The Monarchist Thread ヽ(゚ー゚ヽ) *praise*

Tactical Frog

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Lakshmibai !

Would a woman be allowed to rule India ? I have noticed they were NO women in the " Greatest Kings in Indian History" thread. While Russia, England are famous for having great tsarinas and queens.
 
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VaghaDeva

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Yes provided that she's pretty and nice and does a good job


Abbakka Chowta
Abbakka Chowta
Rani of Ullal

Life Size statue of the Chowta Queen Abbakka in Ullal
Reign 1525 – ?? 1570s
Predecessor Tirumala Raya Chowta
Spouse Banga Lakshmappa Arasa
House Chowta
Religion Jain
Rani Abbakka Chowta was the Queen of Ullal who fought the Portuguese in the latter half of the 16th century. She belonged to the Chowta dynasty who ruled over parts of coastal Karnataka (Tulu Nadu), India. Their capital was Puttige. The port town of Ullal served as their subsidiary capital. The Portuguese made several attempts to capture Ullal as it was strategically placed. But Abbakka repulsed each of their attacks for over four decades. For her bravery, she came to be known as Abhaya Rani (The fearless queen).[1][2] She was also one of the earliest Indians to fight the colonial powers and is sometimes regarded as the 'first woman freedom fighter of India'.[3][4] In the state of Karnataka, she is celebrated along with Rani Kittur Chennamma, Keladi Chennamma and Onake Obavva, as the foremost women warriors and patriots.[5]

Contents
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Early life[edit]
The Chowtas followed the system of matrilineal inheritance (Aliyasantana) by which Tirumala Raya, Abbakka's uncle, crowned her the queen of Ullal. He also forged a matrimonial alliance for Abbakka with Lakshmappa Arasa, the King of the Banga principality in Mangalore.[6] This alliance was to later prove a source of worry for the Portuguese. Tirumala Raya also trained Abbakka in the different aspects of warfare and military strategy. The marriage, however was short lived and Abbakka returned to Ullal. Her husband thus longed for revenge against Abbakka and was to later join the Portuguese in their fight against Abbakka.

Historical background[edit]
After overrunning Goa and taking control of it, the Portuguese turned their attention southwards and along the coast. They first attacked the South Kanara coast in 1525 and destroyed the Mangalore port. Ullal was a prosperous port and a hub of the spice trade to Arabia and other countries in the west. Being the profitable trading center that it was, the Portuguese, the Dutch and the British vied with one another for control of the region as well as the trade routes. They however, had not been able to make much headway as the resistance from the local chieftains was very strong. The local rulers even forged alliances cutting across caste and religion lines.

Though Abbakka was a Jain by faith, her administration was well represented by Hindus and Muslims. Her army too consisted of people of all sects and castes. She even forged alliances with the Zamorin of Calicut. Together, they kept the Portuguese at bay. The marital ties with the neighbouring Banga dynasty added further strength to the alliance of the local rulers. She also gained support from powerful king Venkatappanayaka of Bidnur and ignored the threat of Portuguese forces.[7]

Battles against the Portuguese[edit]
The Portuguese, clearly upset by Abbakka's tactics, demanded that she pay them tribute but Abbakka refused to yield. In 1555, the Portuguese sent Admiral Dom Álvaro da Silveira to fight her after she refused to pay them tribute.[8] In the battle that followed, Rani Abbakka once again managed to hold her own and repulsed the attack successfully.

In 1557, the Portuguese plundered Mangalore and laid waste to it. In 1568, they turned their attention to Ullal but Abbakka Rani resisted them yet again. João Peixoto, a Portuguese general and a fleet of soldiers were sent by the Portuguese Viceroy António Noronha. They managed to capture the city of Ullal and also entered the royal court. Abbakka Rani, however, escaped and took refuge in a mosque. The same night, she gathered around 200 of her soldiers and mounted an attack on the Portuguese. In the battle that ensued, General Peixoto was killed,[9] seventy Portuguese soldiers were taken prisoners and many of the Portuguese retreated. In further attacks, Abbakka Rani and her supporters killed Admiral Mascarenhas and the Portuguese were also forced to vacate the Mangalore fort.

