The globality Of Hinduism

Ray

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@Ray, fish-eating is in Bengali culture where vegetarianism is in West UP culture. You can extrapolate this to say that since both are Hindus, so fish-eating and vegetarianism are both part of Hindu culture.

Vedas speak against eating meat of animals; so Vedic people were vegetarian. Following life as per Veda makes you Vedic.

"Hindu" is arbitrary term and anybody can be Hindu. I have not seen any accurate definition of Hindu so far.
Kashmiri Pandits and Bengali Brahmins and Maithil Brahmins, who eat fish and meat.

In Magha days are oxen slain, in Arjuris they wed the bride.

— Rig Veda (10.85.13)

When thrice the men lead round the Steed, in order, who goeth to the Gods as meet oblation,
The goat precedeth him, the share of PÅ«á¹£an, and to the Gods the sacrifice announceth.

— Dirghatamas, Rig Veda (10.162.4)
What part of the Steed's flesh the fly hath eaten, or is left sticking to the post or hatchet,
Or to the slayer's hands and nails adhereth,—among the Gods, too, may all this be with thee.
Food undigested steaming from his belly, and any odour of raw flesh remaining,
This let the immolators set in order and dress the sacrifice with perfect cooking.

— Dirghatamas, Rig Veda (10.162.10)

They who observing that the Horse is ready call out and say, the smell is good; remove it;
And, craving meat, await the distribution,—may their approving help promote labour.
The trial-fork of the flesh-cooking caldron, the vessels out of which the broth is sprinkled,
The warming-pots, the covers of the dishes, hooks, carving-boards,—all these attend the Charger.

— Dirghatamas, Rig Veda (10.162.12-13)

The Atharva Veda bans only the eating of the raw flesh and the human flesh:

Those who eat flesh uncooked, and those who eat the bleeding flesh of men,
Feeders on babes unborn, long-haired, far from this place we banish these.

— Atharva Veda (8.6.23)

Some of the south Indian Brahmins during the sutra period, like those of North India were meat eaters.[22] Kapilar(Puṟanāṉūṟu, poems 113,119), a poet in ancient Tamil Country, says:

" ..My hands have become soft because they do know of no harder work than eating rice and meat boiled with tamarind. The sweet smell of its smoke might counteract the smell of the pieces of meat."
History of Brahmin diet - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Maybe this will help you to understand the religion culture of Bengal. They and Eastern Indian to include Magadh were outside the Vedic culture.
The Roots of Bengali Culture
Link
 
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Kay

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Where does culture emanate from?

I thought it was from the dharm.

Islamic culture is from the Quaran, the Sunnah and the Hadith.

Christian culture is from the Bible.

Hindu culture is from?

@Ray Sir
I would say cultures predate religion. Cultures have evolved ever since men lived in caves. It evolved around how we interacted with each other as man became social. Religion sanctified and codified many aspects of cultures through belief systems and theological explanations. In ancient religions, like Egyptian and ancient Hindu culture, they became the law.
Islamic culture came from pre-Islamic Arabian culture with the addition of religious duties, restrictions and responsibilities post-Mohammed. Christian culture was based on Roman life during Emperor Constantine's lifetime and carefully designed by the rules he (and others after him) set.
In Hinduism, Vedas may be the starting point or the root - but they are open to multiple interpretations. Hindu culture is based on rules set by early Brahmins and they set the rules to serve themselves.
Numerous times reformers have tried and abolish the caste system and failed because of this.
The Legacy Of Brahmanism: Abomination of Untouchability And Curse Of Caste System | Nirmukta
From the same blog, an article reinforcing your opening post.
Is 'Hindu Atheism' Valid? A Rationalist Critique Of The 'Hindu' Identity's Usurpation Of Indian Culture | Nirmukta
 
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Kay

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Total knowledge = Existing Knowledge + Religion/Superstition/Hypothesis, etc.

