Taj Mahal was built using traditional measurement units mentioned in the Arthasastra

Singh

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Re: Taj Mahal was built using traditional measurement units mentioned in the Arthasas

You are the king, You can always close any thread or delete any post/thread which looks not secular as per your definition of secularism.
\

Thanks for taking a swipe at me. Maybe a few years back, you would've riled me up not any more. I don't delete, close posts/threads based on secularism, stupidity yes.
 

Singh

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Re: Taj Mahal was built using traditional measurement units mentioned in the Arthasas

I think we should let the members post evidences and arguments, at least it will be interesting to learn new facts about Taj Mahal, I heard about it but never read such detailed studies. And for Taj Mahal Oak's arguments were making some sense :) but not those like "Pope was a Hindu priest" :rofl: however you may disagree with me.

@MI


:nod:
I have no qualms if members post evidence/arguments but it should be on the relevant thread. This is actually a thread on science and technology.

If you re-read my post here

"Actually this thread is useless.
To reiterate it says that the Taj Mahal engineers used a unit of measurement which made divisions easier, this unit of measurement is also mentioned in arthashashtra....

... You and I sitting miles or centuries apart can discover the same thing that is the reason why Alan Lightman quit science. Science is never created, it is always discovered."


If somebody like yourself wants to prove that Kaba is a ShivaLinga, Pope a vedic priest, Christianity and Islam distortion of vedas and other theories which later Mr. Oak propounded be my guest.
 

pmaitra

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Re: Taj Mahal was built using traditional measurement units mentioned in the Arthasas

You are the king, You can always close any thread or delete any post/thread which looks not secular as per your definition of secularism.
C'mon Galaxy, you have the right to express yourself, but why are you playing the 'king' card, just like you played the 'mod' card with me earlier?

\

Thanks for taking a swipe at me. Maybe a few years back, you would've riled me up not any more. I don't delete, close posts/threads based on secularism, stupidity yes.
Honestly Singh, I would not let the fear of accusations, be it of any kind, prevent me from doing what I deem as morally and ethically sound.

At the end of the day, we are all humans, and no human is perfect, and no human is completely unbiased. One cannot make everyone happy, and we all have to resign to this reality.
 

Mad Indian

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Re: Taj Mahal was built using traditional measurement units mentioned in the Arthasas

we snap back... very hard. :)
Which is wrong. There should be consistency, More liberal is better always
 

Singh

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Re: Taj Mahal was built using traditional measurement units mentioned in the Arthasas

See...I personally not sure about Taj Mahal nor i ever posted.

See OP, the topic was different. Someone else posted about Tejo Mahalya.

I read his research long back. It has some very concrete reason and logic. I have not see a single person who has ridiculed his reasons. Everybody just bash him and not the content may be because they don't have the answer.

We all know nothing is going to happen. Taj Mahal will always be Taj Mahal.

But if someone gave it's research based on many facts. Then the one who is ridiculing him should give some reason. Actually, I also want others to prove him wrong.

This TM has nothing to do with some other monuments.
I deleted those posts because your thread, though started for whatever reasons, is ultimately about science and technology. I tried to keep it true to its spirit, but it went off on a tangent. Please refer to my reply to Achauhan for further explanation.

Now that I have explained myself, which I am entitled rather enjoined not to.

Mr. Oak's theories would appeal to novice, depending on their knowledge of the subject, biasis, iq etc.

His peers have yet to acknowledge his theories as being somewhat even plausible. OTOH his wiki page had full of links of others decrying him. And since his support base consists of people of a particular ideology rather than scientists that is enough to send my alarm bells ringing.

If, however, people believe that scientific rigor is not required to accept theories as facts, and that they are persuaded by pedantic arguments and opinions then they are welcome to discuss them.
 

Singh

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Re: Taj Mahal was built using traditional measurement units mentioned in the Arthasas

Which is wrong. There should be consistency, More liberal is better always
Thanks, will keep that in mind.
 

A chauhan

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Re: Taj Mahal was built using traditional measurement units mentioned in the Arthasas

I have no qualms if members post evidence/arguments but it should be on the relevant thread. This is actually a thread on science and technology.

