TEDBF or ORCA Updates

[IndianHawk]

Best case scenario, AMCA & ORCA would be ready for flight by 2025 & induction by 2029-30... That's a whole decade!

Yes but mrca even if selected and signed by 2022 then first jet will only arrive by 2025. So the difference is really just 4-5 years.

And the gap can be made up by additional mk1a and more mwf. Mwf itself will start serial production in 2026.

We can hold on for tedbf as it will be much much cheaper than rafale. Look at the price of lca MK1 a
About 40 million even if tebdf/ orca costs about 70 million it will be very affordable.

For 126 more Rafael / f18 well be able to afford 200 orca .

 

[nongaddarliberal]

Several jets like Gripen & T-50 run production based on American engines. They'll sell us F-414... especially guaranteed if we select F-18 (just gotta copy-paste its butt then), but otherwise too.

What we should do is get ToT for F-414 EPE & start building it in house, as well as grow 120kN+ engine based on that, instead of wasting time with Snecma whose own engine is much less powered.

Gripen and T 50 belong to subservient countries of America, Sweden and SoKo respectively. With the rising anti Indian sentiment of democrats, there is no guarantee that they will sell us engines and spares in the future. India's reputation in America has gone down significantly after leftist propaganda for the past few months. They're going ahead with sanctions for the s400 purchase. They will create more issues for us in the years to come. Only a modified Safran engine will be a safe option for our future fighters.

 

[Bleh]

Yup it's thicc! But it doesn't have canards and wings of tebdf have to be foldable. Wonder what changes that will bring to width

LCA Navy Mark2 probably would come with foldable wings. It was already quite wider than the MWF.
Unlike Mirage-Rafale comparison, where the former is much sleeker, like Tejas Mark1/2...

...but wing-area may need increasing, so wingspan might change. But not much i think.

Anyways, my edits only have slight elongation of fuselage & pushing the cockpit forward to make room for canards placed similarly as MWF.

 

[cyclops]

With this feat, the indigenously developed niche technologies specific to deck based fighter operations have been proven, which will now pave the way to develop and manufacture the Twin Engine Deck Based Fighter for the #IndianNavy.


BTW, NLCA landing.

 

[Bleh]

Super Tejas — what’s the point? Opinion on twin-engine Tejas from Shiv Aroor

Hushkit met up with leading Indian defence reporter Shiv Aroor to find out more about the mysterious ORCA artworks revealed by a Tejas test pilot.

What is the point?
“Well to start off, these aren’t official renders by the Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA) that administers Tejas, but, as I understand it, from some folks at HAL which builds the Tejas. Now to the point. The ADA tells me it was ‘forced’ to propose a twin-engine Tejas design specifically because the Indian Navy has put a hard stop to ambiguity over whether it will operate the existing N-LCA. The sense I got directly from the top is that the team isn’t particularly pleased with the idea of ditching the N-LCA for the twin-engine configuration. So the point, if there is one, is to meet the Indian Navy’s requirement under existing commitments to supply a carrier-compatible fighter. That this will involve an air force variant is obvious. But it’s important to acknowledge that there would be no twin-engine Tejas design of any kind if there was no Indian Navy stipulation to the effect. So this springs from the Indian Navy, not the Air Force.”

Is it a good idea?
“Like a lot of things, this looks like robust on paper. I’ve seen reports that there’s a six-year development path to first flight and highly optimistic pathways to getting this project off the ground. If those timelines are even remotely realistic, it could be a good idea. ”

Will it happen?
“While I fully support indigenous aerospace design, I very much doubt this will be a reality for a variety of reasons. For one thing, I don’t think Indian Navy requirements have ever compelled major aircraft design decisions in the country — and they’re not about to start. Even the N-LCA was an afterthought. The Indian Air Force might be more inclined towards a lower-risk LCA Mk.II/MWF that was revealed in concept form a year ago. The IAF has only just begun warming to the Tejas Mk.1 and looks forward to the Mk.1A. I doubt it’ll be looking to see another development path towards a fourth-gen fighter. My sense is it would rather see design hours and resources dedicated to the stealthy AMCA. And I agree with that inclination. Finally, budgetary resources are already stretched thin between committed purchases and existing projects like the AMCA. Adding a new one will merely slow things down.”

 

[charlie]

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Shaitan]

https://twitter.com/HarshalPal5

 

[Bleh]

Harshal Pal's 3d rendering of TEDBF/ORCA... Nothing compared to Kuntal's work though.

 

[Trololo]

This ?

View attachment 40205

Please enter a message with at least 30 characters.

Any advantages/ disadvantages of this design? Why was it rejected? Looks rather sexy IMHO.

 

[Bleh]

And here is your ans to AMCA vs ORCA!..

 

[Chain smoker]

And here is your ans to AMCA vs ORCA!..

But what about funding?................

 

[Bleh]

But what about funding?................

Who do you think I am?.. I only share what info I find.

 

[Chain smoker]

Who do you think I am?.. I only share what info I find.

May be navy is alone going with the project.

 

[Raj Malhotra]

Perhaps ORCA is a pretext for Navy to reject NLCA MK2 and go for Rafale or F35, as ORCA will not see squadron level entry before 2035

 

[IndianHawk]

And here is your ans to AMCA vs ORCA!..

I was saying the same thing on another thread . That naval amca is far away and navy wants tedbf. Why don't people listen to me

And time line is also perfect. First flight by2026 means entry into service by 2030. ( With concurrent development just like mwf.)

And if tedbf is coming then orca will naturally follow because AMCA will be very costly. That also means 57 naval jet competition is dead. And so is mmrca . Another batch of rafale might come , ordered by 2022 and dellivered between 2025-28. By then we'll have our own rafale in form of tedbf/ orca .

 

[Kchontha]

India needs tedbf fighters besides nlca mk2 because fifth gen aircraft are expensive to maintain. Further these 4.5 gen aircraft will be there until a very long time.

 

[Bleh]

May be navy is alone going with the project.

Nope, another source said cofunded joint dev of TEDBF and ORCA for Navy and Air force side by side.

I was saying the same thing on another thread . That naval amca is far away and navy wants tedbf. Why don't people listen to me

And time line is also perfect. First flight by2026 means entry into service by 2030. ( With concurrent development just like mwf.)

And if tedbf is coming then orca will naturally follow because AMCA will be very costly. That also means 57 naval jet competition is dead. And so is mmrca . Another batch of rafale might come , ordered by 2022 and dellivered between 2025-28. By then we'll have our own rafale in form of tedbf/ orca .

More importantly with those small wings, it is not physics wise possible for AMCA to be anywhere near as manoeuvrable as canarded delta ORCA, not with the same engine. Even its TVC post-stall moves will be clumsier and harder to recover.

AMCA will remain a stealthy BVR sniper or striker, while MWF/ORCA plays the bomb truck and dogfighter.

 

[IndianHawk]

AMCA will remain a stealthy BVR sniper or striker, while MWF/ORCA plays the bomb truck and dogfighter.

Yup that seems to be the intention. In future aura might take over stealthy bombing role while commanded and guided by amca.

 

[Kchontha]

If ADA develops both nlca mk 2 and tedbf simultaneously it will be good for Indian navy.

 

[Aniruddha Mulay]

If ADA develops both nlca mk 2 and tedbf simultaneously it will be good for Indian navy.

I think NLCA is TD as the Navy does not want a single engine fighter jet for carrier ops.
So making a NLCA Mk2 is a dead end.
TEDBF should be the prime focus for ADA.