In 1569 however, the Portuguese not only regained the Mangalore fort but also captured Kundapur (Basrur). Despite these gains, Abbakka Rani continued to remain a source of threat. With the help of the queen's estranged husband, they mounted attacks on Ullal. Furious battles followed but Abbakka Rani held her own. In 1570, she formed an alliance with the Bijapur Sultan of Ahmed Nagar and the Zamorine of Calicut, who were also opposing the Portuguese. Kutty Pokar Markar, the Zamorine's general fought on behalf of Abbakka and destroyed the Portuguese fort at Mangalore but while returning he was killed by the Portuguese. Following these losses and her husband's treachery, Abbakka lost the war, was arrested and jailed. However, even in prison she revolted and died fighting.

Folklore and legend[edit]
According to traditional accounts, she was an immensely popular queen and this is also attested by the fact that she is even today a part of folklore. The queen's story has been retold from generation to generation through folk songs and Yakshagana, a popular folk theatre in [Coastal Karnataka]. In Bhuta Kola, a local ritual dance, the persona in trance recounts the great deeds of Abbakka Mahadevi. Abbakka is portrayed as dark and good looking, always dressed in simple clothes like a commoner. She is portrayed as a caring queen who worked late into the night dispensing justice. Legends also claim that Abbakka was the last known person to have used the Agnivana (fire-arrow) in her fight against the Portuguese. Some accounts also claim that she had two equally valiant daughters who fought alongside her in her wars against the Portuguese. Tradition however treats all three - mother and two daughters as the same person.

Memory[edit]
Abbakka's memory is much cherished in her home town of Ullal. The "Veera Rani Abbakka Utsava" is an annual celebration held in her memory. The Veera Rani Abbakka Prashasti(award) is awarded to distinguished women on the occasion.[10] On January 15, 2003, the Indian postal department issued a special cover on Rani Abbakka. There have been calls to name the Bajpe airport and a naval vessel after the queen.[11] A bronze statue of the queen has been erected in Ullal and another in Bangalore.[12] The Karnataka Itihasa Academy has called for renaming the Queen's road in the state capital as 'Rani Abbakka Devi road'.[13] India's First Inshore Patrol Vessel ICGS Rani Abbakka is named after the Queen. The Vessel was commissioned in Visakhapatnam on January 20, 2012, and will be based in Chennai.[14]
 

Panjab47

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@Tactical Frog many examples but women rule in times of distress. Why would a woman want to bother with rule when men can do it?

Great Queens like russian catherine who had 17 lovers & was in-married.

Understand that a woman gives birth to every King - Guru Nanak Dev Ji

Is this beyond your understanding?

@VaghaDeva Rani Durgavati, Mai Bhago, Rani Jhansi etc right?
 

Panjab47

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Don't trust princely states only Misls.
 

VaghaDeva

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It is best that we have an established dynasty that has existed for at least over 300 years or so and is hindu and is closer to the interior
 

Panjab47

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Bharat Vansh. & Indo Gangetic plain won't accept ruler from interior.

Maharaj Ranjit Singh Sandhu had title of Chakrvart. Was not BharatVanshi but was Chandrvanshi so w/e
 
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Panjab47

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So we have agreement,

That map doesn't show full extent of Sikhs. They went up to Gwalior & even Nanded/Bidar were autonomous.

Nepal Assam also has Sikhs from Guru Nanak Dev Ji time but, political control was Gandhar to Gwalior.
 

VaghaDeva

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it must be a Maratha, rajput, kannadiga, odia


odia

maratha

(gurjara pratihara) rajput


vijayanagara

both kannada
 

Panjab47

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Rajput is mostly Surya Vansh
Kannada is Naagvanshi Bunt

So Chandrvansh will sharpen swords.
Dilli not only belongs to us,

It's name after us.
 

Tactical Frog

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@Tactical Frog many examples but women rule in times of distress. Why would a woman want to bother with rule when men can do it?

Great Queens like russian catherine who had 17 lovers & was in-married.

Understand that a woman gives birth to every King - Guru Nanak Dev Ji

Is this beyond your understanding?

@VaghaDeva Rani Durgavati, Mai Bhago, Rani Jhansi etc right?
Women don' t rule in time of distress .. it has to do with the succession rules . Many monarchic systems rule out women accessing to the throne, like the French system. The English don't care about gender. That probably paid off since Elisabeth I is the greatest of their Kings !
 

VaghaDeva

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'Germany needs moral guidance of a monarchy'

Germans might not know it, but they desperately need the moral guidance of a re-instated royal family, the great-great grandson of the last Kaiser, Prince Philip Kiril of Prussia, told The Local'sJessica Ware in an exclusive interview.

