Tejas will not be ready for war before end-2015

Blackwater

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 9, 2012
Messages
21,157
Likes
12,211
India should immediately stopped/dropped LCA/NAG/AKASH and ARJUN project to avoid further financial loss and embarrassment:sad::sad::sad::p:p
 

Waffen SS

New Member
Joined
Apr 28, 2013
Messages
492
Likes
348
Money for the first two Td was allotted only in 1993. if you have a design configuration all finalized in files , the fighter just won't spring out of the file after certain period of time is over from the files are finalized. You need to put the money down where the mouth is and build tech demos , Pvs , LPs and test fly them
I cant understand why every process in India is slow?:frusty:
EVERY PROCESS,from allotting money to every thing ( Including kick backs, eh, :taunt1:)

Chinese Xian JH-7- Program authorized in 1983, first flight in 1988, introduction in 1992, entered in service in 2004, our Tejas started from 1969, still not ready?!

From Wikipedia.
 

sayareakd

Mod
Joined
Feb 17, 2009
Messages
17,734
Likes
18,951
Country flag
even IAF inducted SU 30 MK which were not ready for war, first and later on they inducted SU 30 MKIs.

It is not that you just induct the fighter and on the same day went to war with it.............. if the fighter plane need to be understood by the pilot, he should feel it as extension of his own body only then he can perform on it as he wants. It is not that just take the rifle, point it on the target and shoot.
 

ersakthivel

Brilliance
Senior Member
Joined
Mar 6, 2011
Messages
7,029
Likes
8,762
Country flag
EVERY PROCESS,from allotting money to every thing ( Including kick backs, eh, :taunt1:)

Chinese Xian JH-7- Program authorized in 1983, first flight in 1988, introduction in 1992, entered in service in 2004, our Tejas started from 1969, still not ready?!

From Wikipedia.
Lca is not a foreign buy. so no scope for kick back as of yet


Why don't you quote the time line for RAFALE and TYPHOON?

reverse engineered non RSS- FCS fighters can be entered into service much faster than that,

But FCS validation of RSS-FBW fighter like Tejas will take it's own time,


And funding was delayed by several years, project definition started at 1983 all right and was over by 1987 , but financial crunch of the 1990 led to funding for two TDs being cleared only in 1993. Six years lost and that too with the caveat that only two Tds must be built and all tech to be validated. After the validation of tech only further PVs and LSPS were to be cleared.It is not 10 or 12 PVS and LSPs rolled out of HAL line within a couple of years of the TDs,

fairly late in the program IAF upgraded the requirements in 2004 leading to to FSED-2

IAF upgraded it's specs in 2004 which led to a newer strengthened wing form to with stand higher launch stress of R-73 missiles , leading to FSED-phase -2 in 2004.So no body is saying that LCA is not delayed, but most of it due to circumstances far beyond the control of the developer,

for your information 40 SU-30 MKIs in IAF spent 10 years doing nothing but honing the tactics, because they were inducted without even weapon integration, compared to that Lca Tejas has already integrated air to air and air to ground capabilities, The typhoon is yet to be cleared for ground roles.

So when you compare LCA devleopmental time frame compare it with similar fly by wire Relaxed static stability fighters like RAFALE and TYPHOON.

Typhoon took seventeen years from first metal cut to induction, for tejas it is now 20 years and Serial production has already started and LSP-7 has participated in IAF live fist exercise fired air to air missiles and dropped laser guided bombs as well.
 
Last edited:

Bhadra

Professional
Joined
Jul 11, 2011
Messages
11,991
Likes
23,758
Country flag
I see arms agents lobby see phase out of Mig 21 as chance for induction of foreign plane, therefore these types of stories in the media.
You mean even Saint Antony is one of them... only D O D O s are Deshbhakt...

Leave that mindset aside as it is not helpful... for the country..
 

ersakthivel

Brilliance
Senior Member
Joined
Mar 6, 2011
Messages
7,029
Likes
8,762
Country flag
You mean even Saint Antony is one of them... only D O D O s are Deshbhakt...

Leave that mindset aside as it is not helpful... for the country..
when D O D O is not deshbakht, How come Antony is a Saint , any proof,

Why Don't you ask the great saint what is taking so long in buying an MMRCA fighter , why can't the saint's department close the deal even after 10 years of tendering , evaluation, l1, L2, contract negotiation,

and suddenly french saying that HAL is not fit enough to make RAFALE even under license production here?

If it was not the responsibility of saint's department to keep HAL up to date in tech then whose responsibility it is? Desh bakht -D O D O's perhaps,

Why don't the tejas forever late guys moan over the delays in buying a simple off the shelf fighter for 10 years,

May be important aspects like in whose offshore tax haven account who will funnel through how much is delaying the deal perhaps?

compared to that dsh bakht D O D O is lightning fast in getting IOC for Tejas in 19 years,
 

sayareakd

Mod
Joined
Feb 17, 2009
Messages
17,734
Likes
18,951
Country flag
You mean even Saint Antony is one of them... only D O D O s are Deshbhakt...

Leave that mindset aside as it is not helpful... for the country..
speaking of agents, they keep jumping in, who said anything about Defence minister.
 

ersakthivel

Brilliance
Senior Member
Joined
Mar 6, 2011
Messages
7,029
Likes
8,762
Country flag
IOC-1 is already done in 2011. And only 2 aircrafts (2-seater variant, probably) have been inducted in IAF, which are yet to see the full operational service in the LCA squadron being raised in Sulur airbase, right ?

