The Atheism/Agnosticism Thread

[KS]

You are saying god exists so it is your priority to prove he exists.

the person making claims always has the responsibility to prove his claims.

You clain there is no god.

Prove it.

Atheists, just like ultra orthodox, are arrogant dogmatic pricks with an inherent inability to listen to others.

 

[KS]

and why should one believe in a higher force in the first place ?

Because you still don't have answers to all occurrences around you.

 

[Param]

Because you still don't have answers to all occurrences around you.

That large Hadron collider might some day provide an explanation.

 

[p2prada]

Faith is some invisible power which always helps you if you are right. I don't know for others but whenever i am in trouble or i go to Vaishno Devi, My many problems are solved. May be it's only physiological. But it worked for me.

No offense. But atheists find this belief funny. We believe you overcame your troubles by your own strength and not that of a statue sitting in a cave 4000m high.

Delusion is a great way to reduce or completely eliminate stress and anxiety.

People who are emotionally overwhelmed, like teenagers who get dumped, like to hurt themselves because the feeling of cutting themselves hurts less than what they are feeling emotionally. Delusion is a better way to reduce this type of anxiety and it's quite well known theory that religion or deeply religious feelings during signs of trouble is like a defence mechanism that the brain uses to protect itself. It's funny but 90% of the time, people think of God when they are in trouble. When people are happy, God has no place, even temporarily. It's all in the mind.

However if it makes you happy, then don't let it stop you. Faith in something unreal is simply delusion. Faith in your own strength is what makes us different from animals. We, however, take it to a whole new level.

It's fine if people say there can be no atheists in India. That's another delusion too. In India, there is no mechanism which allows you to be an official atheist. Govt actually does not know the concept and like you believe that atheists don't exist at all. This needs reform. There was a case last year where a couple wanted their baby to be listed as no religion. But the govt machinery did not have that option. So, they had to settle for "Other."

Also, about your question on marriage. There is no place for religious ritual being a proof of marriage. In India, by law, only if you have the certificate of marriage with both names in can allows you to be a couple. Other proof of documents that show you are married to one another would be passport, voters id etc which shows the Husband's name. If you go to a registrar and say, look I tied this mangalsutra on this woman and she is my wife, without any proof, then they will say the magic two words starting with F and ending with F.

There is a provision, pointed out to me by Ray sir, called Special Marriage Act which allows atheist couples to tie the knot without any religious ritual from any religion. It would be legally binding and carries more weight than sindoor. This in India, not Magadha.

As for religion, personally I used to celebrate Diwali with crackers, stopped since a long time. But then I also celebrate Ramzan with my muslim friends and also will be going to a Christmas party with friends tonight. I don't sit and sing carols and bhajans though.

Birth-Marriage-Festival Celebration-Death funeral is done as per religion.

Birth needs a birth certificate and can be made immediately after birth. If you are Hindu you can name your child as soon as it's born like Christians do and still register it. No need of waiting for months to pass and then run an elaborate function for the same.

Marriage has been explained.

Festival celebration - heck I don't celebrate any festival without my trusty chicken and KF Premium.

Death and funeral is not particularly in your hands, but there are ways to dispose of the body without any religious ritual. Still a good funeral is more for having led a good life rather than some cockamaime religious thing. Check how funerals at sea and space is done. You are just fish food or thrown in space. Good thing is an atheist can decide how his body needs be disposed without any inconvenience to the family. Religion is not the end all of everything.

Like I said, there are plenty of atheists in India, you just need to look at the right place. Funny thing is nearly every explicit atheist is highly educated with at least a graduate degree. You will never find a poor explicit atheist.

 

[Razor]

The funniest concept I heard was Hindu Atheist.

I dont understand. Why is it funny?
As far as I see, Hinduism or Sanathana Dharma is more of something that defines our culture than a religion, it is more of "a way of life" than a religion. And I feel the concept of Hindu Atheist is not absurd. There are hindu schools of thought which are atheistic or at least not concerned with existence of God(s)

 

[p2prada]

A theist response would be there is still no proof of NO god. Agnostics are better in this regard. Atheist, just like ultra-conservatives are dogmatic pricks.

Religion calls the higher force as God. You can call the same as sugar daddy in your parlance.

There is no proof of it's absence either.

There is a word for this type of belief. It is called deism. Deism says that a God exists but is not what man believes God is.

He could be anything. It is possible He may not give two hoots about what you do, how you live, how you die or what you do after death. You could be hopelessly insignificant to Him, just like how a human sees an ant and won't give a fig about what the ant is up to.

