Surya ICBM

[nitesh]

I hav understood that surya is waste of time & i wil tell u the basic reason y we need surya

First, there is consensus among India's political parties on the need to enhance the country's missile defence capabilities. Experts say future warfare will be heavily dependent on missiles.

:emot15::emot15::emot15::emot15:

 

[Rahul92]

We are yet to induct Agni 2 operationally let alone a full fledged ICBM. This Surya news is mostly a fabrication by the media. Funny thing is the missile has a name even before it has been tested.

Even if it were true it will not happen in the next 10 years. We are far behind in technology to make it feasible now.

yeah in this i will agree with u


Given DRDO's track record, not many believe the surya ICBM project will meet the deadline.:angry_1:

For instance, for the last 20 years, DRDO has been building two types of anti-aircraft missiles -- Trishul and Akash.

According to the government's defence plans, these surface-to-air missiles were to have replaced the Russian-supplied OSA-AK and Kvadrat systems by the early 1990s. But the DRDO has been unable to meet the deadlines.

The Trishul project began in 1983. The original deadline was 1992.

DRDO has spent more than Rs 2.6 billion (Rs 260 crores) on the missile, but it is still undergoing trials.

THE INDIAN MISSILES

Name Type/propulsion Warhead Payload Range Status
Prithvi-1/ SS-150 Ballistic/ Single-stage/ Liquid-engine Conventional/ nuclear 1,000 kg 150 km Operational
Prithvi-2/ SS-250 Ballistic/ Single-stage/ Liquid-engine Conventional/ nuclear 500 kg 250 km Undergoing user trials
Dhanush/ Prithvi-3/ SS-350 Ballistic/ Single-stage/ Liquid-engine Conventional/ nuclear Undisclosed 350 km Undergoing flight tests
Agni Technology Demonstrator Ballistic/ Two-stage hybrid/ solid-motor/ Liquid-engine Nuclear 1,000 kg 1,200 km to 1,500 km Small number available to army
Agni-I Ballistic/ Single-stage/ Solid-motor Nuclear 1,000 kg 700 km to 800 km Undergoing flight tests
Agni-II Ballistic/ Two-stage/ Solid-motor Nuclear 1,000 kg 2,000 km to 2,500 km Completed flight tests
Agni-III Ballistic Nuclear Undisclosed 3,000 km to 4,000 km Flight tests expected this year
BrahMos/ PJ-10 Cruise/ Two-stage/ Solid-booster/ Liquid-sustainer engine Conventional 200 kg to 300 kg 280 km to 300 km Serial production to begin this year
Sagarika Class contested Conventional/nuclear Undisclosed Undisclosed Expected to be operational by 2010:emot180:

 

[nitesh]

yeah in this i will agree with u


Given DRDO's track record, not many believe the surya ICBM project will meet the deadline.:angry_1:

For instance, for the last 20 years, DRDO has been building two types of anti-aircraft missiles -- Trishul and Akash.

According to the government's defence plans, these surface-to-air missiles were to have replaced the Russian-supplied OSA-AK and Kvadrat systems by the early 1990s. But the DRDO has been unable to meet the deadlines.

The Trishul project began in 1983. The original deadline was 1992.

DRDO has spent more than Rs 2.6 billion (Rs 260 crores) on the missile, but it is still undergoing trials.

THE INDIAN MISSILES

Name Type/propulsion Warhead Payload Range Status
Prithvi-1/ SS-150 Ballistic/ Single-stage/ Liquid-engine Conventional/ nuclear 1,000 kg 150 km Operational
Prithvi-2/ SS-250 Ballistic/ Single-stage/ Liquid-engine Conventional/ nuclear 500 kg 250 km Undergoing user trials
Dhanush/ Prithvi-3/ SS-350 Ballistic/ Single-stage/ Liquid-engine Conventional/ nuclear Undisclosed 350 km Undergoing flight tests
Agni Technology Demonstrator Ballistic/ Two-stage hybrid/ solid-motor/ Liquid-engine Nuclear 1,000 kg 1,200 km to 1,500 km Small number available to army
Agni-I Ballistic/ Single-stage/ Solid-motor Nuclear 1,000 kg 700 km to 800 km Undergoing flight tests
Agni-II Ballistic/ Two-stage/ Solid-motor Nuclear 1,000 kg 2,000 km to 2,500 km Completed flight tests
Agni-III Ballistic Nuclear Undisclosed 3,000 km to 4,000 km Flight tests expected this year
BrahMos/ PJ-10 Cruise/ Two-stage/ Solid-booster/ Liquid-sustainer engine Conventional 200 kg to 300 kg 280 km to 300 km Serial production to begin this year
Sagarika Class contested Conventional/nuclear Undisclosed Undisclosed Expected to be operational by 2010:emot180:

This post proves where this thing is heading. Moving the thread to member's corner.