So, the 40 LCA's ordered by IAF would be IOC-1 level or IOC-2 level ?
The F-16 was inducted within 3 years of first flight, At what level was it inducted, the venerable Mig-21 was inducted even without a radar,And the first batch of 40 SU-30 MKIs were inducted were not of the same final SU-30 MKi con fig , after honing the "fighting tactics" they are only recently being sent back to Russia to be replaced by fully capable SU-30 MKI fighters.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sukhoi_Su-30MKI

fter two years of evaluation and negotiations, India signed a US$1.462 billion deal with the Sukhoi Corporation on 30 November 1996 for the delivery of 50 Su-30MKI aircraft in five batches. The first batch were eight Su-30MKs, the basic version of Su-30. The second batch were to be 10 Su-30Ks with French and Israeli avionics. The third batch were to be 10 Su-30MKIs featuring canard foreplanes. The fourth batch of 12 Su-30MKIs and final batch of 10 Su-30MKIs aircraft all were to have the AL-31FP turbofans. These 50 aircraft were made by Sukhoi in Russia.
So fighters are inducted and they mature throughout their life cycle, which is beyond the realm of comprehension of such sensation seeking scoop writers masquerading as defence journos.if the journo wants a fully matured fighter to be inducted on date he can recommend IAF to buy the about to be close line of Mirage -2000 and start inducting fully matured fighters from day one,

The JAG s that are planned to be upgraded with a billion dollars haven't a radar during induction.

Much worse JAGS arrived unfit to perform the basic functions for which it was meant, namely deep penetration bombing. The makers palmed it off on "UNSUSPECTING ", IAF's head with faulty navigational aids that couldn't help in accurate bombing missions, It was later remedied by HAL using local talent,

other than Mirage not a single fighter was inducted into IAF without an issue and most of them are facing those issues till today decades after induction.

In fact considering such High Induction standards, the IOC-1 is a "gold standard " for Tejas.

Most of the things that are going to happen between IOC and FOC is just flight envelope opening, not a great deal of design changes. Thats why IAF agreed for IOC, and voluntarily increased it's order from 20 to 40.

And if FOC standard mandates some new changes are needed in the 40 fighters already ordered,

they can be altered later, that is why IOC -1 was called design freeze because no major changes are needed after that.
 
Last edited:

Sridhar

House keeper
Senior Member
Joined
Feb 16, 2009
Messages
3,474
Likes
1,061
Country flag
IOC - 1 ?

U.S. Marine Corps: December 2015 (with 2B software capability)

U.S. Air Force: December 2016 (with 3I software capability)

U.S. Navy: February 2019 (with 3F software capability)

USMC and USAF officials stress that the IOC dates are just that -- an initial capability. Thus, they are willing to accept the limited engagement envelope and weapons package of the 2B/3I with a growth plan to introducing the 3F software, which provides far more extensive multi-role capability, into the fleet with a full operational capability.
Finally! New F-35 IOC Dates are Firm
F35 = F16 - - (Minus minus) ?

Last week, Pierre Sprey, a co-designer of the F-16 and A-10 warplanes told some 400 people at an F-35 meeting in Burlington that the F-35 is a "shockingly" bad aircraft which will perform poorly on all of its designated missions: air-to-air combat, bombing and close support of ground troops.

Sprey said the plane lacks maneuverability, will be easily detectable despite its stealth features, will be vulnerable to surface-to-air missiles on bombing missions, has a relatively small bombing payload compared to the F-16 and must fly too high and fast to be plausible as a close-support fighter-bomber.
http://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/...d-questions-about-F-35-support?nclick_check=1
Lockheed Martin a ------ ?
 

p2prada

Senior Member
Joined
May 25, 2009
Messages
10,234
Likes
4,015
IOC - 1 ?



F35 = F16 - - (Minus minus) ?



Lockheed Martin a ------ ?
It was an incorrect assessment. Meaning in the light of new information, his assessment is obsolete. The same goes for many of Carlo Kopp's claims about the F-35.

F-35 performs better than the F-16 in most parameters. Imagine a Flanker version of the F-16 and F-35 is just that. Heck chase F-16s had to use afterburner just to keep up with F-35 prototypes, and we are already talking about very powerful engines on the F-16. F-35's engine power is going to be boosted a lot more to 200KN or more before it is inducted.
 

ersakthivel

Brilliance
Senior Member
Joined
Mar 6, 2011
Messages
7,029
Likes
8,762
Country flag
The current Tejas radome is in test phase, the above mention maybe a breakthrough and yet to be tested in real time to know how much it can perform.
Even if there was a particular problem in devlopment the radome could be imported until the problem is solved, as many components of tejas are impotred and can be localized only during serial production. it is not going to delay the FOC.
 

Payeng

Daku Mongol Singh
Senior Member
Joined
Mar 7, 2009
Messages
2,522
Likes
777
Even if there was a particular problem in devlopment the radome could be imported until the problem is solved, as many components of tejas are impotred and can be localized only during serial production. it is not going to delay the FOC.
Not sure if you can find a ready made radome specifically tailored for LCA.
 

natarajan

Senior Member
Joined
Jul 28, 2009
Messages
2,592
Likes
762
Let it come slowly as though after 2015 we would retaliate when pakistan soldier behead our soldiers or chinese come 20 km inside only because of tejas now we are dealing them diplomatically
 
Joined
Feb 16, 2009
Messages
29,797
Likes
48,276
Country flag
Why announce when it will be done? For all we know it make be done now?
 

p2prada

Senior Member
Joined
May 25, 2009
Messages
10,234
Likes
4,015
Whoa! Whoa! Why all the confusion? LCA radome is made in India.
 

Global Defence

New threads

Articles

Top