Surge in anti-China sentiment in Hong Kong

Ray

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Well, Ray, obviously you have misunderstanding what is a lanaguage and what is the dialect.
Mandrin and Cantoness are the same lanaguage and different dialect. For myself, I barely understand what those hongongness speak, but I can fully understand what they write without any specific training.

This reporter didn't proved anything except a fact - after 150 years colonial history, Hongkong and mainland do have many differences to overcome.

The resaon that INDIANS don't believe the chinese posters is that you guys never planned to accept any truth which doesn't suit you. How many chinese posters have been labelled with "CCP propoganda" or "brainwashed" after you cannot prove their opinions to be wrong.

Ray, you are a professional military officer, but you are not china-problem expert. You have a little bit knowledge about china, but you don't have enough to make any reasonable judgement. It is better for you start listen first instead of rush into your own judgement.
Script maybe the same, but it does not mean the language is the same or the dialect is the same.

To wit, most languages of India are drawn from Sanskrit. Further, the Devnagiri script is used by many languages of India. Yet they are different languages. Can we also propagate the falsehood that all languages of India are the same because they have the roots in Sanskrit and some languages are dialects of Hindi since they follow the Devnagiri script?

Are all European languages the same, just because they have the Roman script? Or are all languages have the Cyrillic script the same language?

Thus, the contention such because the script is the same and so it is the same language but different dialects is ridiculous! And are mutually unintelligible!

One cannot get more ridiculous than that!

But then go telling the Chinese that who have been assimilated by the Hans to belief in such fairy tales that defy logic!

This is such a rudimentary fact that I am surprised as to why the Chinese go insisting in a falsehood.

However, there is the explanation why the Chinese go livid when historically it is put before them that China was never one, but made one through forcible implantation of the Han cultural arrogance!

The explanation is that the Chinese propaganda calls the different languages of China as 'dialect' since it helps to propagate the 'one China' theory that is dear to them. It is dear to them since China historically was very averse to any recognition of having people in the physical contours of China calling themselves anything but Hans!!

It is another interesting observation that being a military officer one knows nothing of a country not visited.

But then how does one know who has visited and who has not?

One can listen and learn, but then hogwash and tripe?
 
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Ray

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Ray, do you even speak Cantonese?

Well, I do. For the very basic, Cantonese uses exact same set of written language as Mandarin. It is actually closer to ancient tongue of Chinese language because it include 浊音(a more muddy sound). If you did some more research, you will find out that the region is conquer during Qin Dynasty that is 2000 years ago. Since its greater distance from nomadic group in the north, its tongue is preserved. It even use many ancient form of word such as 調羹 for spoon. Again, it is a region that is conquer for over 2000 yrs. The issue should be settled, the founding father of Republic of China, regarded as father of modern China(國父) by both ROC and PRC, 孫中山 Sun yat sen, are from Guangdong, and speak Cantonese.
I hope the above explanation to No Smoking on how using the same script does not mean the same language, but different dialects!

It is true that by conquering parts which constitute modern China, the Han culture was forced on those conquered, who were called 'raw barbarians' till the accepted the Han culture. When the accepted subjugation, they were called 'cooked barbarians'.

What difference does it make as to who the founding fathers of China were?



In so far as the historical reasons, it maybe true.
 

Ray

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To be honest, I am not sure. But I am sure I won't go to India.
You will be doing a favour not only to India, but humanity in general.

Thank you for being so thoughtful!

Yes, I did.

India, though being a shithole, has something good left in it and we managed to see that.
Coming from those who do not spare any part of anything they eat or any item in the world, be it animal or vegetable, , I am not surprised that you find the anus to be a gastronomical delight!

On the issue of 'we have managed to see, I wonder if you have!

You comment reminds me of the Beatles' song 'Tell me what you see'!


Lyrics: Open up your eyes now, tell me what you see.
 
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mylegend

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Script maybe the same, but it does not mean the language is the same or the dialect is the same.

To wit, most languages of India are drawn from Sanskrit. Further, the Devnagiri script is used by many languages of India. Yet they are different languages. Can we also propagate the falsehood that all languages of India are the same because they have the roots in Sanskrit and some languages are dialects of Hindi since they follow the Devnagiri script?

Are all European languages the same, just because they have the Roman script? Or are all languages have the Cyrillic script the same language?