Atheists are pricks, no doubt, at least in atheist vs theist debates. Other than that no atheist has ever hurt a living thing with religion as his basis. An atheist is a prick, but he is a better human being and with a higher moral code. I am not saying I am some one with a higher moral code though, it all depends on one's education and I am not fully educated in this department. However I can differentiate between right and wrong and don't need some religious book for the same.

Agnostics are better simply because they are half way here and half way there. They don't complain about how religion can be delusional. You can say a theist is not threatened by an agnostic while an atheist is a direct threat. However an atheist does not see a theist as a direct threat until and unless the theist is forcing belief and codes belonging to a religious dogma onto an atheist.

According to 2001 census, 99.9% Indians register themselves as follower of 1 religion.

False information. Indians are registered as with religion and the figure is at 100%. There is no atheist option as already explained. Just wanted to point it out again. The 99.9% figure is pure BS.

 

[trackwhack]

Sonofabich ... All my questions on every open end are being answered by the enlightened few on DFI. We must invite the thoeosophical society to come and learn. :taunt1:

 

[p2prada]

I dont understand. Why is it funny?
As far as I see, Hinduism or Sanathana Dharma is more of something that defines our culture than a religion, it is more of "a way of life" than a religion. And I feel the concept of Hindu Atheist is not absurd. There are hindu schools of thought which are atheistic or at least not concerned with existence of God(s)

That "Way of Life" thing is also another delusion. It is steeped in worship, ritual and even tradition. Hindu schools of thought with atheism as it's core follow the current modern principles of atheism and even agnosticism. Hindu atheist is just a made up 20th century word, Indianism. A Hindu atheist is a person who does not believe in the existence of a God but follows all the religious customs as is the norm. It's just religion with spice, in the end they all come back to the same thing. They say they are atheist but don't show it in public, like Galaxy's friends. However it is ones belief and one is entitled to it. It is not harmful to society at large.

Christian, Islamic and Buddhist ways of life are also the same as the Hindu way of life. There is really no difference. We just like to believe we are better and try to be more sophisticated in our terms.

 

[civfanatic]

A person can say "I don't follow any God" but that person can't say I don't follow customs/tradition/customs of any religion. It's simply not possible at least in India until that very person is living alone in isolated place. Indian subcontinent people are religious. Only matter is how much person is religious.

According to 2001 census, 99.9% Indians register themselves as follower of 1 religion.

The most religious countries as per that map are also the least developed.

 

[p2prada]

Because you still don't have answers to all occurrences around you.

Yes, nobody has all the answers. But that does not mean you make up answers of your own and peddle them as true. That's why words like delusion exist. Delusion is pathological and can very aptly be related to religion.

Lack of knowledge is key here, and man is smart enough to work out a way to find these answers without having to make up stories without proof and convince people as the truth. If you create something called religion and say it is an answer to everything, then you are going to have to point out all those answers before letting them take up religion. Or else it simply becomes another hypothesis. There are plenty of those around.

That's how it is. A concept without proof or ability to be tested is just hypothesis. Religion is hypothesis. But when some people try to say it's only a hypothesis, then they are crucified. Hypothesis means assumption. We just universally assume God exists.

 

[LurkerBaba]

A Hindu atheist is a person who does not believe in the existence of a God but follows all the religious customs as is the norm. It's just religion with spice, in the end they all come back to the same thing. They say they are atheist but don't show it in public, like Galaxy's friends. However it is ones belief and one is entitled to it. It is not harmful to society at large.

Christian, Islamic and Buddhist ways of life are also the same as the Hindu way of life. There is really no difference. We just like to believe we are better and try to be more sophisticated in our terms.

Atheism is merely a counterpoint to Abrahamic theism. 'Hinduism'(whatever you want to call it),. can accept 'atheism', Christianity/Islam can't.

It's sad that we have to classify Indian philosophies as "monotheistic," polytheistic", atheistic". Such words never existed in Indian philosophical systems, belief in some imaginary bearded guy in the sky was never a prerequisite for Dharma.

Honestly, I don't belive int Dharma or Karma, but inventing the construct of an Absolute Reality is IMO more sophisticated that creating a wrathful male godlike figure

 

[HeinzGud]

Even Nehru was Atheist, Still his funeral and all process was as per Hindu tradition.

Atheist is failed concept in India. It's Joke when someone says I am Hindu Atheist.

Ain't Hinduism promote Atheism?? Though Buddhism certainly do!