If you re-read my post here

"Actually this thread is useless.
To reiterate it says that the Taj Mahal engineers used a unit of measurement which made divisions easier, this unit of measurement is also mentioned in arthashashtra....

... You and I sitting miles or centuries apart can discover the same thing that is the reason why Alan Lightman quit science. Science is never created, it is always discovered."


If somebody like yourself wants to prove that Kaba is a ShivaLinga, Pope a vedic priest, Christianity and Islam distortion of vedas and other theories which later Mr. Oak propounded be my guest.
That is an intended insult and i don't accept that ! So far as Kaba, Pope, Christianity and Islam are concerned I don't give a sh!t to anything which is not in India.

However Oak's petition was rejected by SC saying it "misconceived" so there is not much to discuss but at least we can learn something new from it.
 
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Singh

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Re: Taj Mahal was built using traditional measurement units mentioned in the Arthasas

^^ It was not intended as a insult, I apologize if you feel offended. Just wanted to highlight using this post that if somebody wants to discuss Tejo mahalaya and other theories of PN oak such as those mentioned they may do so on another thread.
 

Mad Indian

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Re: Taj Mahal was built using traditional measurement units mentioned in the Arthasas

Man, running a forum is hard is it not. Pmaitra is right, you cant make everyone happy :)
 

A chauhan

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Re: Taj Mahal was built using traditional measurement units mentioned in the Arthasas

^^ It was not intended as a insult, I apologize if you feel offended. Just wanted to highlight using this post that if somebody wants to discuss Tejo mahalaya and other theories of PN oak such as those mentioned they may do so on another thread.
Sorry if I misunderstood ! I also meant no disrespect. Actually 'Kaba is a ShivaLinga', 'Pope a Hindu Priest', 'distorted Christianity and Islam' are just disgusting type of topics, so i felt so, but anyways lets come back to the topic!
 

LurkerBaba

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Re: Taj Mahal was built using traditional measurement units mentioned in the Arthasas

Actually Oak's arguments appeared to be genuine they have some grounds valid or not only time will tell, but you after deleting 3 posts containing those facts calling it a crap! :rolleyes:

P.N.Oak's research is based on many facts and not just opinion. I have only seen people ridiculing him on personal basis and not based on the merit of research. I think there should be intensive research to find out the truth.

I personally not sure and i also believe no matter what, It will remain as Taj Mahal because it's one of the 7th wonder of the world and attract lots of tourist.

@Galaxy, you mentioned that you've read Rajiv Malhotra's books. Have you ever viewed his Yahoo group ?

Foreigners are translating Sanskrit and disseminating our culture. What are Hindus doing ? Coming up with retarded nonsense like Tejo Mahalya, Nuclear War in Vedas, Ancient Aliens etc.

You know what is the result ? Genuine, well researched theories which run contrary to popular opinion are rubbished as 'Hindu Nationalist' distortions.

This makes all of us look stupid and a disgrace to Indian civilization. Rajiv Malhotra echoes these views btw
 

aerokan

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Re: Taj Mahal was built using traditional measurement units mentioned in the Arthasas

@Galaxy, you mentioned that you've read Rajiv Malhotra's books. Have you ever viewed his Yahoo group ?

Foreigners are translating Sanskrit and disseminating our culture. What are Hindus doing ? Coming up with retarded nonsense like Tejo Mahalya, Nuclear War in Vedas, Ancient Aliens etc.

You know what is the result ? Genuine, well researched theories which run contrary to popular opinion are rubbished as 'Hindu Nationalist' distortions.

This makes all of us look stupid and a disgrace to Indian civilization. Rajiv Malhotra echoes these views btw
"Our Destinies Have Changed" - YouTube

Spock: "If you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth."

Does anyone here care to find the facts in a logical manner other than rubbishing a person's theories without even looking at the points and research presented based on the judgement of the previous arguments and personal prejudices??

If anyone of you want to strike down Mr. Oak's assertions, please do it a logical way. When he gives a hundred reasons why it should be tejo mahalaya, atleast contest 4-5 of them to atleast make a case for your argument. Though 4-5 is still in the margin of error in this case, it can be acceptable for the rest as a start of a logical discussion.

