Terror attack in Srinagar

[A chauhan]

Now the question rises again :- Should India take out terror camps across the border ? How long we'll tolerate this?

 

[Dovah]

Barkha Dutt Tweet -

The return of the Fidayeen attack. Militants strike in Srinagar in area that also has a public school. Delhi please pay attention.

Note the use of word Fidayeen - 'those willing to sacrifice themselves for God`- rather than terrorists. This lady is in the league of anti-nationals like Arundhati Roy.

Fidayeen is common nomenclature for these attacks(where terrorists fight to death), don't think BD used it with religious connotation.

 

[Patriot]

Fidayeen is common nomenclature for these attacks(where terrorists fight to death), don't think BD used it with religious connotation.

Her name Burkha Dhatt is not given just like that only. Check her trail, journos choose their words carefully intended for the target audience.

 

[Dovah]

Her name Burkha Dhatt is not given just like that only. Check her trail, journos choose their words carefully intended for the target audience.

That may be the case. All I am saying is that BD is not wrong with the term Fidayeen here, she did not coin it.

 

[DivineHeretic]

Now the question rises again :- Should India take out terror camps across the border ? How long we'll tolerate this?

Now the question rises again :- Should India take out terror camps across the border ? How long we'll tolerate this?

Striking cross LOC terror camps have been avoided till now (except in special cases) because of the lack of any real impact on the ground. The terrorists are more like sacrificial lambs, of little cost to the PA &ISI, with much higher interests. They are extremely disposable.

And in any case, there is no dearth of radicalised youths in Pak who wants their 72 virgins. Even if we wipe out one or two terrorist camps, some more will simply crop up in different places. A lot lost and nothing gained for the operation of striking their bases.

The only way we will have hard impact is if the middle tier ranks of the terrorists and their handlets are hit and eliminated. Most preferrably by R&AW's SG, without the flash and noise of a Spec ops assault. This is what needs to be done. The upper levels of the terrorist outfits are not really useful candidates for assasination, as they don not hold operational control. They may be the masyerminds, but the plans are drawn up and perfected by the middle ranks.

There are indeed several rumours of SG being active in POK, but as of now, no whispers have emerged of them conducting such missions. What is their purpose in POK is anybody's guess. We also know that the ARC flies missions deep into LoC as a matter of routine.

I can recall a specific leak (very quickly plugged by the IA and GOI) of the presence of assets inside POK. The army CO stated that elements across the LOC had alerted the IA of a large infiltration party aporoaching the LOC. This later resulted in a big success. The GOI and the IA very quickly covered this up and several rumours were leaked to cover up this. This happened a few months after 26/11.

 

[hit&run]

Fidyaeen word was used by Omar Abdulahh as well. Either they are idiots or naive or its kind of appeasement the same way people in Punjab used to do by calling terrorists ''kharkoo''.

 

[arnabmit]

Any links? Am dying to get some news to convince myself that RAW does something more than 10-5 office with their big bellies flipping through paper files!

Striking cross LOC terror camps have been avoided till now (except in special cases) because of the lack of any real impact on the ground. The terrorists are more like sacrificial lambs, of little cost to the PA &ISI, with much higher interests. They are extremely disposable.

And in any case, there is no dearth of radicalised youths in Pak who wants their 72 virgins. Even if we wipe out one or two terrorist camps, some more will simply crop up in different places. A lot lost and nothing gained for the operation of striking their bases.

The only way we will have hard impact is if the middle tier ranks of the terrorists and their handlets are hit and eliminated. Most preferrably by R&AW's SG, without the flash and noise of a Spec ops assault. This is what needs to be done. The upper levels of the terrorist outfits are not really useful candidates for assasination, as they don not hold operational control. They may be the masyerminds, but the plans are drawn up and perfected by the middle ranks.

There are indeed several rumours of SG being active in POK, but as of now, no whispers have emerged of them conducting such missions. What is their purpose in POK is anybody's guess. We also know that the ARC flies missions deep into LoC as a matter of routine.

I can recall a specific leak (very quickly plugged by the IA and GOI) of the presence of assets inside POK. The army CO stated that elements across the LOC had alerted the IA of a large infiltration party aporoaching the LOC. This later resulted in a big success. The GOI and the IA very quickly covered this up and several rumours were leaked to cover up this. This happened a few months after 26/11.

 

[sesha_maruthi27]

Why is the GoI still so soft on pakistan sponsored terror attacks. I think it is high time that IAF destroyed all the terror camps identified in the PoK region.

 

[DivineHeretic]

Any links? Am dying to get some news to convince myself that RAW does something more than 10-5 office with their big bellies flipping through paper files!

