Sukhoi Su 30MKI

[binayak95]

What makes you say that? Care to elaborate?

umm, its Obvious!!?? And its quite openly stated as a fact by Russian/Indian/Western sources ad nauseum?

 

[Raj Malhotra]

I think Su-30MKI equipped with terrain follow Radar would be a good replacement for Jaguars. Rather than spending too much money over upgrading Jaguar we should induct additional Sukhoi
First jaguars are now getting almost 30 + years old and we need to retire these old platforms

 

[armyofhind]

umm, its Obvious!!?? And its quite openly stated as a fact by Russian/Indian/Western sources ad nauseum?

Su-30MKI Airframe is based off of the Su-27. Even there it has significant changes in the canards and TVC nozzles.

Apart from that, the FBW software, Mission Computer, Cockpit display systems, Radar programmes and modes, HUD, HMS, EW suite, RWR system, MAWS... and a whole lot of other components are entirely different.

So it would only be okay to say that the two aircraft LOOK the same. To say that they are the same aircraft is plain wrong.

Hence, my question sir.

 

[Enquirer]

Doesn't make the Su-30MKI any less potent, while it is true that the Su-27 design is dated, the avionics, sensor suite, weapons package isn't.

The Su-30MKI might quite easily develop sortie rate issues with a prolonged war -- or it might not, given what one hears of IAF's extreme emphasis on spare hubs and quick turn arounds - something that was tested during Gagan Shakti and which has passed scrutiny.

Your points about Russian/Soviet aircraft are taken well, but you forget that the IAF is an air force that operates closely on British/Western lines of training.

We have had encountered the issues that you mention and have found ways to overcome them.

India got the Su-30MKI at a major discount because we have funded its development - same with the MiG-29Ks, T-90s, Talwar class frigates.

I don't want to get into an argument about the potency of Su-30MKI, which I do believe is a decent aircraft for IAF.

My point was specifically with regard to the sortie rates and that Rafale scores in a big way over Su-30MKI.

Sukhoi factory was in Yeltsin's home constituency. He personally begged Narasimha Rao to place the orders so he can get re-elected. Given his pro-India stance, India had much to gain to see Yeltsin back in power.india, in fact, went ahead and paid a significant amount of money in advance to help prop up Yeltsin; in return the India got a good deal. The only issue being HAL makes them at a much higher price than having to buy them off the shelf (but that's a different topic altogether)

 

[Enquirer]

Su-30MKI Airframe is based off of the Su-27. Even there it has significant changes in the canards and TVC nozzles.

Apart from that, the FBW software, Mission Computer, Cockpit display systems, Radar programmes and modes, HUD, HMS, EW suite, RWR system, MAWS... and a whole lot of other components are entirely different.

So it would only be okay to say that the two aircraft LOOK the same. To say that they are the same aircraft is plain wrong.

Hence, my question sir.

It's true that Su-30MKI has a major upgrade in avionics package. Essentially Su-27 was turned into an multi-role aircraft. But it's the same class of aircraft as Su-27 - essentially a 70s airframe, as such bogged with similar legacy issues.

 

[binayak95]

Su-30MKI Airframe is based off of the Su-27. Even there it has significant changes in the canards and TVC nozzles.

Apart from that, the FBW software, Mission Computer, Cockpit display systems, Radar programmes and modes, HUD, HMS, EW suite, RWR system, MAWS... and a whole lot of other components are entirely different.

So it would only be okay to say that the two aircraft LOOK the same. To say that they are the same aircraft is plain wrong.

Hence, my question sir.

Who said that they are the same aircraft? Its a derivative, the Russians always go for an evolutionary concept on a proven airframe for several years before bringing in completely new designs.

 

[binayak95]

It's true that Su-30MKI has a major upgrade in avionics package. Essentially Su-27 was turned into an multi-role aircraft. But it's the same class of aircraft as Su-27 - essentially a 70s airframe, as such bogged with similar legacy issues.

Agreed partially. But don't assume that the Su-27/30 production in Russia is the same in India, there are some major differences - including but not limited to a higher use of composites, better titanium alloys and others that will remain unstated.

 

[Enquirer]

Agreed partially. But don't assume that the Su-27/30 production in Russia is the same in India, there are some major differences - including but not limited to a higher use of composites, better titanium alloys and others that will remain unstated.

HAHA.
You're saying HAL innovated independently to add in composites & titanium into the airframe??
You cannot just replace a part with another material - even if it was just a simple rod. Firstly there's an issue with the violation of IPR.
Secondly, there's a whole science behind how dissimilar materials behave (the new (composite or titanium) material will make contact with the rest of the body, right? Sukhoi will not guarantee how the physics/chemistry of contact with the of rest of the airframe would be affected.

 

[arya]

HAHA.
You're saying HAL innovated independently to add in composites & titanium into the airframe??
You cannot just replace a part with another material - even if it was just a simple rod. Firstly there's an issue with the violation of IPR.
Secondly, there's a whole science behind how dissimilar materials behave (the new (composite or titanium) material will make contact with the rest of the body, right? Sukhoi will not guarantee how the physics/chemistry of contact with the of rest of the airframe would be affected.

Yes sir its right Till now HAL performance is poor but dont underestimate any one .

 

[arya]

SU30 MKI up gradation is only fruitful when we change its engine . i thnk we should ask Russia for better engine then su35 .