How come tejo mahalaya, nuclear wars in the past etc.. became retarded nonsense? When you say foreigners are translating sanskrit and disseminating our culture, you should also be familiar with the kind of academic dishonorable acts of them. FYI, there are several hindus and hindu organizations working in different countries doing genuine research. Personally i have friends who are working on bringing out facts. Also if you have superimposed current and future technologies, you can decrypt the essential core components of hinduism (which i have done with considerable success).

FYI, probability theory indicates that if the sample size is large enough, you can predict the outcomes with a reasonable chance. Different theories and a multitude of attempts to analyse a concept or a theory will eventually increase the chances of getting nearer to the truth, irrespective of the liking of the psuedo-intellectuals who couldn't argue with facts and logic.

PS: I request our forum mod "kapil sibal" not to censor this post citing the upholding of forum ethos as was done before :rolleyes:
 

Sabir

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Re: Taj Mahal was built using traditional measurement units mentioned in the Arthasas

Taj Mahal = Tejo Mahalaya

Christianity = Krishna + niti

Vatican = Vatika :)
 

panduranghari

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"Our Destinies Have Changed" - YouTube

Spock: "If you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth."

Does anyone here care to find the facts in a logical manner other than rubbishing a person's theories without even looking at the points and research presented based on the judgement of the previous arguments and personal prejudices??

If anyone of you want to strike down Mr. Oak's assertions, please do it a logical way. When he gives a hundred reasons why it should be tejo mahalaya, atleast contest 4-5 of them to atleast make a case for your argument. Though 4-5 is still in the margin of error in this case, it can be acceptable for the rest as a start of a logical discussion.

How come tejo mahalaya, nuclear wars in the past etc.. became retarded nonsense? When you say foreigners are translating sanskrit and disseminating our culture, you should also be familiar with the kind of academic dishonorable acts of them. FYI, there are several hindus and hindu organizations working in different countries doing genuine research. Personally i have friends who are working on bringing out facts. Also if you have superimposed current and future technologies, you can decrypt the essential core components of hinduism (which i have done with considerable success).

FYI, probability theory indicates that if the sample size is large enough, you can predict the outcomes with a reasonable chance. Different theories and a multitude of attempts to analyse a concept or a theory will eventually increase the chances of getting nearer to the truth, irrespective of the liking of the psuedo-intellectuals who couldn't argue with facts and logic.

PS: I request our forum mod "kapil sibal" not to censor this post citing the upholding of forum ethos as was done before :rolleyes:
Aerokan, to appease minorities one has to do things like this. Many mods here are not anti -Hindu but they won't tolerate anti Muslim agenda. It is certainly proven from the very many posts. A certain Australia based poster comes up with exceeding about of BS which goes unchallenged.

Anyway just to set record straight if there is enough demand, the supreme court would permit the investigation of PN Oak's allegations which are not only plausible but also convincing if you wish to take time reading through them.
 

Sabir

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Re: Taj Mahal was built using traditional measurement units mentioned in the Arthasas

@ Aerokan....can you post some of the arguments of Mr Oak in precise manner? I read them earlier and found many inconsistencies.

He claimed Mahal is a Sanskrit word and no Muslim Manument from Afghanistan to Algeria the term Mahal is used. Unfortunately mahal is a persian word. You may have heard of Begum Mahal, Sheesh Mahal etc.

Archietecture of Taj Mahal is Mostly Persian blended with Hindu tradition as both Hindu and Parsian artists were employed by the Mughals- the dome, calligraphy and floral designs on wall etc were clearly Persian. Muslims are forbidden to paint living birds,animal etc to decorate rooms while living animals, human figures are most vivid themes of Hindu architecture.

There is inconsistency in Oak's claim also. Somewhere he said it was a Shiva Temple, somewhere he claimed it was a magnificent palace owned by Maharaja of Jaipur. However, the Muslims occupied Delhi and surrounding areas 300 years before ShahJahan. I doubt swords of Alauddin Khalji & Co left anything to be claimed by Maharaja of Jaipur that was also near their capital. Propably Mr Oak did not read about Delhi Sultanate. He said all ' Eye witness accounts, accounts of Taj Mahal etc' are made to cover up the truth. One hand , he was rubbishing all proofs as fabricated, on the other hand he was asking to believe whatever he was saying.

