Discussion in 'China' started by pyromaniac, Mar 1, 2009.
lol you gotta do better than that.
Dont worry those roads will forever be empty according to what our chini expert said lol
NATOâ€™s Ring of Fire: The Eastern Flank, China and the Indian â€œLinchpinâ€
China is a poor juggernaut by most standards, albeit with extraordinary bright spots. Chinaâ€™s rise has been steady since the days of Mao Zedong and if you ask around the developed world most will tell you they believe itâ€™s the top economic power reflecting a rising public image rather than a reality. Americans, for instance, know nearly everything is â€œMade in China,â€ but most could scarcely fathom the immensity of many of its cities. In 18 years it is predicted that China will have over 221 cities boasting over 1 million residents.
China is no doubt standing tall these days and looking forward to the day when it, by objective standards, reclaims its historical role as the largest economy in the world. One of the most ancient cultures on Earth, China is ready to take a position of leadership once again and if not globally, at the very least, within the region.Itâ€™s â€œnear peerâ€, the United States, currently enjoying the largest and most advanced economy on Earth with commensurate hegemony, is no doubt watching these developments with much caution and anxiety.
This is a layout of just some of the players involved in the Sino-Russian containment zone NATO and the U.S. are attempting to install. The real containment sphere, as it were, is 4-dimensional incorporating land, sea, air, space, and the internet.
Eastern Flank, South China Sea
China for one understands the U.S.â€™s â€œGlobal Force for Goodâ€ â€“ as the Navyâ€™s advertisement heralds â€“ has held dominion over the Pacific since the end of World War II. The Chinese Navy has also recently recognized the Obama administrationâ€™s focus on the Pacific and away from over a decade in the Middle East.
The Taiwan Straight crisis of 1996, during the Clinton administration, provided China with an impetus for investing in â€œanti-access, area denialâ€ technologies. China has since been rapidly developing its own indigenous warfare technologies to ebb American hegemony in the area and secure what it believes are traditional Chinese claims on its peripheries believed to be rich in natural resources.
To that effect China has recently tested a wide range of cutting edge armaments. The most startling development is referred to as the â€œCarrier Killerâ€ â€“ the DF-21D â€“ designed to arc into the stratosphere and explode onto the deck of a U.S. carrier. China has also retrofitted and sea trialed a retired Russian aircraft carrier, debuted its first stealth fighter last August and overall has increased its military expenditures substantially.
Since 2002 Chinaâ€™s submarine fleet, according to the Rand Corporation, has increased from eight to 29. In 2006 these submarines became so quiet that one was able to surface amidst a small fleet of U.S. subs hitherto undetected, causing quite a stir. In the darkest of suspicions some have speculated whether the missile seen off the coast of Los Angeles in 2010 was an in-your-face example of this deep threat.
It was recently reported China announced how it would go to war against the U.S. fleet should it feel the need to do so. By firing multiple missiles at the same time, no doubt deploying the Carrier Killer (when itâ€™s ready), China would prevent U.S. aircraft carriers and their fighter jets from being able to penetrate Chinese territory.
In response, the U.S. Navy is developing long-range carrier drones in the hopes of eventually providing a fleet of pilotless bombers. The U.S. military and NASA in a partial realization of that goal just test flew the Phantom Eye â€“ â€œa ginormous, hydrogen powered uber-droneâ€ able to stay in the air for 4 days at an altitude of 65,000 feet. It is not deployable from an aircraft carrier yet, but you get the picture.
Outside of direct U.S. confrontation the South China Sea is seeing an arms race reminiscent of the Cold War. It is clear Chinaâ€™s ravenous appetite for natural resources is whetting an appetite for military grade technology. Defense industriesâ€™ top arms dealers are hurrying to meat the demand as the nations of Taiwan, Japan, South Korea, Malaysia, Philippines, and Singapore among others were all courted recently in at an international arms expo:
Eastern Flank, The South Pacific
In the final analysis of the Eastern flank surrounding China and Russia, it is important to note that as Chinaâ€™s brown water navy evolves into a long range blue water force U.S. â€œmutual defenseâ€ treaties with the Philippines, Japan and Taiwan will overlap. But the U.S. is no longer the only player in the region, NATO has just gone global and has expanded into the Pacific, signing a partnership deal with New Zealand.
With thousands of U.S. Marines now being stationed in Australia, its Navy looking forward to access at Port Darwin in the north and more Aussie troop commitments Sec. Gen. Rassmussenâ€™s words weigh heavy on the region. â€œAustralia and New Zealand may be far away geographically, but they are very close to us in terms of values and commitment. Together, we will discuss how we can come even closer together.â€ As the Pacific becomes more crowded the opportunity for butting heads grows by leaps and bounds.