I dont know if & but i just want result

 

[Willy3]

Mr. @Enquirer forget that MKI isn't just an Su 27 upgrade, it's a complete different development program funded by India .we get great deal of benefit from Su 37 program, same father of Su 35.
Ruskies from start was agreed with our various demand of using foreign components and newer stuff like composite etc .
Su 30mki is revolutionary aircraft which not only ceatec great future market for Su 30 jets, but also gives Russia 30SM too...but biggest contribution might be saving whole Su 30 line of jet .

 

[Enquirer]

Guys, No need to get emotional about Su-30MKI. It's a good aircraft, it serves India's needs. But it has it's short comings - the reason why IAF has been reluctant to add more of it.
Super Sukhoi upgrade would be great - a mix of Indian and Russian avionics.

With $6-$7 billion tag associated with the upgrade, I would only wish that India's willing to pay around $300 to 500 million (just a ballpark figure) to Sukhoi to study & fix the design flaws that would make it more available (if it's fixable that is)

 

[binayak95]

HAHA.
You're saying HAL innovated independently to add in composites & titanium into the airframe??
You cannot just replace a part with another material - even if it was just a simple rod. Firstly there's an issue with the violation of IPR.
Secondly, there's a whole science behind how dissimilar materials behave (the new (composite or titanium) material will make contact with the rest of the body, right? Sukhoi will not guarantee how the physics/chemistry of contact with the of rest of the airframe would be affected.

Buddy, Su-30MKI program has a very complicated development phase from Sukhoi's side. We funded it completely, yes, but the tech developed is beyond the traditional Su-27 package; which is why the Russians themselves built some SU-30SMs for their RuAF, same body, inferior avionics and sensor suite (for the most part). And yeah, HAL did zilch but built the aircraft to Russian design, but the design was not the Su-27++

 

[Enquirer]

Buddy, Su-30MKI program has a very complicated development phase from Sukhoi's side. We funded it completely, yes, but the tech developed is beyond the traditional Su-27 package; which is why the Russians themselves built some SU-30SMs for their RuAF, same body, inferior avionics and sensor suite (for the most part). And yeah, HAL did zilch but built the aircraft to Russian design, but the design was not the Su-27++

We're just going down a rabbit hole here.
India did fund Su-30MKI development. Primarily because India wanted a multi-role aircraft which Su-27 wasn't (Su-27 was an air superiority aircraft). As such modifications were made to the platform to morph it into a multi-role aircraft (support for ground attack)!!

There's a reason why Russia never inducted Su-30 into their Airforce, because they already had large number of aircraft into specialized roles(Su-27 & Su-25). Su-30MKI brought in elements of ground attack aircraft (Su-25) into Su-27!

 

[arya]

Guys what the hell we are talking . we should not talk it is drives from that or that one . we should talk about future not past .

Yes Govt can look 40+ SU 30 mki fighter planes for up gratadtion but we should talk what features should be include . what will be new engine & missile . but many many post are talking about past which is zero value for us .

We should talk to present & future . we should talk about engine & new air to air missile .

 

[Enquirer]

Guys what the hell we are talking . we should not talk it is drives from that or that one . we should talk about future not past .

Yes Govt can look 40+ SU 30 mki fighter planes for up gratadtion but we should talk what features should be include . what will be new engine & missile . but many many post are talking about past which is zero value for us .

We should talk to present & future . we should talk about engine & new air to air missile .

It's not 40 aircraft for upgradation. The entire fleet of 272 aircraft will be upgraded!
The upgrade package is pretty much set:
AESA radar,AL41 engines & Improved IRST from Russia.
Jammer,MAWS/RWR & MFDs from DRDO/HAL.

 

[arya]

It's not 40 aircraft for upgradation. The entire fleet of 272 aircraft will be upgraded!
The upgrade package is pretty much set:
AESA radar,AL41 engines & Improved IRST from Russia.
Jammer,MAWS/RWR & MFDs from DRDO/HAL.

Thank now i hope all member will talk about future & present and will not go history unless it is very very important .
Can we ask russia much better engine then AL41 & Air to air missile with high speed & more range.

SU30 MKI should be more fast then su35S and more capable .

 

[Enquirer]

Thank now i hope all member will talk about future & present and will not go history unless it is very very important .
Can we ask russia much better engine then AL41 & Air to air missile with high speed & more range.

SU30 MKI should be more fast then su35S and more capable .

There is no better engine than AL41 at this point in time. The Izdeliye 30 engine meant for Su-57 is still in development!

(that said, members should be free to discuss any aspect of the aircraft without intimidation. Especially those aspects of the aircraft that still imperil it's ops)

 

[Craigs]

Perhaps.

Think out of the box. The Russians have already stuck a mini nuclear reactor in a cruise missile. Why can't we do the same in an aircraft? No more battery-kattery.

 

[Enquirer]

Think out of the box. The Russians have already stuck a mini nuclear reactor in a cruise missile. Why can't we do the same in an aircraft? No more battery-kattery.

That's just a slow burn nuclear sphere (not a reactor) that heats up air and blows it in the rear.
Not sure any nuclear reactor has been miniaturized and made safe enough to be put on a manned-aircraft.
That said, not sure if it can rapidly charge a capacitor bank to be able to power the DEWs.
The science is there, but the engineering will take several more decades.