Extremely few cases of RAW operation have come into the public domain, especially against Pakistani terrorists.
But here are some notable ones
An exerpt:

the-compelling account of a massive covert operation by the IB and RAW to flush out terrorists planning strikes on India from their hideouts in Nepal.What's more impressive, the terrorists—around 400 till date according to a top officer involved in the operation—were clandestinely brought to India for questioning, thanks to the-absence of an extradition treaty between India and Nepal.

RAW & IB Operate Against Pakistani Agents in Nepal | ALAIWAH!
Another dark ops

The statement issued in the Meitei language and emailed to newspaper offices in Imphal said R K Meghen was apprehended by a combined team of Bangladeshi intelligence and RAW sleuths at a place called Lalmatia under Mohammadpur police station on the outskirts of Dhaka on September 29.

UNLF confirms its chief held in Dhaka - Indian Express

Another one

Operation Leech

-when the KIA became the main source of training and weapons for all northeastern rebel groups, RAW initiated an operation, code named-Operation Leech, to assassinate the leaders of the Burmese rebels as an example to other groups. in 1998, six top rebel leaders, including military wing chief of National Unity Party of Arakans (NUPA), Khaing Raza, were shot dead and 34 Arakanese guerrillas were arrested and charged with gunrunning

2010

On 15 January 2010, in a successful snatch operation RAW agents nabbed Sheikh Abdul Khwaja, one of the handlers of the 26/11 attacks, chief of-HuJI-India operations and a most wanted terror suspect in India, from-Colombo, Sri Lanka and brought him over to-Hyderabad, India-for formal arrest.

 

[DivineHeretic]

Double post

 

[arnabmit]

Thanks!

So RAW is alive everywhere except pakistan?

WRT pakistan, it seems either RAW is ineffective or their cover is too effective! Hope its the later...

Extremely few cases of RAW operation have come into the public domain, especially against Pakistani terrorists.
But here are some notable ones

 

[rock127]

Thanks!

So RAW is alive everywhere except pakistan?

WRT pakistan, it seems either RAW is ineffective or their cover is too effective! Hope its the later...

Yeah and perhaps some RAW agent(s) is also keeping a watch on india-pak forums as well to check how much of their cover is blown up

 

[natarajan]

Why is the GoI still so soft on pakistan sponsored terror attacks. I think it is high time that IAF destroyed all the terror camps identified in the PoK region.

Just now kurshid gave special lunch to pak pm and they have given back treat to us

 

[sesha_maruthi27]

INDIA is too soft on pakistan for a long time......

 

[A chauhan]

Striking cross LOC terror camps have been avoided till now (except in special cases) because of the lack of any real impact on the ground. The terrorists are more like sacrificial lambs, of little cost to the PA &ISI, with much higher interests. They are extremely disposable.

And in any case, there is no dearth of radicalised youths in Pak who wants their 72 virgins. Even if we wipe out one or two terrorist camps, some more will simply crop up in different places. A lot lost and nothing gained for the operation of striking their bases.

The only way we will have hard impact is if the middle tier ranks of the terrorists and their handlets are hit and eliminated. Most preferrably by R&AW's SG, without the flash and noise of a Spec ops assault. This is what needs to be done. The upper levels of the terrorist outfits are not really useful candidates for assasination, as they don not hold operational control. They may be the masyerminds, but the plans are drawn up and perfected by the middle ranks.

There are indeed several rumours of SG being active in POK, but as of now, no whispers have emerged of them conducting such missions. What is their purpose in POK is anybody's guess. We also know that the ARC flies missions deep into LoC as a matter of routine.

I can recall a specific leak (very quickly plugged by the IA and GOI) of the presence of assets inside POK. The army CO stated that elements across the LOC had alerted the IA of a large infiltration party aporoaching the LOC. This later resulted in a big success. The GOI and the IA very quickly covered this up and several rumours were leaked to cover up this. This happened a few months after 26/11.

Actually bombing terror camps may result into a full scale war with Pak, and this is the only fear that has kept us away from doing do. But within 2 years the scene will be different, US forces will leave Afghanistan, so such terror attacks will only increase and the question I asked will become highly relevant. Your suggestion is good but I doubt R&AW will be able to do that in Pakistan, the only possible scene which comes into my mind is India getting attacked every now and then; but are we ready to tolerate them ?

 

[DivineHeretic]

Thanks!

So RAW is alive everywhere except pakistan?

WRT pakistan, it seems either RAW is ineffective or their cover is too effective! Hope its the later...

Not true. Raw is indeed very active inside Pak. From its inception until the late 90s the R&AW had a very agressive capability against Pak. You might want to read about Counterintelligence Team-X(CIT-X)-and-Counterintelligence Team-J(CIT-J) to learn more about its ops and mandate.

IK Gujral and PV Narashingha Rao are the two persons responsible for destruction of the offensive covert capacity of R&AW against Pak. Why? Because they thought it was immoral. WTF!!!!