Thus, the contention such because the script is the same and so it is the same language but different dialects is ridiculous! And are mutually unintelligible!

One cannot get more ridiculous than that!

But then go telling the Chinese that who have been assimilated by the Hans to belief in such fairy tales that defy logic!

This is such a rudimentary fact that I am surprised as to why the Chinese go insisting in a falsehood.

However, there is the explanation why the Chinese go livid when historically it is put before them that China was never one, but made one through forcible implantation of the Han cultural arrogance!

The explanation is that the Chinese propaganda calls the different languages of China as 'dialect' since it helps to propagate the 'one China' theory that is dear to them. It is dear to them since China historically was very averse to any recognition of having people in the physical contours of China calling themselves anything but Hans!!

It is another interesting observation that being a military officer one knows nothing of a country not visited.

But then how does one know who has visited and who has not?

One can listen and learn, but then hogwash and tripe?
The script is more than just similar, it is exactly the same. I mean exactly. Almost without a difference in formal writing language. I do not believe Italian can read Spanish. Cantonese and Mandarin's use exactly same set of characters(mind you Chinese is not phonetic like Latin).Cantonese and Mandarin is use exactly the same writing, period. I'm sure all the Indian local language is not exactly the same in writing(correct me if I am wrong).
 

Ray

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The script is more than just similar, it is exactly the same. I mean exactly. Almost without a difference in formal writing language. I do not believe Italian can read Spanish. Cantonese and Mandarin's use exactly same set of characters(mind you Chinese is not phonetic like Latin).Cantonese and Mandarin is use exactly the same writing, period. I'm sure all the Indian local language is not exactly the same in writing(correct me if I am wrong).
I can read Italian, Spanish, French, Portuguese, Romanian, Catalan. The use the Latin script. But can I understand the languages?

All these languages borrowed the Latin alphabet, but some use old Norse runic symbols for letters not supplied by the Latin alphabet. English, German, Dutch, Flemish, Norwegian, Swedish, Danish. But can I understand the languages?

Slavic European languages either use the Latin alphabet, like English, or the Cyrillic alphabet, like in Russian. I know Russian. I can read Ukrainian, Polish, Czech, Serbo-Crotian, Bulgarian, Slovanian. But can I understand the languagtes?

Are all these languages dialect of Latin?

Most Indian Languages uses Devnagiri script without even the technical changes in script that is there in the European languages, but under no circumstance are they the same!

Chinese have more complication that other languages of the world since it is different tones!
 
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Ray

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Han characters are a common feature of written Chinese (hanzi), Japanese (kanji), Korean (hanja), and—at least historically—other East and Southeast Asian languages. (Vietnamese Hán Tá»± and Chữ Nôm.)

Are these therefore dialects of Chinese?

Maybe if they are captured by China, then the official line would be that they are dialects of Chinese and you all will be parroting the same!
 
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mylegend

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I can read Italian, Spanish, French, Portuguese, Romanian, Catalan. The use the Latin script. But can I understand?

All these languages borrowed the Latin alphabet, but some use old Norse runic symbols for letters not supplied by the Latin alphabet. English Great
German, Dutch, Flemish, Norwegian, Swedish, Danish,

Slavic European languages either use the Latin alphabet, like English, or the Cyrillic alphabet, like in Russian. I know Russian. I can read Ukrainian, Polish, Czech, Serbo-Crotian, Bulgarian, Slovanian. But can I understand?

Are all these languages dialect of Latin?

Most Indian Languages uses Devnagiri script without even the technical changes in script that is there in the European languages, but under no circumstance are they the same!

Chinese have more complication that other languages of the world since it is different tones!
What I mean is the written language is the same to a point that if you can read Chinese, no matter what dialect you speak, you can read and write Chinese regardless of the provincial origins.

Latin based language are all different, and one need to learn another language through self thought or courses, you do not need to do that for Chinese.
 
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Ray

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But back to the subject.

The Hong Kong chaps have had greater freedom in their lifestyle that the Mainland Chinese and have a greater sense of civic sense.

Thus, they find the Mainlander, though richer, still downright crude and more like village bumpkins!

Hence, all the problems!
 

mylegend

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But back to the subject.

The Hong Kong chaps have had greater freedom in their lifestyle that the Mainland Chinese and have a greater sense of civic sense.

Thus, they find the Mainlander, though richer, still downright crude and more like village bumpkins!

