The Iron Couples : Training Indian Forces from last 18 years

[Ankit Purohit]

 

[blueblood]

kudos to the duo.

@aboy being a civilian does not discredit them in anyway.

On a similar note, training of pekiti tirsia kali is also being imparted to NSG by a civilian.

Pekiti tirsia kali india for military, police and armed forces training by kanishka sharma - YouTube

Pekiti Tirsia Kali India - Edge and Impact Weapon Combat Tactics - YouTube

I think Kali is a better system than both Bison or Krav Maga but then who am I to judge. Though I found Rao's reflex shooting interesting.

 

[Ankit Purohit]

 

[shadowviper]

I'm new to all these Internet forums, but what I do know is knowledge of combat, training and service to the nation as a Retired Officer of IA. I'm going to share some of that knowledge here for the uninitiated and the ignorant.

A. CQB is the art of fighting at close proximity which is 30m. This includes Hand To Hand or bare handed combat, Hand to Weapon which is unarmed defence to edged weapons & firearms. Weapon to Hand which is the expert use of weapons like knifes, daggers and firearms. Weapon to Weapon which is the art of quick shooting before enemy fire known as Reflex shooting. And all combat is Small Teams fighting enemy team which is SOPs of team movement.

B. CQB was not very important in Armed force function as war meant long distance engagement with large companies of hundreds of soldiers. Hence prevalent World War II CQB system was only unarmed combat, shooting from waist, and large team SOPs for small teams. CQB in Police units was limited to use of only Pistols. Hence there was no established CQB system and it was a undefined grey zone with civilian areas of expertise like Bare handed combat, Martial weapons system, Quick sport shooting interspersed with Military needs of developing Combat SOPs for team on team combat.

C. CQB became most important as Terrorist activities were in small teams and use of large forces was like using a Hammer on an Ant. Urban warfare in built up areas involved civilian aspects like hostages, unarmed combat and movement protocols.

D. Dr. Deepak & Dr. Seema are professional Martial combat exponents with lineage tracing to Richard Bustillo, original descendent of Bruce Lee art of Jeet Kune Do. They are one of only 50 Full Instructors in world. Dr. Seema is daughter of renowned Freedom fighter of India. Dr. Rao is Asia's only Certified Law Enforcement Trainer from ASLET American Society of Law Enforcement Trg. He has qualified in CQB courses in Europe and USA. He is an expert Sports Shooter and his Patent method of Reflex shooting has been proved by Army trials to be better than conventional shooting. His method after a thorough analysis has been incorporated into various CI commands under tenures of different Army Commanders. The Raos are recipients of 3 Army Chief citations over 18 years for their CQB contributions to training 15,000 soldiers of forces. Yes they are civilians but perhaps spent all of their 18 years day and night in Army locations. That is why the President of India conferred rank to Major Deepak Rao and now he undergoes trg with Indian Special forces erasing any label of untrained civilian. That is also why Home Minister Chidambaram appointed them as Resource to Home Ministry to train all states in CQB, where Raos trained 16 states all without compensation.

E. If someone still wants to criticize low profile citizens who give their 2 decades serving Indian forces as outsourced experts, who can stop them? The Raos have never charged a dime despite bankruptcy and refused to come in spotlight. Thats why Indian Express rightly called Major Rao the true hero among MS Dhoni and Bindra when Army Chief bestowed rank honour to the three on 1 Nov 2011.

I write this as a retired officer of Indian Army who has studied the Raos and their work closely.

 

[Yusuf]

I'm new to all these Internet forums, but what I do know is knowledge of combat, training and service to the nation as a Retired Officer of IA. I'm going to share some of that knowledge here for the uninitiated and the ignorant.

A. CQB is the art of fighting at close proximity which is 30m. This includes Hand To Hand or bare handed combat, Hand to Weapon which is unarmed defence to edged weapons & firearms. Weapon to Hand which is the expert use of weapons like knifes, daggers and firearms. Weapon to Weapon which is the art of quick shooting before enemy fire known as Reflex shooting. And all combat is Small Teams fighting enemy team which is SOPs of team movement.

B. CQB was not very important in Armed force function as war meant long distance engagement with large companies of hundreds of soldiers. Hence prevalent World War II CQB system was only unarmed combat, shooting from waist, and large team SOPs for small teams. CQB in Police units was limited to use of only Pistols. Hence there was no established CQB system and it was a undefined grey zone with civilian areas of expertise like Bare handed combat, Martial weapons system, Quick sport shooting interspersed with Military needs of developing Combat SOPs for team on team combat.

C. CQB became most important as Terrorist activities were in small teams and use of large forces was like using a Hammer on an Ant. Urban warfare in built up areas involved civilian aspects like hostages, unarmed combat and movement protocols.