The Indian â€œLinchpinâ€
Last weekend Tim Roemer, former ambassador to India, opined in the Washington Post about the improving ties with the largest democracy on the planet â€“ India. However, rather than elucidate his audience on the economic opportunities first he detailed the U.S. tactical relationship just three paragraphs in.
â€œSecurity cooperation has never been better. The United States and India share unprecedented amounts of highly sensitive intelligence and have started a homeland security dialogue; the United States has joined in more combined defense exercises with India than with any other ally. Defense sales are at record levels. We also have historic new collaboration on nuclear nonproliferation issues.â€ (emphasis supplied)
To be sure, this part of the world is swarming with American Special Forces, in fact, they are in five South Asian countries: Nepal, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, Maldives and India. The Pentagon says it is â€œworking closelyâ€ with Indiaâ€™s elite units, preparing them for showdowns with Lashkar-e-Taiba, a Pakistan based militant group blamed for the 2008 Mumbai attacks with ties to the ubiquitous and ever resilient forever enemy â€“ Al-Qaeda. As NATO nations withdraw troops Secretary of Defense Leon Panetta welcomes a larger role for India in Afghanistan.
As this article was being finished Leon Panetta literally took the words right off the title and affirmed everything we suspected. While virtually all available geography available is covered in the Pacific Rim the most populous nation with nearly the largest economy outside China remains at an armâ€™s distance. It is Panettaâ€™s goal to change that vowing today to expand defense ties with India in order to safeguard the â€œcrossroadsâ€ of the global economy.
â€œFor this relationship to truly provide security for this region and for the world, we will need to deepen our defense and security cooperation. This is why I have come to India,â€ Mr. Panetta told an audience at the Institute for Defense Studies and Analyses. While analysts see India preferring some prudent breathing room Panetta sees that the relationship â€œcan and should become more strategic, more practical, and more collaborative.â€
Considering China has claimed, at least for now, its own strategic keystone in the partnership with Pakistan and the deep port of Gwadar India might be a little more receptive to U.S. overtures. According to Brahma Chellaney, professor of strategic studies at the Centre for Policu Research in New Delhi:
â€œChina is trying to undercut the U.S.â€™s numerous interests in Pakistanâ€¦Gwadar was the linchpin of [the] â€˜string of pearlsâ€™ strategy and the latest news adds to that. India faces a unique challenge that no other country does. Its two nuclear armed neighbors are closely aligned and are stepping up joint military programs. India will have to step up its deterrent capabilities.â€
As we have outlined the first chain islands nearest to China, with few exceptions, are within the U.S. envelope, however, the subcontinent is essential to full containment. Panetta said the new U.S. strategy sought to â€œâ€œexpand [U.S.] military partnerships and [U.S.] presence in the arc extending from the Western Pacific and East Asia into the Indian Ocean region and South Asiaâ€¦Defense cooperation with India is a linchpin in this strategy.â€
It surely is. Expect India to be in the news more and more
Re: NATOâ€™s Ring of Fire: The Eastern Flank, China and the Indian â€œLinchpinâ€
lately and historically, india has been in the news for all the wrong reasons.
can anyone say commonwealth games!
Re: NATOâ€™s Ring of Fire: The Eastern Flank, China and the Indian â€œLinchpinâ€
Historically? What has Australia been in the news for? Being the largest amalgam of criminals in the world, being for a White Supremacist country? You know what your problem is don't you? Your ancestors were such vile creatures, the lowest form of scum the you guys in the present generation did not get a chance of being human beings.
Re: NATOâ€™s Ring of Fire: The Eastern Flank, China and the Indian â€œLinchpinâ€
yes, but your are talking about the lower class. the class that serves the elite which were always there to manage and control them. Don't forget that the convicts didn't just sail to Australia by themselves.
Not every Australian is British or even of European origin.
There is a whole lot of Asians and others to include a huge Chinese population!
The Chinese in Australia have great affinity towards Red China as was seen during the Australian phase of the Olympic Flame to Beijing!
english maybe the language of government and commerce in India, but I think if you include the chinese diaspora alll over the world, I would have to say there
are more english speaking chinese than indians.