 

[LurkerBaba]

Ain't Hinduism promote Atheism?? Though Buddhism certainly do!

Buddhism is not purely atheist but.agnostic (closest term I can think of)

 

[Nagraj]

yup it is saddening when peple start threeads like http://defenceforumindia.com/religion-culture/25125-hinduism-scientifically-proven-religion.html these are insult to hinduism and influenced by how few abrahamic religion claim to be scientific and shows shallow understanding of hinduism.

Atheism is merely a counterpoint to Abrahamic theism. 'Hinduism'(whatever you want to call it),. can accept 'atheism', Christianity/Islam can't.

It's sad that we have to classify Indian philosophies as "monotheistic," polytheistic", atheistic". Such words never existed in Indian philosophical systems, belief in some imaginary bearded guy in the sky was never a prerequisite for Dharma.

Honestly, I don't belive int Dharma or Karma, but inventing the construct of an Absolute Reality is IMO more sophisticated that creating a wrathful male godlike figure

 

[pankaj nema]

The only problem with religion is when people believe that ONLY their religion is the BEST and
all others will go to HELL because they worship a different God

 

[KS]

Yes, nobody has all the answers. But that does not mean you make up answers of your own and peddle them as true. That's why words like delusion exist. Delusion is pathological and can very aptly be related to religion.

As long as the 'delusion' remains a private matter and does not interfere with your reality what is the problem ? If the 'delusion' helps some people get on with their life without unnecessarily getting bogged down in a cycle of cynicism (,,ultimately ending narcissistic) what's the problem then ?

And FYI, until there is solid proof against it, I will not call it 'delusion'.

Re, the bolded part..I can accuse the 'atheists' of the same crime.

Lack of knowledge is key here, and man is smart enough to work out a way to find these answers without having to make up stories without proof and convince people as the truth. If you create something called religion and say it is an answer to everything, then you are going to have to point out all those answers before letting them take up religion. Or else it simply becomes another hypothesis. There are plenty of those around.

Nobody forces anyone to take up religion. I believe religion is a private matter..between you and the one you think is above you. I don't have have explanations for all things around me and till the rationalists can give a suitable explanation to their happening I think I have the right to believe in a higher force. I prefer to call him God(s). Your terminology may vary.

That's how it is. A concept without proof or ability to be tested is just hypothesis. Religion is hypothesis. But when some people try to say it's only a hypothesis, then they are crucified. Hypothesis means assumption. We just universally assume God exists.

Until otherwise the 'assumption' is proved wrong - there is nothing wrong in believing it.

 

[KS]

The most religious countries as per that map are also the least developed.

Correlation does not mean causation.

There is a word for this type of belief. It is called deism. Deism says that a God exists but is not what man believes God is.

He could be anything. It is possible He may not give two hoots about what you do, how you live, how you die or what you do after death. You could be hopelessly insignificant to Him, just like how a human sees an ant and won't give a fig about what the ant is up to.

How does that matter to what you think about Him ? You hold Him as a source of inspiration, a source of faith and believe me that faith alone can work miracles towards your confidence which in turn is key for your success. It's simple psychology. Sometimes You tend to give your best when you are unmindful of the consequences and think there is someone to watch your back.

...... However an atheist does not see a theist as a direct threat until and unless the theist is forcing belief and codes belonging to a religious dogma onto an atheist.

Wrong generalization. I am a theist and I could not care less of what your personal belief is. More often than not I only see the Atheist riding his moral high horse decrying us theists and not the other way around.

 

[pankaj nema]

Correlation does not mean causation.

There might not be an absolute relation between religiosity and poverty but empirical studies
do suggest some strong links

People in underdeveloped or least developed countries have to face
a lot of hardships

And this is when human beings turn to religion in a big way

 

[KS]

There might not be an absolute relation between religiosity and poverty but empirical studies
do suggest some strong links

People in underdeveloped or least developed countries have to face
a lot of hardships

And this is when human beings turn to religion in a big way

Only when our ass is to the wall we turn to God..nothing path breaking in it.

Also it is not the lack of religion that made them developed, but the other way around - the prosperity that has caused their relative lack of religiosity.

 

[pankaj nema]

Only when our ass is to the wall we turn to God..nothing path breaking in it.

Also it is not the lack of religion that made them developed, but the other way around - the prosperity that has caused their relative lack of religiosity.

The Christian West surged ahead ONLY when the Church was put in its place AND Renaissance
led to the rebirth of Knowledge and Learning