam!
What heart?

You cannot interpret any religion since you seem to be not knowing even your own religion or your dogmas of your own country.

I hope you were educated.

Why I ask is that you are not even aware of the falsehood and illogical stance in your own textbook that has been highlighted by Muslim scholars as I have appended in one of my posts above.

Where you force non Muslims to learn Islam and all that through the textbooks, no such religious teaching is in Indian textbooks.

While your history starts with the Muslims setting foot in India, our history embraces all, including the usurpers and the invaders with grace and compassion.
 

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