Swaminathan : India's poverty reduction better than China's

[TrueSpirit]

Go check world bank or UNDP stats. Or any independent assessment. China has the worst Gini and India the best.

Can anyone elaborate a bit on the bolded part above ?

 

[shiphone]

Go check world bank or UNDP stats. Or any independent assessment. China has the worst Gini and India the best. These are not as per GOI stats. Like I've said, I cant sit down to start educating bots.

simple...searching tools is right in your hands...and your silly comments and points are quite funny...
I thought most of us won't understand your definition about the Best and Worst...and the relation of poverty reduction and Gini index

 

[Energon]

Dynamism and openness to new ideas are important determinants of the "success" of a society, but it is also important to look at the impact a certain culture can have on political structures and order. Chinese Confucian culture is much more conducive to the creation of a powerful, centralized state than Indian culture, with its emphasis on kinship ties and endogamous social groups which operate independently of the state.

If we are to consider long term success as the final product then any one particular cultural attribute isn't indicative of anything.

For instance in this case, multiple factors (Confucianism just being one of them) have led to prolonged periods of rule under unipolar authoritarian regimes in China which in turn may have created an environment more conducive for centralized authoritarian form of governance. However that isn't necessarily a determinant of success. I concede that when one lives in a society as frustratingly chaotic as that in India, centralized rule and ostensible harmony seem very desirable. However global experience shows that proficient centralization of power can lead to both rapid success or cataclysmic failure depending on how events play out. China itself has been both beneficiary and victim to this phenomenon on numerous occasions. This is why I don't consider a particular cultural attribute to be a determinant of success or failure, but rather how a society exploits its attributes given their present circumstances.
Indian culture may be more geared toward kinship ties based on language, caste, creed what have you, however this does not mean a country of multiple groups cannot be equally successful. When various groups in a society have equal access to tools of social mobility it results in a high level of ingenuity, creativity and competition... all qualities often seen among Indians. Furthermore challenging unquestioned power of a centralized state often passed off as "for the good of the people" isn't a bad thing. The problem in India's case isn't culturally reinforced factionalism but rather systemic inequality which may have started with caste distinctions but has now been surreptitiously taken over by political interests (which have very little to do with culture). Just to go back to the topic of infrastructure, I too once believed that culture was a major factor in India's inability to launch large scale infrastructure projects akin to China's. However now I think that this has more to do with political interests in artificially preserving inequality (which would be undermined by access to state of the art infrastructure) than any deep seeded cultural aversion to standardized infrastructure. The same goes for land and labor reforms which are clearly needed for India to compete on the global forum.

Having said that we must also consider the nullifying effects of time upon critical cultural features. For thousands of years the Chinese may have had a culture highly primed for centralized control which has undoubtedly resulted in a period of rapid growth, however globalization and modern media tools are now threatening those values as successive generations become more self aware of individual rights and freedoms. The same goes for India, we already see in urban parts of India that the factors defining kinship have suddenly unraveled in the face of globalization after having been set in stone for eons. Now the biggest challenge is unseating a nefarious political class that empowers itself by artificially inflating the negative cultural aspects and instead exploiting the positive attributes of Indian culture to unleash growth through competition and creativity (as chaotic as it may be).

In the end success or failure comes down to the ability to withstand creative destruction regardless of the prevalent culture. If the Chinese establishment is unable to put aside their reservations and transform their power structure to become more inclusive they will be in trouble. Similarly the biggest threat facing India are all the groups of conservative hypocrites (mostly men) who want to "preserve the culture" at the expense of granting equality to minorities, women or anyone else who threatens their default position of power.

 

[trackwhack]

simple...searching tools is right in your hands...and your silly comments and points are quite funny...
I thought most of us won't understand your definition about the Best and Worst...and the relation of poverty reduction and Gini index

This is why I call you guys bots. Check my first post. Among the top 50 major economies of the world, China right now has the worst Gini, India the best. You just put up a map showing that. do you see any major economy in the map above with a better Gini Co-eff than India? No. Even illustrations are too difficult for you to comprehend, right?

Edit: I think I know what the problem is. This bot thinks the higher the Gini the better!!!

 

[shiphone]

LOL...some fool have barely understanding about the Gini Coefficient and are just ignoring those Sub-saharan countries are right at the same level with your nation(same color on the map)...and Yemen,and Pakistan...

and obviously India has not the Best so called Gini...even

Among the top 50 major economies of the world

as you claimed...there are long list ahead: the famous North European countries, ceterial Europe, UK ,France ,even the Greece in trouble...LOL..I really doubt your reading and understanding ability...

other funny fact is that the only superpower--USA's score...
---------------------
so called Gini Coefficient can't stand for your effort of the poverty reduction ...and it's well known that India has its own unique standard and definition of Proverty

 

[Compersion]

Got a question for the PRC comrades. Does PRC have a taxation system for individuals and companies. How are they taxed. Also does the PRC country have a budget and audit of its books. Are there any for state governments. When is that done and what's the status for this financial year. Many thanks.

 

[trackwhack]

LOL...some fool have barely understanding about the Gini Coefficient and are just ignoring those Sub-saharan countries are right at the same level with your nation(same color on the map)...and Yemen,and Pakistan...

and obviously India has not the Best so called Gini...even as you claimed...there are long list ahead: the famous North European countries, ceterial Europe, UK ,France ,even the Greece in trouble...LOL..I really doubt your reading and understanding ability...

other funny fact is that the only superpower--USA's score...
---------------------
so called Gini Coefficient can't stand for your effort of the poverty reduction ...and it's well known that India has its own unique standard and definition of Proverty

OK good job trying to cover your ignorance.
I did not make any comparison. Only responded to ignorant comments about income inequality. Read my first post before mouthing off BS. I am not a dolt to claim that China has more poverty. Its obvious how poor India's poor are. Like I said read what I posted.