 

[Rahul92]

I HAVE UNDERSTOOD THAT U ALL R FEARED THAT USA MAY CHANGE ITS ATTITUDE .BUT MOST OF THEM DON'T KNOW THAT USA DOESN'T MIND OR WE CAN SAY INDIRECTLY SUPPORTS THE ICBM PROJECT(u will understand just by looking into the policy)

U.S. Missile Nonproliferation Policy and India's Path to an ICBM Capability:happy_8::happy_8::happy_8:

Richard Speier

The path to India's ICBM capability has spanned more than four decades and is largely based on space-launch vehicle technology obtained from foreign sources. The United States has taken measures over the last several decades to restrict missile proliferation, but the policies took effect only after India's missile program had begun. Moreover, U.S. nonproliferation policy has also not been consistently applied, particularly in India's case. Indeed, the relationship between space launch vehicles and missile proliferation seems to have been obscured.

1960s
NASA trains Indian scientists at Wallops Island, Virginia, in sounding rockets and provides Nike-Apache sounding rockets to India. France, the United Kingdom, and the Soviet Union also supply sounding rockets.

1963-1964
A. P. J. Abdul Kalam, an Indian engineer, works at Wallops Island, where the Scout space-launch vehicle (an adaptation of Minuteman ICBM solid-fuel rocket technology) is flown.

1965
Following Kalam's return to India, the Indian Atomic Energy Commission requests U.S. assistance with the Scout, and NASA provides unclassified reports.

1969-1970
U.S. firms supply equipment for the Solid Propellant Space Booster Plant at Sriharikota.

1970s

Kalam becomes head of the Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO), in charge of developing space launch vehicles. During the same time period, the United States begins to consider a broad policy against missile proliferation.

May 1974

India conducts a "peaceful nuclear explosion."

1980s

The United States and its six economic sum mit partners secretly negotiate the Missile Technology Control Regime (MTCR). After one and a half years of difficult negotiations on the question of space launch vehicles, all partners agree that they must be treated as restrictively as ballistic missiles because their hardware, technology, and production facilities are interchangeable. The MTCR is informally implemented in 1985 and is publicly announced in 1987.

July 1980
India launches its first satellite with the SLV-3 rocket, a close copy of the NASA Scout.

February 1982

Kalam becomes head of the Defense Research and Development Organisation (DRDO), in charge of adapting space-launch vehicle technology to ballistic missiles.

May 1989
India launches its first Agni "technology dem onstrator" surface-to-surface missile. The Agni's first stage is essentially the first stage of the SLV-3. Later, the Agni becomes a family of three short- to intermediate-range ballistic missiles.

1990s

1990
The United States enacts a sanctions law against missile proliferation. Two weeks later, the Soviet Union agrees to supply India with cryogenic upper-stage rockets and technology, and the two parties become the first countries sanctioned under the new U.S. law.

1993
The United States lifts sanctions on Russia after Moscow agrees to limit the transfer to a small number of rocket engines and not production technology.

1994

India launches the Polar Space Launch Ve hicle (PSLV). Stages 1 and 3 are 2.8-meter-diameter solid-fuel rockets. Stages 2 and 4 are liquid-fuel Vikas engines derived from 1980s French technology transfers.

The earliest reported date for when the Surya ICBM program, using PSLV technology, is said to have been officially authorized. However, India's space and missile en gineers, if not the "official" Indian government, had opened the option much earlier.

May 1998

India tests nuclear weapons after decades of protesting that its nuclear program was exclusively peaceful. The United States imposes broad sanctions on nuclear- and missile/space-related transfers.

April 1999
India launches the Agni II, an extended range missile that tests re-entry vehicle "technology [that] can be integrated with the PSLV programme to create an ICBM" according to a defense ministry official.

Kalam quoted in Jane's Defence Weekly that he wants to "neutralise" the "stranglehold" some nations have through the MTCR, which had tried but failed to "throttle" India's missile program. "I would like to devalue missiles by selling the technology to many nations and break their stranglehold."

May 1999
Defense News cites DRDO officials as stating that the Surya is under development.

November 1999
India 's minister of state for defense (and former head of DRDO), Bachi Singh Rawat, says India is developing an ICBM known as Surya that would "have a range of up to" 5,000 kilometers. A little more than two weeks later, Rawat is reportedly stripped of his portfolio because of his disclosure.

2000s

April 2001
Khrunichev State Space Science and Production Center announces that it will supply five more cryogenic upper stages to India within the next three years.

September 2001

The United States lifts many of the technology sanctions it imposed in 1998. Subsequently, Prime Minister Atal Bihari Vajpayee visits the United States amid agreement to broaden the technology dialogue.

December 2001
A U.S. National Intelligence Estimate states, " India could convert its polar space launch vehicle into an ICBM within a year or two of a decision to do so."[15]

July 2002

Kalam becomes president of India.

September 2002
The United States tells India it will not object to India launching foreign satellites as long as they do not contain U.S.-origin components.[16]

April 2003
The last mention of India as a proliferator or a supplier to proliferators is made in the director of central intelligence's unclassified semi-annual report to Congress on the acquisition of weapons of mass destruction.

January 2004
President George W. Bush agrees to expand cooperation with India in "civilian space programs" but not explicitly to cooperate with space launches. This measure is part of a bilateral initiative dubbed "Next Steps in Strategic Partnership."