“Subconsciously, I think young Germans wants something they can orientate towards,” said Prince Philip. The 45-year-old father of six may work as a Protestant vicar, but he has become one of the loudest voices out of those who want to see Germany revive its monarchy.

Since Kaiser Wilhelm II abdicated in 1918, the country has been without a monarchy. But Prince Philip believes that a royal family with divine right conferred by God could offer Germany what it is missing.

“When a leader answers to himself, and not God, an atheist-led country ends in disaster. Look at Hitler, Pol Pot and Stalin,” he told The Local. Religion, “tames the selfishness naturally present in all of us.”

For the prince, a country guided by politicians and a ceremonial president means not only is there no strong family to look up to, nor is there anyone to rally up enthusiasm for family life. “A presidential head of state is not enough...what Germany needs is moral guidance and a friendlier face,” which, he added, “people do not get, and shouldn't expect, from politicians.”

Indeed, this appears to be what increasing amount of young Germans want, after a survey for news agency DPA revealed last month that as many as one in three 18-24-year-olds would like the Kaiser back on the throne. Jump to the over-50s, and this figure dropped to one in six.

“Looking up to a king or queen would be much better for Germany's young people than to pop stars or football players,” Prince Philip said. He lamented that people were putting too much value on consumerism and material goods instead of having children – something desperately needed as Germany faces a demographic implosion.

“I am astonished that so many young people said they would be in favour,” he admitted, acknowledging that general public opinion towards the monarchy in Germany was not that positive.

He cited the increasingly popular face of European royalty as being partially responsible for boosting interest among younger Germans. Though on the surface, young people may be drawn to the glamorous lifestyle of princes and princesses, the traditional of family is what they are yearning for deep down, he said.

“A crown prince would be the role model from which the country could seek inspiration, as it would be expected from him to get married, have children and stay faithful.”

For the prince, a presidential head of state simply does not cut it.

Being voted in “doesn't deign them the same respect” as a king, who is chosen by God. This is why he thinks his career as a protestant vicar would mix well with being royal. “All people are born equal but some are born to lead, and others to follow. This is not a human made concept, but a God-made one.”

Germany's disgraced previous president, Christian Wulff, was Prince Philip said, a perfect example of why appointing a politician as head of state was detrimental to the country. “Wulff was lauded by the country's tabloids as a modern family man, with his second marriage,” he said. “But in reality think about the effect growing up in a patchwork family has on a child, it isn't a good one.”

Yet being blue-blooded still seems to hold sway with the German public, thinks the prince. Take, for example, former Defence Minister Karl-Theodor zu Guttenberg, who plagiarised his doctorate dissertation. The case was covered exhaustively in the national press and eventually forced the Bavarian baron's resignation.

“This is because he is aristocratic,” said Prince Philip. But he said that the scandal didn't detract from his blue-blooded charisma. “It gives him a certain kind of aura that impresses people and attracts their attention.” We all have a tendency to orientate towards what came before us, he said. And with a monarchy, that lineage is clear.

Eventually, the country will need more than its finances and infrastructure being taken care of. It needs spirituality and religion and without God, Prince Philip added, saying Germany was running the risk of putting too much importance on money.

Of course, for many Germans money and monarchy are closely linked, with 50 percent telling DPA that they feared it would be far too expensive. But Prince Philip dismissed such concerns: “think how much more tourism, and in turn money, it would bring in,” he said. “One can't offset everything in terms of money though,” he added.

So, could Germany soon become a monarchy again?

“I haven't set my heart on it,” said Prince Philip. “Our country's broken history is too deeply ingrained.”
 

Peter

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@VaghaDeva Some really flawed logic there .. you could have kept Elisabeth as QUEEN just like so many countries across the world did . You would have retained your monarchy and your imperial system ( with the jewels )

Now a bit more seriously .. in recent history (20 th century) absolutist/ authoritarian empires were crushed or dismembered, how do you explain this ?
A quick list : Ottomans , Habsburgs of Austria, Romanov of Russia, German Empire, Japanese Empire ?
You should check out my threads on French conquest of England by William. Anyway how big is William the conqueror in modern day France.
 

Tactical Frog

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You should check out my threads on French conquest of England by William. Anyway how big is William the conqueror in modern day France.
William the Conqueror is not forgotten in Normandy .. kind of a national hero there !
The Bayeux tapestry of course attracts lot of visitors ! I will check your thread, thanks.

Sometimes an invader changes the curse of history in a country for ever.. whether it is Caesar or William the Conqueror.
 
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