There were some funny stuffs like photographs of - apparent "OMM" in a lotus decoration (like devil's face in smoke of WTC on 9/11), the pincle of Taj Mahal (I didnt understand what he tried to prove but it look like a common cresent present even in the Mosque opposite my ancestral house.

However, I didnt know what is mentioned in Padshanama of Lahori , if the book is available anywhere you can check yourself. If such thing is mentioned anywhere in the book that would have not gone unnoticed as the book was considered important source of ShahJahan's reign. I dont believe it is the case of Millions fools and one smart guy (Oak). I doubt about the existence of some travellers he mentioned.

At the end, his qualification and other works have importance here. He was neither a Professor anywhere as mentioned in some websites nor a historian. A man's works build his credibility. Now, I am not prepared to accept someone who just juggled with words ( Like Christianity originated from Krishna Niti or Vatican from Sanskrit Vatika) and made so many absurd claims (already posted). However, I have seen the quaks to rule in villages.
 

aerokan

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Re: Taj Mahal was built using traditional measurement units mentioned in the Arthasas

@ Aerokan....can you post some of the arguments of Mr Oak in precise manner? I read them earlier and found many inconsistencies.

He claimed Mahal is a Sanskrit word and no Muslim Manument from Afghanistan to Algeria the term Mahal is used. Unfortunately mahal is a persian word. You may have heard of Begum Mahal, Sheesh Mahal etc.

Archietecture of Taj Mahal is Mostly Persian blended with Hindu tradition as both Hindu and Parsian artists were employed by the Mughals- the dome, calligraphy and floral designs on wall etc were clearly Persian. Muslims are forbidden to paint living birds,animal etc to decorate rooms while living animals, human figures are most vivid themes of Hindu architecture.

There is inconsistency in Oak's claim also. Somewhere he said it was a Shiva Temple, somewhere he claimed it was a magnificent palace owned by Maharaja of Jaipur. However, the Muslims occupied Delhi and surrounding areas 300 years before ShahJahan. I doubt swords of Alauddin Khalji & Co left anything to be claimed by Maharaja of Jaipur that was also near their capital. Propably Mr Oak did not read about Delhi Sultanate. He said all ' Eye witness accounts, accounts of Taj Mahal etc' are made to cover up the truth. One hand , he was rubbishing all proofs as fabricated, on the other hand he was asking to believe whatever he was saying.

There were some funny stuffs like photographs of - apparent "OMM" in a lotus decoration (like devil's face in smoke of WTC on 9/11), the pincle of Taj Mahal (I didnt understand what he tried to prove but it look like a common cresent present even in the Mosque opposite my ancestral house.

However, I didnt know what is mentioned in Padshanama of Lahori , if the book is available anywhere you can check yourself. If such thing is mentioned anywhere in the book that would have not gone unnoticed as the book was considered important source of ShahJahan's reign. I dont believe it is the case of Millions fools and one smart guy (Oak). I doubt about the existence of some travellers he mentioned.

At the end, his qualification and other works have importance here. He was neither a Professor anywhere as mentioned in some websites nor a historian. A man's works build his credibility. Now, I am not prepared to accept someone who just juggled with words ( Like Christianity originated from Krishna Niti or Vatican from Sanskrit Vatika) and made so many absurd claims (already posted). However, I have seen the quaks to rule in villages.
@Sabir.. Sorry buddy.. i don't have time to research or the motivation to prove Oak's claims. It's his research... not mine. I just asked to make an argument based on logic rather than prejudices about a person.

Anyways, i will try to answer some arguments you made based on things i remember from several years back. Oak made an argument abt the sanskrit word 'mahalaya' not mahal per se. Also since u mentioned, i would like to know some names of the monuments which end with mahal in the countries from afghanistan to algeria. The names you gave are indian mahals.

Architecture wise, you cannot exactly say that the living organisms and human figures should figure on the temple especially considering that it is a shiv temple. He said that the temple was under the patronage of the maharaja's family for generations. So the basis of sultanate owning and taking control without any resistance is just a invalid argument.