As our existing knowledge about the universe grows, religion becomes less relevant. Until then, we take refuge in assumptions of the existence of God, creator, divine power, souls, rebirth - all of which are simply hypothesis. Most of these hypothesis have been put down by men, who though were great thinkers of their time, had even less knowledge of the universe than we currently do. So, no religion can possibly give us any insight into the unknown. This is something we have to live with. That is why, religion has to be personal and constantly evolving.
 

sgarg

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Kashmiri Pandits and Bengali Brahmins and Maithil Brahmins, who eat fish and meat.



Maybe this will help you to understand the religion culture of Bengal. They and Eastern Indian to include Magadh were outside the Vedic culture.
Who has provided the translation of Vedic verses? Is the person even know how to translate?

The translations provided by you are completely false.

You provide proper quote of the vedic verse (only a number quote is not enough); and I shall provide you the correct translation. If you still have problems, you are welcome to come and discuss in person.

People may eat meat - that is their choice. God does not force a human to act in a certain way. The vedas only say that God gives the result - good or bad - as per the actions of a human.
 

sgarg

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Total knowledge = Existing Knowledge + Religion/Superstition/Hypothesis, etc.

As our existing knowledge about the universe grows, religion becomes less relevant. Until then, we take refuge in assumptions of the existence of God, creator, divine power, souls, rebirth - all of which are simply hypothesis. Most of these hypothesis have been put down by men, who though were great thinkers of their time, had even less knowledge of the universe than we currently do. So, no religion can possibly give us any insight into the unknown. This is something we have to live with. That is why, religion has to be personal and constantly evolving.
There are two ways of gaining knowledge - one is by understanding natural phenomenon which we call "vigyan". The other is obtained by "tapa" which is called "gyan". Both "gyan" and "vigyan" coexist and are essential. Vedas encourage humans to learn and build devices and have a good life.
 

Ray

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Who has provided the translation of Vedic verses? Is the person even know how to translate?

The translations provided by you are completely false.

You provide proper quote of the vedic verse (only a number quote is not enough); and I shall provide you the correct translation. If you still have problems, you are welcome to come and discuss in person.

People may eat meat - that is their choice. God does not force a human to act in a certain way. The vedas only say that God gives the result - good or bad - as per the actions of a human.
As I said, I know very little. I am going by what is read since each claims to know all about Hinduism.

The Veda verses have been given in the quotes. Since you are aware of the Vedas, why don't you tell what is the right interpretation?

The quotes were from Editors of Hinduism Today (15 April 2007). What Is Hinduism?: Modern Adventures Into a Profound Global Faith. Himalayan Academy Publications. p. 346.

I cannot vouch it the are gurus or anti-gurus.
 

sgarg

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@Ray, please give the full vedic verse. I do not know which version of Veda the translator is using. There is more than one version in the modern times.
I need to see the verse.

The kind of translation you have quoted is impossible. Vedic Sanskrit is a cryptic ancient language which is almost unintelligible to most people.
 
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sgarg

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The following text is provided by Guruji:

Pulkit: Whether vedas sanction animal sacrifice and flesh eating or not? if not then why are such instances found in mahabharat and manusmriti.
Swami Ramswarup: No, please. Vedas never promote non-vegetarian etc. In this connection, I paste one of my answers:-

Vegetarians

We have to obey the preach of Vedas which emanates direct from God at the beginning of the earth. For carnivorous animals like lion, tiger, wolves, cat, dog etc., God allows to take non-vegetarian food. So the said act to take non-vegetarian food is not their sin. Similarly in Vedas for human beings, God states to take vegetarian food which is not a sin. Secondly, for human beings, Vedas strictly prohibit non-vegetarian food. That is why, we must take vegetables, food-grains etc., when they are fully ripe.

Vegetarians and non-vegetarians are two categories. Accordingly the construction of body i.e., teeth, small intestine and large intestine, and digestive system has been made by God.