And fact - China does have the worst gini among major economies. There are several papers that have made conservative estimates that chinas gini went past .6 as early as 2005. But dream on.

 

[shiphone]

LOL...another typical indian style claim....big mouth first and then keep denying ....quite pity indeed... watch your words please...

first...

China has the worst Gini and India the best.

then...

Among the top 50 major economies of the world, China right now has the worst Gini, India the best.

and then...

And fact - China does have the worst gini .

now, since you are no longer claiming the India's BEST ...LOL...let's check the fact of the WORST among major economies(TOP50 )

Singapore GDP rank: 36 Gini:47.8
Brazil GDP rank: 7 Gini:50.8
Mexico GDP rank: 14 Gini: 51.7
Thailand GDP rank: 32 Gini: 53.6
......
......
and
China GDP rank:2 Gini 47.4
USA GDP rank:1 Gini 45

------------------------------------

Go check world bank or UNDP stats. Or any independent assessment. China has the worst Gini and India the best.

when we quot the World bank data...then

China does have the worst gini among major economies. There are several papers that have made conservative estimates that chinas gini went past .6 as early as 2005.

LOL....brilliant show...

------------------------------------
to be honest, that above 'taxation system' question is quite funny indeed...and in this world, taxation system is the basic part for any mordern nation...please don't live in your so called superiority feeling.
It would be a book to help you to understand the taxation system in china...let's make it simple, since NEW China has reformed and openned up to this world for more than 30 years. so many Foreign Firms doing their business here, I really can't understand that you would ask such funny question here.

But...I would like to provide some link here...the official data this March

REPORT ON THE IMPLEMENTATION OF CENTRAL

AND LOCAL BUDGETS IN 2012 AND ON DRAFT

CENTRAL AND LOCAL BUDGETS FOR 2013

 

[nimo_cn]

sigh, Indians never learn their lessons.

Sent from my HUAWEI T8951 using Tapatalk 2

 

[TrueSpirit]

sigh, Indians never learn their lessons.

Sent from my HUAWEI T8951 using Tapatalk 2

Why don't you "teach" us some, nimo You must be so good at it.

 

[bose]

Why don't you "teach" us some, nimo You must be so good at it.

nimo_cn gets 50 cents for each posts in DFI !! no prizes for guessing who pays her...

 

[nimo_cn]

nimo_cn gets 50 cents for each posts in DFI !! no prizes for guessing who pays her...

The pay is much higher.

Sent from my HUAWEI T8951 using Tapatalk 2

 

[TrueSpirit]

Why don't you "teach" us some, nimo You must be so good at it.

The pay is much higher.

Sent from my HUAWEI T8951 using Tapatalk 2

What do you think about the idea @nimo_cn ?

 

[nimo_cn]

What do you think about the idea @nimo_cn ?

shiphone just taught you a lesson, but you people never listen.

do you still believe that India has the best gini index?

Sent from my HUAWEI T8951 using Tapatalk 2

 

[no smoking]

OK good job trying to cover your ignorance.
I did not make any comparison. Only responded to ignorant comments about income inequality.

Income inequality? India calculates its Gini based on consumption distribution while rest of the world (includes China) is using income distribution.

 

[Ray]

Income inequality? India calculates its Gini based on consumption distribution while rest of the world (includes China) is using income distribution.

You really feel that in china, all are affluent and happy?

Is this China?

No poverty?

No want?


Poverty Headcount Ratio (2008)[1]
Poverty Trend World Bank
Live less than $1.25 a day 13.1% (172 million)
Live less than $2 a day 29.8% (394 million)
Live less than $2.5 a day 39.9% (528 million)
Live less than $4 a day 62% (821 million)
Live less than $5 a day 71.6% (948 million)

income disparities have increased. The growing income inequality is illustrated most clearly by the differences in living standards between the urban, coastal areas and the rural, inland regions. There have also been increases in the inequality of health and education outcomes. Exact statistics are disputed, as there have been reports of China's underestimating the poverty rate.

http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/S1043-951X(01)00066-9

At the same time, I will say that it is ridiculous to compare India with China because the situation, environment, forms of government etc, etc are so diverse that it cannot be compared.

 

[trackwhack]

Income inequality? India calculates its Gini based on consumption distribution while rest of the world (includes China) is using income distribution.

These stats are compiled by independent bodies not GOI or CCP. But please, continue to live in lalaland.

 

[The Last Stand]

The pay is much higher.

Sent from my HUAWEI T8951 using Tapatalk 2

Was that sarcasm or the truth?

 

[nimo_cn]

Was that sarcasm or the truth?

it all depends on what you want to believe!

Sent from my HUAWEI T8951 using Tapatalk 2

 

[mikhail]

it all depends on what you want to believe!

Sent from my HUAWEI T8951 using Tapatalk 2

here in India,we always tend to believe what are being told to us by the free and independent media.on the other hand you guys believe only those things which are being propagated by the CCP as free and independent media is something which is totally alien to the chini people.sometimes i think about how do you people digest all those crappy propaganda which are being feed to you by the CCP!i mean don't you guys even ask yourselves about the truth behind all these sh*tty propaganda?