D. Dr. Deepak & Dr. Seema are professional Martial combat exponents with lineage tracing to Richard Bustillo, original descendent of Bruce Lee art of Jeet Kune Do. They are one of only 50 Full Instructors in world. Dr. Seema is daughter of renowned Freedom fighter of India. Dr. Rao is Asia's only Certified Law Enforcement Trainer from ASLET American Society of Law Enforcement Trg. He has qualified in CQB courses in Europe and USA. He is an expert Sports Shooter and his Patent method of Reflex shooting has been proved by Army trials to be better than conventional shooting. His method after a thorough analysis has been incorporated into various CI commands under tenures of different Army Commanders. The Raos are recipients of 3 Army Chief citations over 18 years for their CQB contributions to training 15,000 soldiers of forces. Yes they are civilians but perhaps spent all of their 18 years day and night in Army locations. That is why the President of India conferred rank to Major Deepak Rao and now he undergoes trg with Indian Special forces erasing any label of untrained civilian. That is also why Home Minister Chidambaram appointed them as Resource to Home Ministry to train all states in CQB, where Raos trained 16 states all without compensation.

E. If someone still wants to criticize low profile citizens who give their 2 decades serving Indian forces as outsourced experts, who can stop them? The Raos have never charged a dime despite bankruptcy and refused to come in spotlight. Thats why Indian Express rightly called Major Rao the true hero among MS Dhoni and Bindra when Army Chief bestowed rank honour to the three on 1 Nov 2011.

I write this as a retired officer of Indian Army who has studied the Raos and their work closely.

Welcome to DFI Sir. An honor to have you here. Our mentor @Ray Sir is a retired Brigadier IA. Maybe you know each other. You can take it up by Personal Message service of the forum

Please do introduce yourself for the benefit of the rest of the members here

 

[SPIEZ]

@shadowviper, please throw some light on Army CQB now and before.

And if possible also about CQB's of different armies

 

[captprashant]

+ if they are so great why does the SF not get training from them!! It is actually pretty infuriating that they are allowed to train Indian military personal in combat techniques.

abingdobboy. I have undergone some training from Major Rao Sir in one of our centers and he has imparted some great knowledge to us. He has great knowledge on the subject of CT and CQB and has unconventional methods of training. Remember, the IA needs the best of the best to come forward and help it selflessly

 

[captprashant]

+ if they are so great why does the SF not get training from them!! It is actually pretty infuriating that they are allowed to train Indian military personal in combat techniques.

From my US Army experience, training was performed by NCOs and Officers for the most part. Only in highly technical areas (nuclear subjects) was classroom instruction performed by civilians. One exception was driver training.

There seems to be a further integration of civilian instructors today.

The United States Army | Fort Benning

Dear W.G. Ewald

Yes I believe India has come up wid better system than the British fairbain system. Bison system is advanced and includes understanding of fighting in Indian terrain and urban scenario. So if a Civilian who has the capability to explore and train the armed forces (with over 15000 soldiers) I think we just need to take a bow and appreciate it

 

[captprashant]

+ if they are so great why does the SF not get training from them!! It is actually pretty infuriating that they are allowed to train Indian military personal in combat techniques.

kudos to the duo.

@aboy being a civilian does not discredit them in anyway.

On a similar note, training of pekiti tirsia kali is also being imparted to NSG by a civilian.

Pekiti tirsia kali india for military, police and armed forces training by kanishka sharma - YouTube

Pekiti Tirsia Kali India - Edge and Impact Weapon Combat Tactics - YouTube

I think Kali is a better system than both Bison or Krav Maga but then who am I to judge. Though I found Rao's reflex shooting interesting.

What you are using for comparison is probably the unarmed combat part. Now keeping in mind the effectiveness of a particular art we cannot just go by the fancy moves involved in the art. Again there is a difference between CQB and UAC. With UAC being a minor part of the CQB training that includes firearms handling as well and with Bison system if you study the material correctly (I think the books are published only for the perusal of Indian Armed forces) you will see that the Reflex shooting system changes the reaction time involved. It leverages a lot of practical modern day methodologies. Since the warfare has changed so the approach to it also has to change.

 

[captprashant]

@shadowviper, please throw some light on Army CQB now and before.

And if possible also about CQB's of different armies

@SPIEZ I can outline different types of CQB systems and also the difference between the training before where CQB was generally used in Ambush or Confined space now the definition is in between. There is Long distance warfare, Special Ops (Insurgency), CQB (30 to 100 yards), and confined space (hijack situation and stuff) Of this the most relevant being CQB in the current warfare scenario. Especially within India since most attacks are showing trend of urban warfare.

So modern CQB the weapons have changed for lesser ricochet and priority to reaction time/speed over precision (as displayed by the Bison systems techniques) and of course the approach to inject is changing.

As far as CQB systems are concerned, I would want to create a separate topic but I don't know how to start a new topic.

 

[Ankit Purohit]