Top universities in Asia are all concentrated in the far east, eg. Singapore, Hong Kong, Taiwan ,Korea Japan and China and literacy rate is much higher
there too.Most are bilingual like me.In fact, I do think a person well-versed in chinese has many advantages .The language is more developed than english
for many applications --literary works, for example. It is also good for commerce and science. The language is gaining popularity around the world and many statesmen
from the west like Kevin Rudd and Russian diplomat Rogachev speak the language.For Many of these people, once immersed in the culture, there is no
turning back.They become "chinese "and are immensely proud of that fact .There is something about the chinese culture that has made China such a dynamic.
one.If you look at China's achievements , whether in science , art, technology or even wars,, there is no parallel in history where a poor and backward nation
can come this far this fast.For many english speakers, I say : learn chinese, you will discover a whole new world.
Rise of China and US, with India factor
I have voted the 3rd option, "The United States in its backyard", considering the facts that, if Indian Military is capable enough to defend itself from China, then more China rises, more US will go down which will benefit the whole world this way :thumb:
=> with the fact that more powerful the Chinese Military, more Military build up will be done in India itself, and the time China will have brought US to its feet/ shoes, US will suddenly find India also a similar powerful country, close to China itself
my theory is based on the facts that, "only external threats unite the nation."
"only a powerful neighbor help us prepare a powerful military."
"only war threats/ or direct wars prepare Army Personals, otherwise they may lose their war effectiveness."
"Rise of a Neighbor Country, militarily/economically, will finally result in similar developments in India too, this way."
(like how historians clearly say that even if Indian Economy was 9 times bigger that British till the 18th century, bigger than Whole European Economy itself, but so rich CHina/India lost to West as West had better arms, more wars they used to fight, better they were in fighting from back etc.....:thumb:
@jack. Another Chinese turncoat wearing American flag!
pay attention to the message not the messenger. @mods this binayak apparently has to resort to flagging issue with nothing valid towards the content
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It is so funny that so many guys arguing china here,while on most Chinese webs, nobody even mention India. For Chinese aspect, India is not a threat right now.
same here buddy we Indians don't take the chini threat seriously anymore as we have strengthened our defences in the North-Eastern part of India.i think we learnt from our mistakes in '62 and took several measures to nullify the chini threat to Arunachal Pradesh.today its an impregnable fortress thanks to the policies of our Govt.
The '62 is also never mentioned by the media or history textbook in China. It appears that most of my Chinese friends know nothing about it. I suppose all these threats on border are just on the government level and Chinese government don't want to rise the hatred with India. While the conflicts between China and Japan, or between China and US are totally different issues.
Generally, I have no trust of any governments . They are either cunning or stupid and lies all the time.
I agree that Chinese Govt does not want to provoke hatred towards India. In fact, lately ,Chinese media has started providing positive news and views about India.
China probably thinks that India and China will be good neighbors and do a lot of business down the road.
exactly , or at least , something similar ....
strategic implication is that the usa has to get together , and lead, a new coalition of forces
just like it did to bring down saddam hussein !
of course the scale and size of this new coalition of forces will be different ,
but the principle would remain the same !
so while there will be some changes and uncertainties therein due to the larger scale of things,
much of the foundation we would already have been used to - as that remains the same !
namely, to bring down the evil forces which oppose democracy
it's up to the usa to decide the timing
when they feel it is appropriate to tackle the dragon question
meanwhile it seems the usa is playing around
but it could be for some logical reason ?
at the cost of 30-50 millions of american lives and 20 plus american biggiest cities? I don't think so!
If no one even is even interested to join a new coalition of forces against north korea, how can you build up a force against a country 100 times stronger?
So, which one wants to provide its own land as the battle field for this Sino-US war? India?
Are you working in Bollywood?
You know, it always sounds ironic to me hearing an Indian bragging how Americans will fight a war against Chineses.
The biggest beneficiaries of the rise of China and India would be these two countries themselves. If both see themselves as the France and Germany of Asia and forge a strategic relationship to jointly lead Asia, that would be the end of Western dominance of world affairs and the beginning of a new Golden Age of Asian prosperity. The need of the hour is for China and India to settle the boundary question as soon as possible by letting each other hold on to territory it is already in possession of. Such a deal would be the equivalent of the India-US nuclear deal in terms of the boost it will give to relations with China.
These countries are the oldest civilizations in the world and were once seen as formidable entities completely different and in many ways superior to Western civilization. Together, they account for over 40% of humanity. An FTA between China and India on the lines of NAFTA would make the EU and North America totally irrelevant. I hope the leaders of both countries have the wisdom to co-operate and work together to secure the future of human race.
Do our Chinese members think likewise? @no smoking @t_co @J20! @amoy @kickok1975 @badguy2000
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