Human beings come in vegetarian category. Our teeth and digestive system always differ from cat, dog, lion etc. Some animals like cow, buffalo, goat, elephant etc., also come in Vegetarian category. We take water by sipping but the animals who are non-vegetarian i.e., meat eater they do not sip but lick. Whatever we eat, that food develops our mind and body and creates natural behaviour. For example if we take a cub who is newly born and nurse him by giving milk and thereafter vegetarian food only and on the other hand to another cub we provide him meat, then when they will be younger their habit will differ. The cub taking vegetarian food will be as violent as the cub who took meat.

Now medical science also says that the energy in vegetarian food is more than that in non-vegetarian food. Vegetarian food gives long and ill free life. Vegetarian elephant is stronger than non-vegetarian lion.

Nobody can take meat until one gives violence to animals or birds etc., which is a sin. Our stomach becomes a graveyard where we gather meat by eating. As regards life in vegetarians it does not harm to them while plucking from plants etc. because every vegetarian plant has short life and is meant to give food to the human life. But to us meat is not entitled. Science has recently told that non-vegetarians are more susceptible to cancer disease and teeth degeneration as compared to vegetarians.

Non-vegetarian food is prohibited as per Vedas, shastras, Upnishads and all the ancient holy books. In vegetarian food an ocean of calories and vitamins is available by the mercy of God. Please check from a dietician about the same. Because it is lengthy one and I cannot explain here. For example dal, is full of proteins, soybean has more protein than any non-vegetarian food, which has ability to inhibit cancer also where as non-vegetarian does not. Green vegetables like palak, methi, etc., are the richest source of iron and vitamin A. So is the case of milk, curd, rice, fruit, etc.
 

Ray

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@Ray, please give the full vedic verse. I do not know which version of Veda the translator is using. There is more than one version in the modern times.
I need to see the verse.

The kind of translation you have quoted is impossible. Vedic Sanskrit is a cryptic ancient language which is almost unintelligible to most people.
If I knew Hinduism or the Vedas, I would enjoin you on this debate with my views.

Check the Wiki link I gave before the other one quoted later.

I am only here to learn.
 
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Ray

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@Ray, please give the full vedic verse. I do not know which version of Veda the translator is using. There is more than one version in the modern times.
I need to see the verse.

The kind of translation you have quoted is impossible. Vedic Sanskrit is a cryptic ancient language which is almost unintelligible to most people.
Then it is unintelligible for even those who pose as intelligent and experts, right?
 
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DingDong

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Different parts of Vedas deal with different rituals and way of thoughts to the extent that certain parts can actually be seen as contradictory. Verses in Vedas usually follow the "What if this is what one wishes to do" or "What if one wishes to follow this certain path" kind of strategy and hence contradictory parts must be read in isolation. Creation Hymns in Vedas are thought to challenge the very concept of GOD.
 

sgarg

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Different parts of Vedas deal with different rituals and way of thoughts to the extent that certain parts can actually be seen as contradictory. Verses in Vedas usually follow the "What if this is what one wishes to do" or "What if one wishes to follow this certain path" kind of strategy and hence contradictory parts must be read in isolation. Creation Hymns in Vedas are thought to challenge the very concept of GOD.
Can you give examples.
 

warriorextreme

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Kashmiri Pandits and Bengali Brahmins and Maithil Brahmins, who eat fish and meat.



Maybe this will help you to understand the religion culture of Bengal. They and Eastern Indian to include Magadh were outside the Vedic culture.
Sir I wish I could explain meaning of the hymnas you have quoted, but for the lack of time I can explain only the first worse you have quoted:

In Magha days are oxen slain, in Arjuris they wed the bride.

— Rig Veda (10.85.13)

The actual mantra is :

suryaayaa vahatu praagaat savitaa yamavaasrujat |
aghaasu hanyate gaavo arjunyoh paryuhyate ||

(Rig. 10/85/13)

Meaning of this mantra is :

In winter, the rays of sun get weakened and then get strong again in spring. The word used for sun-rays in 'Go' which also means cow and hence the mantra can also be translated by making 'cow' and not 'sun-rays' as the subject. The word used for 'weakened' is 'Hanyate' which can also mean killing. But if that be so, why would the mantra go further and state in next line (which is deliberately not translated) that in spring, they start regaining their original form. How can a cow killed in winter regain its health in spring?