October 2004
A Russian Academy of Sciences deputy direc tor reportedly states that India is planning to increase the range of the Agni missile to 5,000 kilometers and to design the Surya ICBM with a range of 8,000-12,000 kilometers.

July 2005
Bush agrees to cooperate with India on "satellite navigation and launch," and Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh agrees to "adherence to Missile Technology Control Regime...guidelines."

August 2005
According to Indian Ministry of Defense sources, there are plans to use the nonc ryogenic Vikas stage for the Surya and to have the missile deliver a 2.5-3.5-metric-ton payload with two or three warheads with explosive yields of 15-20 kilotons.

 

[Yusuf]

Great, then we can go start testing our thermonukes as well as the US does not mind proliferation. Without them, ICBMs are duds.

 

[Rahul92]

Thanks that u have understood what i meant to say

 

[Yusuf]

Stop being a jerk here. I think you need to read up on quite to few things before you come up with your wishlist of weapons. That the admin has moved this thread to the members corner usually reserved for jokes etc shows what your posts regarding this topic means.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

The new Israeli Russian military pact provides a great opportunity for India and the other 2 nations to jointly develop missiles and possibly have Israel do the testing,a golden opportunity.

 

[nrj]

I still don't get "How Surya will change India's fate forever??"

If you tell me that NREGA over 2-3 terms will change India's fate forever, then it can be convincing but Project Surya changing India's fate is certainly fan-boy stuff dealing less with practicality.

 

[Rahul92]

Wat i mean by fate is the view of world towards India lik some European or say Australia or racist countries will know the power of India & give respect

 

[LETHALFORCE]

Better to have the world guessing for long as possible if there is a Surya program confirming either way is not in our National interest at this point in time.

 

[Yusuf]

Do you know how much respect India will get when it reaches 5 trillion dollars economy?

 

[neo29]

Once we make Surya ICBM anywhere above 8000 to 10000 km range, India can the look at improving and upgrading its current inventory of missiles in terms of stealth etc. Once an ICBM is built we need not make any more long range missiles. The world is small enough and such missiles can reach anywhere.

After China created ICBM it started working on ASAT and Anti Ship missiles. That was their turning point and so will Surya be ours.

 

[pmaitra]

see no country ever used a icbm(correct me if i am wrong) after they are introduced into their arsenal ..so i dont see the need-

We will probably and hopefully not have the need to use them; however, it is not bad to have a small arsenal of ICBMs. At most, they can be reused as satellite launch vehicles. If I am not mistaken, some of the satellites of the Iridium Project were launched using disarmed Soviet Military Rockets. I don't think they will be a waste of money.

 

[Yusuf]

We will probably and hopefully not have the need to use them; however, it is not bad to have a small arsenal of ICBMs. At most, they can be reused as satellite launch vehicles. If I am not mistaken, some of the satellites of the Iridium Project were launched using disarmed Soviet Military Rockets. I don't think they will be a waste of money.

Conversely, it the need arises then, we can modify some of our satellite launch vehicles into ICBMs. ISRO was kept on the blacklist by the US for precisely this reason.

 

[EagleOne]

We will probably and hopefully not have the need to use them; however, it is not bad to have a small arsenal of ICBMs. At most, they can be reused as satellite launch vehicles. If I am not mistaken, some of the satellites of the Iridium Project were launched using disarmed Soviet Military Rockets. I don't think they will be a waste of money.

we are not in a race as soviet at coldwar era but the problem is we need to have our agni's in full operational .properly test with different trajectories and few nights test with out failures ...
then we develop the delivery mechanism then that are at present .and good no of test of ABM's..these are primary requirement then we can go for a icbm with 10000km range

 

[shuvo@y2k10]

the surya programme is a very impotant step for india's future global power projection and it must be pursued in parallel with future variants of agni .yes i agree no country has ever used an icbm but these are strategic missiles built for deterence purposes.god forbid if we are faced with a situation similar to iraq in 2003 then what should we do.
yes i feel that surya project must be kept under "official"secrecy until it is flight tested like the arihant and
in the meanwhile we must perfect thew mirv which can be installed in any of our present missile inventory. also once produced drdo can test surya with any other name(like repeated testing of agni 2 "variants" even after it is inducted).

 

[Yusuf]

God forbid we face a situation like Iraq? Are you nuts?? An economy marching towards 2 trillion, defence purchases being sought after what an insane comparison, India with Iraq. This is demeaning to say the least.

 

[Rahul92]

Conversely, it the need arises then, we can modify some of our satellite launch vehicles into ICBMs. ISRO was kept on the blacklist by the US for precisely this reason.

then why NASA keeps funding Isro

 

[keshtopatel]

then why NASA keeps funding Isro

Nasa co-operates with Isro (mutual interest) but does not give it millions of dollars.........Nasa is already walking a tight rope on fiscal issue, they have cut several projects.

More, both Isro and DRDO continue to languish on a dreaded US blacklist...... Pokhran clouds have not yet dissipated.