Hence, all the problems!
Well, Hong Kong resident are way wealthier than mainlander on average... It is true they enjoy much greater freedom than mainlander. They do have much greater civic sense. However, the fault lies on the CCP not the people who live in mainland and definitely not on the civilization.

Much of Chinese Mainlander Netizen know little about history complains about Chinese government collect no taxes from Hong Kong and sending them aid every years. However, Businessman in HongKong invested the much needed capital in the beginning of the market reform led by Chairman Deng. Without those capital, the rise of China will not be as smooth as it was.
 
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Ray

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Cantonese, or Standard Cantonese, is a language that originated in the vicinity of Canton (i.e. Guangzhou) in southern China, and is often regarded as the prestige dialect of Yue Chinese.

In mainland China, it is a lingua franca in Guangdong Province and some neighbouring areas, such as the eastern part of Guangxi Province. Outside mainland China, it is spoken by the majority population of Hong Kong and Macau in everyday life. It is also spoken by overseas Chinese communities in Southeast Asia, the United States, Canada, Peru, Cuba, Panama, Australia, and New Zealand, as well as part of Europe, and is the most widely spoken Chinese dialect in the world.

While the term "Cantonese" refers narrowly to the prestige dialect described in this article, it is often used in a broader sense for the entire Yue branch of Chinese, including related dialects such as Taishanese.

The Cantonese language is also viewed as part of the cultural identity for the native speakers across large swathes of southern China, Hong Kong and Macau. Although Cantonese shares much vocabulary with Mandarin Chinese, the two languages are not mutually intelligible largely because of pronunciation and grammatical differences. Sentence structure, in particular the placement of the verb, sometimes differs between the two languages. The use of vocabulary in Cantonese also tends to have more historic roots. The most notable difference between Cantonese and Mandarin is how the spoken word is written; with Mandarin the spoken word is written as such, where with Cantonese there may not be a direct written word matching what was said. Because of this difference, it is often said that Cantonese is "slang" while Mandarin is "proper" Chinese.

In English, the term "Cantonese" is ambiguous. Cantonese proper is the language native to the city of Canton, which is the traditional English name of Guangzhou, and later brought to Hong Kong and Macau;[citation needed] this narrow sense may be specified as "Canton language" or "Guangzhou language" in English.

However, "Cantonese" may also refer to the primary branch of Cantonese which contains Cantonese proper as well as Taishanese and Gaoyang; this broader usage may be specified as "Yue" (粤). In this article, "Cantonese" is used for Cantonese proper.

Customarily, speakers call their language "Guangzhou Prefecture speech" (Guǎngzhōu huà, 广州话 or 廣州話). In Guangdong province people also call it "Provincial Capital speech". In Hong Kong and Macau, people usually call it "Canton speech" (廣東話). Outside of Guangzhou, people also call it "Baak Waa" (plain speech) (白話).

Due to its status as a prestige dialect, it is often called "Standard Cantonese" (simplified Chinese: 标准粤语; traditional Chinese: 標準粵語; Jyutping: biu1zeon2 jyut6jyu5; Guangdong Romanization:Biu1 zên2 yud6 yu5). (With simplified tone markers: biu zeon/ jyut_ jyu= / biu zên/ yud_ yu=).
 

Ray

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The Differences in the Languages Themselves

People who can understand only either Mandarin or Cantonese can communicate with each other by writing because they use the same written characters with a few exceptions. The Chinese words were united by Emporer Qin Shihuang around 221B.C. (more than 2220 years ago) in China. But the colloquial Cantonese written down in words is sometimes hard to understand for Mandarin speaking people because Cantonese use lots of different expressions in their daily oral Cantonese. This is why Taiwanese and other Mandarin speaking people prefer World Journal to Singtao. Both newpapers are the most popular daily Chinese newspapers in the United States and Canada while Singtao has more Cantonese readers and World Journal more Mandarin speaking readers.

The pronunciation of the two are totally different. Hong Kong people humorously call it "the chicken talking to the duck" — they cannot understand each other. Mandarin has four tones and Cantonese has more than six. The two are both tonal languages (different tones has different meanings for the same sound) and they also have different vowels and consonants too.
 

Ray

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Could the 'chicken talking to a duck' be the cause of the problem too?

The angst that they stick to Cantonese and not talk Mandarin!
 

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