Another alternative meaning is given from page 22 in below pdf:

http://agniveer.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/vegeteriasim.pdf

Word Gau is used for cows as well as sun rays & hanyate also means weakned.

Cows are mentioned as "Aghnya" everywhere in Vedas which means that they can not be divided into parts(basically killed to get beef from them).

Cows are mentioned as "Aditi" i.e. she is not to be harmed in any way.

One Sanskrit word unlike English will have many meanings and we have to consider all the hymnas that come before and after a particular hymna to get the correct meaning of it.

I myself am not even at beginner level in Sanskrit but there are some people who with their intermediate skills think they can translate Vedas which have far deeper meaning.
 
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sgarg

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@warriorextreme, excellent. This is true that Sanskrit words have multiple meanings and the correct meaning is obtained from context. Guruji has written a full book which quotes verse after verse against meat eating. People who have little knowledge of Sanskrit and no knowledge of Vedic culture and customs comment on Vedic verses. How can such translation be correct??

People find excuses to believe what they want to believe. Anybody is free to believe what they want but they should not defame a religious book.
 
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Ray

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@warriorextreme,

Most wonderfully well explained. A great help indeed.

Thanks



**************************

@warriorextreme, excellent. This is true that Sanskrit words have multiple meanings and the correct meaning is obtained from context. Guruji has written a full book which quotes verse after verse against meat eating. People who have little knowledge of Sanskrit and no knowledge of Vedic culture and customs comment on Vedic verses. How can such translation be correct??

People find excuses to believe what they want to believe. Anybody is free to believe what they want but they should not defame a religious book.
People DO NOT WANT to Believe What they WANT to believe, but People want to learn from those who KNOW and all that is available are books and the Internet. They ask clarification and quote from whatever is available so that those who are better equipped can explain. You failed to do so, except by stating your Guru is the sole authority, which he could be, but then he is not a sage but a human who interprets as he wishes to.

Please get that clear.

You are so uneducated that you did not know the about the Culture and Roots of Eastern India (I gave links which quoted the Vedas and other religious scripture) but went on a rant on some stupid idea why some ate meat because it suited them and so on.

The same way you think you know the Military and strategy when your 'knowledge' is the Internet, loose talk and gossip, and in actuality you know a sausage about the actuality as you have no hands-on experience or knowledge.
 
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sgarg

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@Ray, give me a single reason why I need to learn roots of Eastern India?

Nobody has knowledge of everything. I don't have much idea about Bengali culture. I never claimed to know Bengali culture, did I?

The discussion is about Veda. I accept open challenge from you. Come sit with us and argue face to face. Bring any of your Vedic experts.
 
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sgarg

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@Ray, As about rest of your post, I better not comment. We shall see about that in specific threads.
 
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Ray

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@Ray, give me a single reason why I need to learn roots of Eastern India?

Nobody has knowledge of everything. I don't have much idea about Bengali culture. I never claimed to know Bengali culture, did I?

The discussion is about Veda. I accept open challenge from you. Come sit with us and argue face to face. Bring any of your Vedic experts.
Because if you had read the Vedas and you claim, you would have realised that the Eastern Indians were pre Vedic (as per the very Vedas you talk about) (check the link I gave on the Roots and Culture) and very advanced and not give the claptrap about meat and fish eating because of choice.

I have no 'gurus' or whatever to sit with you and talk it out, more so, I am not a Hindu as such and just want to learn about all religions as far as I can within the time constraints of modern life's pace.

Compare your big talk and pretentious obfuscation with the wonderful, logical and precise explanation given by @warriorextreme that indicated the interpretation so vividly and lucidly.
 
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sgarg

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@Ray, what the hell is pre-vedic?

I have full respect for Bengali culture and all cultures but when somebody publishes false information about a religious book - how can that be condoned.

You are deeply mistaken.

Do I care if you are a Hindu or not? The word Hindu means nothing as there is no religious book that explains the word Hindu.

Hindu is just a regional term like Bengali.
 
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