If you don't know the difference between a common muslim cresent and a hindu 'poorna khumbam', you would be better off starting from the scratch even before arguing on Oak's claims.

We have so many professors and historians who make a living by distoring the history and guiding people down the wrong path. What credibility do we have if we believe blindly based on titles without giving it a rational thought? Atleast give him some credit for spending lot of time in his life.

BTW.. Don't we have the same story of moses splitting the red sea and the sea being split for krishna when he was a child? A strange coincidence of non-standard miracles at the same time? Just a food for thought for you.. :thumb:
 

Sabir

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Re: Taj Mahal was built using traditional measurement units mentioned in the Arthasas

@Sabir.. Sorry buddy.. i don't have time to research or the motivation to prove Oak's claims. It's his research... not mine. I just asked to make an argument based on logic rather than prejudices about a person.

Anyways, i will try to answer some arguments you made based on things i remember from several years back. Oak made an argument abt the sanskrit word 'mahalaya' not mahal per se. Also since u mentioned, i would like to know some names of the monuments which end with mahal in the countries from afghanistan to algeria. The names you gave are indian mahals.

Architecture wise, you cannot exactly say that the living organisms and human figures should figure on the temple especially considering that it is a shiv temple. He said that the temple was under the patronage of the maharaja's family for generations. So the basis of sultanate owning and taking control without any resistance is just a invalid argument.

If you don't know the difference between a common muslim cresent and a hindu 'poorna khumbam', you would be better off starting from the scratch even before arguing on Oak's claims.

We have so many professors and historians who make a living by distoring the history and guiding people down the wrong path. What credibility do we have if we believe blindly based on titles without giving it a rational thought? Atleast give him some credit for spending lot of time in his life.

BTW.. Don't we have the same story of moses splitting the red sea and the sea being split for krishna when he was a child? A strange coincidence of non-standard miracles at the same time? Just a food for thought for you.. :thumb:
Have you gone through his works you can find youself the inconsistency in his works. Somewhere he claims it to be a Shiva temple somewhere it to be a magnificent monument. The issue relating the property of Jai Singh is not anything new to discover. It is quite widely accepted the property belonged to Jai Singh's family (source : Padshanama) which was swaped with another property in Agra. But do you thing it is enough to prove that the same monument was standing there at the same time. However Padshanama doesnt mention about any temple rather a mansion suitable for a high official in the empire. And Oak has not given any proof that there was temple under patronage of Jai Singh's family for generation. Most propably that property they owned from Akber's reign for Man Singh's service for the Mughal. However, this claim just my speculation as I think it is quite difficult for Jai Singh's family to own any palace in Agra which was under control of the Sultanate for 400 years before Akber.

What Oak tries to prove not clear from another point- whether there was a temple or palace which was demolished and modern TAj Mahal was build or the whole building what we see standing there was built 300 years before Shah Jahan? The first arguement still have some possibility but the second one seems quite impossible. Any person with some knowledge about architecture will testify it to be a Parsian architecture.

Oak blatantly claims the term 'Mahal' is of Sanskrit origin. What do you say about it? As much I know it was of Prsian origin which means place ....which later became synonymous with mansion, even it sometimes used as synonymous of ambience in hindi and urdu....

DO you think the pinacle and the 'OMM in lotus' can be considered any proof just because he felt the pinacle looks like a trisul or there is a hidden omm written in the lotus decoration in the wall? BTW dont hesitate to explain if you think I dont know the difference between A or B. Even the great historian Oak didnt know the difference between Persian and Indian architecture. Now explain me what is 'Puna Kumbham' and why the pinacle should be nothing other than that? And who tell you that the pinacle of a mosque has to be a classical cresent? BTW , if you look at the iron pinacle (even in the picture provided by Mr Oak) you can clearly see the Arabic letters engraved in it.



You can claim all historians are distorting history but not Oak because his works suit your mental biasness. Otherwise no sane person would keep faith on a person who claims Westminister Abbe or Vatican was Hindu temple or Christianity came from Krishna Niti....
 

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