R&AW has since been reeling under the impact of their decision. However now, some signs are there that this capacity is being re-established, but I cannot give you any direct sources for my claim.

In any case, RAW has shifted to electronic and UAV surveillence of Pak. Several low profile prcurements have occured recently to shore up the ELINT and SIGINT?
Here's one

The agency is to acquire two Bombardier jets packed with Israeli multi-mission airborne reconnaissance and surveillance systems that will multiply its capability along Pakistan and China borders. This was 3 years ago.

After 20 years, India’s RAW upgrades to super spy jets | StratRisks

Also note that the IAF also conducts several SIGINT AND ELINT missions on a routine basis. The IAF AC (particularly the SU-30) on border patrol are equipped with reconnaisance pods to evesdrop on Pak and Chinese communication. Then there is the low profile but extremely capable signal and communication interception and decrypting system onboard the Phalcons. With it IAF can and does monitor Pak airspace and field communications as far as 300km away.

 

[DivineHeretic]

b

Actually bombing terror camps may result into a full scale war with Pak, and this is the only fear that has kept us away from doing do. But within 2 years the scene will be different, US forces will leave Afghanistan, so such terror attacks will only increase and the question I asked will become highly relevant. Your suggestion is good but I doubt R&AW will be able to do that in Pakistan, the only possible scene which comes into my mind is India getting attacked every now and then; but are we ready to tolerate them ?

You are right that the threat of escallation is a huge factor in our decision to not target Pak camps, but the other reasons hold similar weight, if not more.
You should read about CIT-X and CIT-J to understand just what RAW can do if given the mandate,the time and resources.

About 2014, I'm not sure that the script will play out as the Pakistanis claim. For one the US is not going anywhere until 2024. Secondly if the ISAF forces withdraw, the first country to feel the heat will be Pak. The TTP will not turn around and hug Kayani's men in a flash (or out of gay love : p). The TTP will find safe heavens in Afg. And what happens after that is anybody's guess. They want nothing short of sharia over Islamabad.

But we will likely see more attacks for a few years. The infiltration bid will certainly increase, but you must remember that unlike Afg, the IA is deeply entrenched in Kashmir, controlling the most heavily guarded border in the world, with one of the densest sensor grids in the world. The infiltrators cannot use large groups, as it will mean suicide infront of IA.

You could read The Monkey Trap to understand how the current events are going in our favour. Sure some hits will have to be taken, it will be paid for in blood.

 

[Yusuf]

This threat of escalation thing has only exposed the cowardice in the govt. The threat for escalation works both ways and we know who has won all the wars that escalated.

There is something called limited response and covert action. What stopped India from killing Hafiz Saeed? What stops India from bombing known terror camps in PoK?

The onus will be on Pakistan if it wants to escalate and as a powerful army that we consider ourselves, we should be more than ready to respond.

 

[DivineHeretic]

This threat of escalation thing has only exposed the cowardice in the govt. The threat for escalation works both ways and we know who has won all the wars that escalated.

There is something called limited response and covert action. What stopped India from killing Hafiz Saeed? What stops India from bombing known terror camps in PoK?

The onus will be on Pakistan if it wants to escalate and as a powerful army that we consider ourselves, we should be more than ready to respond.

You dont expect rats to turn Lions on getting hold of power. No matter where they are, cowardice follows them.

The problem with several senior bureaucrats is that they think of US raid on Abbotabad when thinking of killing Hafiz Saied. When in reality they shoul look at much more practical and simple solutions, ala assasination by R&AW's own SG. Quick work without the aftermath. And no proof

Bombing terrorist camps are pretty useless. They hardly hold 40-100 members in one camp. And there are as many as 50 camps. And worst of all, they can simply change their location on being found out.

 

[limit_sky]

This threat of escalation thing has only exposed the cowardice in the govt. The threat for escalation works both ways and we know who has won all the wars that escalated.

There is something called limited response and covert action. What stopped India from killing Hafiz Saeed? What stops India from bombing known terror camps in PoK?

The onus will be on Pakistan if it wants to escalate and as a powerful army that we consider ourselves, we should be more than ready to respond.

Current position on LOC is very much dependent on who holds dominating position and differs sector to sector. This is coupled by the fact that the Pak army donot discriminate between military and civilian target while shelling. Also if tables are turned would run to hid their as**s inside civilian villages and fire from there.
Under this scenario constant escalation would mean you are in loss of goodwill of your villages who would be at loss of their livelihood and living out from shelters and bunkers.(very difficult to reason with people who have a loss of livelihood for considerable period of time).

so, escalation after each incident is not feasible, but being unpredictable is as they cannot lower their guard and they don't have reserves(operating ratio peacetime/active duty) is skewed and naturally it will take its toll.